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Hercynian
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Post Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 28, 2010 12:44
...no disagreement here at CoE, right? We've all got our lists of what we'd like to see changed or improved upon. I'm a big woodsman, so I'd like to see some really quality old-growth tree kingdoms used. That was my main beef with Jackson's films: They were hit-and-miss with the whole forest business.

Mood also was not really consistent with Jackson. The LotR books create mood like sun makes burnt. For example, the Lothlorien scenes were sometimes okay, but if they would have spent just a minute or so longer getting through the forest, they would have created so much more depth and mood and mystery to the place.

Well, I could go on for pages and pages, but, yes, it's time for somebody to haul some money out of a few countries' treasuries and start making a remake. Alfonzo Cuaron should direct, BTW.
Aegor
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 28, 2010 03:09
Err... no.

(you seriously believe that LotR should have a remake now? While the Hobbit is in pre-production? While it's been only 10 years since the movies were made and nothing better has been filmed in the meantime?)
Nagzz
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 28, 2010 03:48
Alfonso Cuaron directed Harry Potter & the Prisoner of Azkaban - and, as compared to the book, it wasn't particularly good. The LOTR movies are amazing as they are. Sure, they missed out stuff, even some major stuff like the Scouring of the Shire, but personally I thought they were awesome.
glamdring22
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 29, 2010 07:05
The LOTR movies are amazing as they are. Sure, they missed out stuff, even some major stuff like the Scouring of the Shire, but personally I thought they were awesome.


I agree with Nagzz
Personally I thiink that P.J captured the essence of LOTR in the movies. (Not to say that I didn't miss what he left out...perhaps making a super-extended edition of LOTR and just adding in the imortant scenes he left out )
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 29, 2010 08:19
As I've said before on an extremely similar thread, I think it's far too early to remake the live-action films - wait a decade or two and, yeah, maybe, but not yet. However, an animated remake would interest me, as long as Disney didn't get their sequel-mad hands on it. (Oh, can you imagine? Think of what they might do to Gollum for one thing.) Dreamworks might be okay though. I still love many of their cartoons - The Prince of Egypt, Joseph: King of Dreams, The Road to El Dorado... *requires "happy nostalgic sigh" smiley* Yes, I'd definitely like a new LotR cartoon.
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Hercynian
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 29, 2010 01:06
Aggg! I wandered into the den of discontent on this one...

Yes but...

Yes but no, I don't think PJ "captured the essence." I think it's all but impossible to capture with a Hollywood-style format. If other stories and filming history is any indication, it seems to me that remakes can indeed improve a story, sometimes mightily. As far as timing, I could care less if LotR and Hobbit came out at the same time. The more the merrier for us!

In general, the PJ version is great, but obviously done in the Hollywood style. A bit more "art house" could bring out some really fine points, IMHO. And it's been said many time before that it should have been a many-episoded series, in order to do true justice to the material. I think that's true. But then people would say mini-series are not typically "blockbuster" funded projects. Again, I disagree. For example, my wife and I are crazy about Andrew Davies' 2008 BBC version of "Little Dorrit." It was a multi-part series for TV and you couldn't see anything shorted about it at all. It was probably the best 19th century Brit period film I've ever seen.

Another issue is the prequels "Born of Hope" etc. It's obvious to me that there's a pretty much bottomless demand for Tolkien on the silver screen. If people are so rabid about Tolkien in film that they make these pro-am shorts, well, you get my point....

Now if you were to say, Let's get something Silmarillion done first, I'd probably agree. But the Silmarillion would really have to be done right for it to work. Cheesy Hollywoodisms would doom it rather quickly. LotR was so powerful that it could survive stupid executive producers running around saying things like "show more cleavage, more blood!" The Silmarillion would die agonizingly under such treatment.

And Cuoran's "Prisoner of Azkaban" was, IMHO, a masterpiece of mod fantasy film. His timing was great, the mood he created stupendous, his Dumbledore book-true. Some day he'll get credit for what he did.
Aegor
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 29, 2010 01:57
I wouldn't call it discontent but realism...

