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heri_sinyë
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Post The Desolation of Smaug... thoughts, anyone? [SPOILER ALERT]
on: December 11, 2013 12:02
I couldn't find any topic on this yet, and I really need to talk about this film... but I'm afraid I've already tired my family with it since I haven't spoken of anything else since I saw it last night. So, has anyone here seen it yet? What are your thoughts on it?

Me, I loved it. Absolutely loved it! Though that doesn't mean I don't have any complaints about it. Peter Jackson took a lot of liberties with this one, some are awesome and some... not so much, in my opinion.

[Edited on 12/11/2013 by tarcolan]
Nevaratoiel
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on: December 11, 2013 12:50
I think I'll have to watch it again before submitting a full review.

What I can say about it now is I expected more Thranduil. Even though there was a lot of Legolas and Tauriel, I did expect more of Mirkwood. It was a little disappointing, really.

I thought Smaug was amazing. He was like a real, big, scary, imposing dragon. They hit the nail on that one.

Last, but not least, which is positive in a sense, at the very end I was like... "What? Noooo.... don't let it end here! I want to see what happens next!" They really let it end, just as you want to see what's coming....

So, now we'll have to wait another year.

[Edited on 12/11/2013 by Nevaratoiel]
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heri_sinyë
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on: December 11, 2013 01:49
Smaug was really amazing, they did a great job with the voice! Which makes me wish his conversation with Bilbo had been longer...

Hm... now that you mentioned it, they could have included more Thranduil, but I was so caught up in Legolas being awesome that I didn't notice. What I did notice, however, was the budding romance between Kili and Tauriel. I had heard rumours about it, but I had discarded them as ridiculous... and I guess that's my main problem with the film. Don't get me wrong, I really like the inclusion of Tauriel as a character, I even enjoyed her interaction with Kili at first (though I was a bit wary of where that might lead), but the "romance" seemed a bit forced and out of place in the story. During the whole healing scene, when Kili says "do you think she could have loved me" or some such thing, I couldn't help but think (in an incredibly sarcastic tone): yeah, you go ahead and be all lovey-dovey in there while Legolas saves the day and kills all the orcs. (Also the scene felt a bit too much like a repeat of Arwen saving Frodo in LoTR.)

The ending left me incredibly frustrated, but in a good way. I couldn't believe the film was over! Another year until the next one! And that will be the last!
Lindarielwen
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on: December 11, 2013 06:49
heri_sinye and Nevaratoiel, where do you live? It opens at 12:01 here on friday morning. I cannot wait and I know I will love it. Did either of you dress up and was the theater crowded?

I so look forward to seeing Tauriel.I suspected something would go on between Tauriel and Kili.

[Edited on 12/12/2013 by Lindarielwen]
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heri_sinyë
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on: December 11, 2013 11:28
I live in Sweden... I thought it would come out at the same time basically everywhere. This explains why so few people on the internet are talking about it for now (few in comparison to how many I guess there will be once they start showing it everywhere). I live in a small town, still they were showing the Hobbit on all four screens of the theatre at 11.59 pm tuesday, and I believe nearly all seats were occupied.

I didn't dress up though (I really suck at making costumes) but I wore my One Ring
Lindarielwen
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on: December 12, 2013 05:25
Your positive review of Smaug has warmed my heart. I grew so weary of all the complaining about An Unexpected Journey. As for me, I already love the movie even without seeing it!

You would think the movie would open on the same day everywhere but that is not the case. Australia has to wait until the day after Christmas.

I cannot attend the midnight opening, which is this night, but I will be there on Saturday morning, happy and excited, to see what I have been waiting for all year.

Off I go to get my pointy ears ready!