Look at it from a finantial point of view. The budget for the trilogy was $281,000,000. The profit worldwide was $2,915,155,189 according to Box Office Mojo. Nothing other than the Hollywood-stlye format would be able to aquire such a huge initial investment nor would it be able to make such a profit making it a success in the end. You think a TV mini series would be able to do it justice? I'm all for story and character development and I don't care much for digital effects but some level is required to maintain a feeling of believability. A low budget project could never do Gollum justice, just to name an example. And there's nothing in the world right now that would be prepaired to invest another 300 million $ to recreate a 10 year old pop culture phenomenon. You think the audience would accept another actor as Gandalf? Or would you cast McKellen to film the same thing again only this time a little different?

You say you couldn't care less if LotR and Hobbit came out at the same time? Movies are made with huge regard on when they will be released and what else will be released at that time. There's nothing like another blockbuster at the box office to kill a potential profit which is what it's all about. Ask any movie that had the fortune of going agaist Avatar these days.

Now I'm all for more Middle-Earth, I'd love LotR to be a 170 episode series, but the reality is something else. Especially since Jackson nailed it, he really nailed it and the 3 films we have now are as close to perfection as it was possible. And they are still unmatched in the movie industry. Of course there will be something everyone will mind, I'd personally love to change a few things (most notably Arwen and Faramir) but I have to disagree with the title of this topic; It's not the time for a LotR remake.
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 30, 2010 08:48
I honestly can't see another re-make. And by any chance if they do decide to remake it, I doubt it will be for a very very long time. PJ absolutely hit the bullseye with the trilogy. They're possibly the three most celebrated films of all time. Personally, I loved how PJ did the films. Tom Bombadil was somewhat of a left-out, but as PJ said, does Tom really advance the story significantly?

I say no remake. At least not for a long time. When I'm 70 or so and they decide to re-make it, I think it would be neat. But now? No. I'm fine with what we were given.
Hercynian
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 30, 2010 03:04
Hmm. I guess I'm surprised you all wouldn't want another go-round right away. The whole "reality" argument, though... I guess I'm not really interested in the whole box office score. Jackson and any other director say they make films for the DVD release, where they can really stretch out and do things more as they like. And the huge sums of money. Again, I don't think you need that much money. The computer costs are coming down as we speak, too. Still, I saw "Eregon" and it was a bit threadbare in spots, true. Wouldn't want that chintzy an effort.

I've watch (like most of us) the films countless times and can see many problems. Some day I'll compile my list of problems as I see them. Many are trivial, some aren't. I know there's a lot of "home team" pride in PJ's effort, but still, somebody else needs to take a crack at this.

I guess one of the reasons I think a mini series would be good is timing. In PJ's (and countless other films) we are whipped through the story at far too fast a pace. Just by letting the material breath a bit more a fantastic depth could be achieved. More later. But no, I think PJ's LotR was far from perfect, and I'm sure he'd agree that he'd like to see someone else try sometime in the future.
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 30, 2010 06:12
I don't think anyone would say the PJ's LotR is perfect, just extremely well done, he definately cared a great deal about the movies, beyond the potential for making a lot of money. Even PJ probably has things he'd rather not have cut, or would have liked to do better. No book-based movie will be perfectly true to the book.

While I'd definately enjoy a movie of LotR that is perfectly true to the books, it's not going to happen, the fact is that they are entirely different mediums. The credits of movies say they are based on such-and-such book, not the book itself.

Back on track of the subject, while I don't think it's time for a remake, it could be cool to see another animated version of LotR. I remember reading a thread on TORn about the idea of an animated LotR by Hayao Miyazaki, which is a nice thought...
Ilandir
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 31, 2010 04:25
Whatever happens, whether a remake or not, I'll stick to PJ's versions - anytime.
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starofdunedain
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 31, 2010 07:44
I thought I'd add in my two cents here. Just to consider, usually when a director makes a movie it's to tell his or her story, not to break box office or score awards (although it's real nice ) or even to please people. All the actors,musicians, special effects, everyone is there to do their best to make the director's vision reality.
The Lord of the Rings movies were Peter Jackson's version.
And even though, I have to say, it was a monumental achievment, that doesn't make it superior or obsolete to the books. Take Shakespeare plays, I'm sure every play of Hamlet has a different director who has a different vision of it. It doesn't make it wrong if it's not exactly what Shapkespeare wrote does it? Yes I had a few problems with the way the story line went and the characters, but I still think it's an amazing cinematic achievement.
And this is just a wild idea of mine, but Hercynian it sounds like you'd rather do your own version? You could easily take a camera, go outside and film some spots then insert dialouge from the book where you see fit. Make up your own scense of how you think it should go. That's what I'm doing with my action figures. (pretty inexpensive too).
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: January 31, 2010 07:47
In my opinion, there are just some movies that should never be remade and for me LotR is one of them. Some movies are classic and should be left alone so that future generations can fall in love with them just like we did. Honestly, for many of us fans PJ's films were what introduced us to Tolkien and will forever hold a special place. To some, Viggo is Aragorn and Ian McKellen is Gandalf. Like other have said there were things I wish wouldn't have been changed/left out of PJ's version but overall he did a great job and I see no reason to remake them. It would be like remaking the original 3 Star Wars films which just seems pointless.
Hercynian
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: February 01, 2010 11:45
Oh, but we'd all like to be "artistic advisors." I don't think I'd try LotR on my own, though. But like Shakespeare, I think an author as significant as Tolkien does indeed need the flattery of many, many people interpreting his work. Yet I do also see the reverence to PJ's LotR. I too, was very moved. As I've said elsewhere, Tolkien goes beyond literary and beyond political non-fiction in his unique brand of personal inspiration. Yes, Tolkien Inspiration is a very rare gem indeed.
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: April 29, 2010 09:23
I think Peter Jackson did a great job of making the lord of the rings into a movie and i don't see them remaking it, yes there was a lot of interesting events that were not put in, the event i think majority of people would have liked to have seen was when the hobbits meet Tom Bombadil and Goldberry.
and for those people who have only seen the movies read the books
akiditarod
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: May 15, 2010 06:30
The LOTR movies are amazing and cost millions of dollars to make and you want a remake already? With another director? And different actors? And different looks and sounds and display and music and voices and animations and effects? I don't think so... sorry. But it doesn't make ANY sense. And if that Harry Potter dude made a remake I wouldn't pay a dime to watch that. The one made 10 years ago was genius and I wouldn't change anything. I am truly grateful that PJ had the time and money and imagination and skills to make a movie like that. yes, we have things that we'd like improved. But I think the movies are amazing. But that's my opinion.

[Edited on 16/5/2010 by akiditarod]
Rulea
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: June 10, 2010 09:57
I could probably see a remake fifty years from now...
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Faramira
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: August 16, 2010 10:38
I think they will never make a remake of the LOTR movies. They are nearly perfect and had gotten a lot of Oscars. Who will make this better?
avielle
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: August 16, 2010 01:12
No way should they have a remake now. It's way too early. I mean only the time for a remake is when A. most of the actors are either dead or really old or B. when the original viewers say "ohh i remember when that movie first came out. I only saw it because I had a thing for Orlando Bloom" and their grandkids reply "Who's Orlando Bloom?"
Talkeen43
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: August 18, 2010 04:56
Nope. too early for a remake.

Wandering.....has this ever been done before?
Has anyone remade a movie after an earlier version has done so well?
Has "Gone With the Wind" been done again? Has anyone topped the 1930's version of "The Wizard of Oz", the 1950's version of "The Ten Commandments?"

As far as I know, movies that have been done so well, aren't done again to the same level. Case in point; "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory."

A new animated film,.......maybe.
I would rather see a remake in CGI, like they did with "Starship Troopers."
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: February 15, 2011 01:30
Well, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, but yeah, riiiiiiight. I will never have another Pippin. Pippin is <3!

;D
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: February 23, 2011 08:25
I am a bit of a Tolkien purist, and i tend to rant a LOT about changes in the movie. Some of them i will never accept. But i always comfort myself by saying it could have been a lot worse. Infinately worse. I can think of many ways to make them better - but i am no director or movie maker, and would probably mess something(s) up. While i actually wouldn't mind a remake, i would live in fear that it would turn out even worse. They way i see it, the LotR movies are very good - for movies. Were we likely to get anything better?
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_Meldë_
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: May 27, 2011 06:52
I don't really want to have some director making a remake. For now... Guess nobody really wants to be the director of a remake of LotR. Everyone will have even higher expectations as a few years ago. It's an impossible job..
Anyways, the films are good as they are, there're always some things that could be made better but what if the films are worse? And I don't want to see other actors playing Frodo etc.
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: May 28, 2011 05:29
It really bothers me when topics like this pop up. Peter Jackson has mentioned several times that his films were not meant to be a direct representation of the books, but an interpretation. Of course things will have to be cut--it's impossible for every detail of a book--especially one as complex as the Lord of the Rings--to be transfered onto the big screen. There were certain things in the books that would have made no sense to nonreaders too if they were included. It's easy for someone to say that they would've included everything that happened, but it's actually a very difficult process! Whoever decides to do a remake later on will figure that out very quickly!

Simply put, Peter did a good job. It was more faithful than say, the movie Beowulf was to the orignal poem. :dizzy: It could have been much worse! Personally, I feel that I should thank Peter for the fims; he was the one who introduced me to the stories.

[Edited on 29/5/2011 by Dream~Giver]
Elthir
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: June 02, 2011 05:17
It really bothers me when topics like this pop up. Peter Jackson has mentioned several times that his films were not meant to be a direct representation of the books, but an interpretation.

Yet this opens an absolutely huge door: one can significantly alter characters, tone, story, and moral message, and still point to the general blanket of interpretation.

Of course things will have to be cut--it's impossible for every detail of a book--especially one as complex as the Lord of the Rings--to be transfered onto the big screen. There were certain things in the books that would have made no sense to nonreaders too if they were included.


Cutting is very different from alterations in any case. I don't know of any Jackson Unfan who has argued that every detail can or need be put up on the screen -- cutting is a mutually agreed upon necessity in my opinion, but the issue of faithfulness to Tolkien does not revolve around mere cutting (generally noting that Jackson also added his own material, or arguably elongated fight or battle scenes).

Tolkien himself was not against cuts being made with respect to the film treatment shown him, but he had plenty to comment about regarding what he perceived of as needless changes that would have resulted in a poorer film, in his opinion.

Simply put, Peter did a good job. It was more faithful than say, the movie Beowulf was to the orignal poem. It could have been much worse! Personally, I feel that I should thank Peter for the fims; he was the one who introduced me to the stories.



But of course not everyone agrees Jackson did a good job...

... and for some, Jackson's take was 'much worse' than it could have been
Dream~Giver
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: June 02, 2011 03:06
Meh, to each his own I guess. I understand not everyone's going to enjoy Jackson's films, but I just wanted to throw my two cents in.

[Edited on 3/6/2011 by Dream~Giver]
spotted
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: June 07, 2011 01:52
never ever will there be a cast, crew and director like PJ's version, because everyone worked together
Elthir
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: June 07, 2011 03:49
For myself, I don't imagine that Jackson and Company provide a model of working together that can never be equalled -- and I realize this is only one aspect of 'working together', but what if a theoretical future actor playing Gandalf (for example) was in discord with his director -- and that disagreement (not necessarily heated) ended up with an arguably more faithful interpretation of Gandalf?

Or the other way around? the director annoyed his actor by consistently disagreeing with an interpretation, yet in the end the way the director wanted a given scene played was arguably better (according to someone's opinion) with respect to how the scene in the book 'should' be adapted?

For instance if Ian M. initially had refused to thwack 'Denethor' with his staff and subsequently convinced Jackson not to go there -- in my opinion the film would have been the better for such disagreement.





[Edited on 7/6/2011 by Elthir]
Aegor
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: June 07, 2011 04:23
Guillermo del Toro proved that there will never again be such a dedicated director and crew.

I don't think actors (good ones anyway) need to be annoyed to in order to act better. It's why they are actors. Jackson should get a handshake from God for all the divas he managed to work with on these movies (Sean Astin in particular).

I would thwack Denethor with a staff, thrice (nod to Conan O'Brien fans out there). I wouldn't have him run out as a flaming ball though, but I don't hate the movies cause of it either.

Personally I'd like to see people who insult someone's 7 year work project write a 90 page script of their own, not cutting to much and better preserving the faithfullness to Tolkien.
Elthir
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: June 07, 2011 05:16
Guillermo del Toro proved that there will never again be such a dedicated director and crew.


I don't think that whatever happened with GDT should prove never again in any event -- never again is a very long time! And for those who prefer Jackson, they are arguably happier for the switch.

I don't think actors (good ones anyway) need to be annoyed to in order to act better. It's why they are actors.


For clarity, I didn't say actors needed to be annoyed in order to act better -- rather I gave an example of how disagreement might actually improve a film. I was talking about interpretation and faithfulness to Tolkien in any case, not acting ability.

Jackson should get a handshake from God for all the divas he managed to work with on these movies (Sean Astin in particular).


But should we think no one else could possibly have managed these same actors? and there would be different actors in a remake, or theoretically so.

I would thwack Denethor with a staff, thrice (nod to Conan O'Brien fans out there). I wouldn't have him run out as a flaming ball though, but I don't hate the movies cause of it either.


Does anyone hate the films for this one choice? or hate them because of any one alteration or choice by Jackson's team? I said the films would be the 'better' for not having 'Gandalf' do this (in my opinion) needless act.

Personally I'd like to see people who insult someone's 7 year work project write a 90 page script of their own, not cutting to much and better preserving the faithfullness to Tolkien.


If you're implying that this task isn't easy, I agree; but that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who couldn't have done a much, much better job -- 'much better' according to enough people's opinions at least.

Ejecting some of Jackson's needless and ignoble brutality (again as I see things) would be only a first step.


[Edited on 8/6/2011 by Elthir]
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: June 07, 2011 09:50
Now, I don't think challenging people who are not fond of PJ's movies to write a better script is a fair argument. We all have different views of what would work in a movie, so let's agree to disagree, yes?

Also, unless someone has a crystal ball or unless it would be a copyright infringement, I don't think we can say for sure that there will never be a remake of LotR.
I for one would be definitely curious to see one, eventhough I liked PJ's movies for the most part. Like Elthir, I am bothered by many of the changes made to the movie characters, and wouldn't mind seeing a different take on that. I'll venture to guess a potential new adaptation would contain some material less, and some more true to the books than PJ's LotR was. It's the more true bits that I'd be curious about.
It's possible the movie would not work for many, but I'd still go and see it out of curiosity.

I said the films would be the 'better' for not having 'Gandalf' do this (in my opinion) needless act.


I second that. It's probably the most cringe-worthy scene in the entire series for me; a noble Maia who is able to do disarm by the sheer power of his will, behaving like a common pub thug. I'm sure somewhere beyond the Circles of the World, Manwë cringed too.
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belldoras
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: July 30, 2011 07:17
I do not hate the movies, but admire the director who had the vision and the courage to bring the LOTR to the screens.

It is because of the 'leaving out' parts of the book that many of you can share your greivances.

Perhaps if he decides to do the Silmarillion it would be a 5 hour trilogy.
Elthir
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: July 31, 2011 03:18
It is because of the 'leaving out' parts of the book that many of you can share your greivances.


Enough people who have notable problems with these films realize cuts would be made. Tolkien himself realized cuts would be made with respect to the film treatment he was shown, but I note he was not happy about a number of (what he felt were) needless changes -- arguably needless considering film, that is.

I think Jackson's films are too long actually; also noting that he added his own material, or in my opinion, indulged in overlong battle and fight scenes for example.

Perhaps if he decides to do the Silmarillion it would be a 5 hour trilogy.


Well, in any case at the moment Jackson can't simply decide to do The Silmarillion, as the Tolkien Estate holds the rights.





[Edited on 31/7/2011 by Elthir]
belldoras
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: August 10, 2011 11:44
Peter Jackson had a dream, his partner believed it, the production crew and the actors he chose believed it, the New Zealand Government back then believed it and paid for the privilege and finally he found a film studio that was willing to take that dream further and release it. The rest you might say, is history.

Now fans worldwide eagerly anticipate every bit of news concerning The Hobbit movie. The road goes ever on.

I can't see a remake.
Elthir
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Post RE: Time for a LotR remake!
on: August 14, 2011 04:33
Well, why should the theoretical next director (and cast and crew) necessarily believe in their project any less than people can claim Jackson (and cast and crew) did?

Here's what Jackson said, according to one article online (linked below)...

Jackson is not the kind of director who is obsessive. He wants to make it clear that "I've not had a lifelong ambition to make The Lord of the Rings, which is what a lot of people are sort of assuming that I've had."

Rather, adds the man who is still best remembered by many for his cult splatter movie Bad Taste, "I've had a lifelong passion to make a fantasy adventure film, because when I was younger I loved Ray Harryhausen's movies, as well as stuff like Jason and the Argonauts, and the original King Kong. I've always had a desire to make one of those fantasy adventure type films, and they don't do those movies much any more."


http://www.iofilm.co.uk/feats/interviews/p/peter_jackson.shtml


[Edited on 15/8/2011 by Elthir]
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