[Edited on 12/12/2013 by Lindarielwen]
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sydnisan
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on: December 14, 2013 03:28
I saw Desolation of Smaug yesterday, and whilst I really enjoyed it, I feel like they made it too different to the book. They left out a lot of my favourite bits and not enough time was spent in Mirkwood. However, I thought Smaug was absolutely amazing, and the bit with the spiders was very well done!
Lindarielwen
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on: December 14, 2013 05:00
I just got back from seeing Smaug, twice! The first time was in regular and I was loving it so much that my Aragron went and got us tix for the one in 3D! It was absolutley amazing in 3D! It was absolutely amazing in regular as well. I totally loved every single bit of it. (You all knew I would)

Tauriel was wonderful. She is quite the warrior and totally unafraid to fight. We got a little insight on Legolas and Thranduil and for you Legolas fans....he had plenty of screen time.

I did not think there was much of a "romance" between Tauriel and Kili. They talked, they liked each other, nice words were said but Kili was a bit out of it from an injury and they barely touched finger tips.

Beorn was great and we met Bolg, son of Azog, and what a meany he is.

The scene in the barrels was great and well played.

And then there is Smaug! His animation was outstanding.

What a great ending! It does not end where you think it will. There is plenty to look forward to in...let's see....about 368 days! (December 17, 2014)

Guess who were the only ones dressed up!
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starofdunedain
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on: December 14, 2013 10:15
Just came back from seeing it. I felt a little disappointed in it.

Dislikes: I really didn't like Tauriel, I felt she added nothing to the story and didn't enjoy any of the Kili/Tauriel scenes with him getting hit by the arrow. I especially disliked it when they left four of the dwarves behind at Laketown, big deviation from the book.
I was overall disappointed with how little screen time Bilbo got and how the was never any instance that showed how much he had really grown and how much the dwarves had come to respect him like in the book.
Laketown disappointed me, I thought we'd be seeing more of it and I didn't understand the point in having a cold reception versus the people being glad they've come. I also didn't understand the point of making Bard to be a rebel and all this espionage.
I really wish they had spent more time with Beorn instead of being chased and added in his gentle humor.

Some minor dislikes: the moonlight of Durin's Day shining on the keyhole is not correct. It says "the last light of the setting sun on Durin's Day" not just any old light. I was really hoping we'd have a scene of Thorin protesting being put into barrels and rolled down the river.
I was a bit disappointed they didn't have more of the eagles at the beginning.

Likes:I liked the beginning at the Prancing Pony and the backstory as to how Thorin and Gandalf met. I enjoyed the spiders and I was glad that they had them talk. I was a bit disappointed that they didn't have the elves feasting and that Bilbo didn't mock the spiders and draw them away from the dwarves. I felt that showed his courage in the book. I enjoyed Erebor thoroughly. Even though it's a deviation I enjoyed Smaug chasing them through the mountain and seeing the forages and mines. That PJ part I didn't mind.
I found Thranduil to be well done but I wish they could have elaborated more on his greed which was in the book rather than the seclusion stuff.
I did like that they included Bolg.
I really enjoyed seeing Smaug. I felt that he was well done and that if I were there I would be terrified of him. I'm glad they did Bilbo's riddles of underhill and barrel rider and other lines that were right from the book.
I think the bit about the Arkenstone being a sign of his right to rule and uniting the dwarves was a nice touch.

One more thing that's not really a like or dislike but more of a confusion. What was up with Thranduil's face? Was he supposed to be severely burned by Smaug and missing half his face and keeping it stitched up by magic? Or was that some sort of metaphor that he was burning with gold fever like Thorin?


Will I see it again in theaters? Possibly.
Will I buy it? Definitley.
Extended edition? I don't think so. I don't feel that I loved it enough to buy an extended version of it.
In fact I really wish they had just done two films instead of three, I feel it would have been a much more enjoyable and tighter story.

[Edited on 12/15/2013 by starofdunedain]
Elethiel
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on: December 15, 2013 09:35
Tauriel is a welcome presence in the movie, but it was unfortunate that she got caught in one of the most predictable clichés plaguing young adult lit and films lately. Only because there is a woman in the film, doesn't mean she has to be involved in some type of romance (especially when it's badly done and it feels forced).

However, I predict that Tauriel will die in film 3. If you notice, as far as weaponry goes, Legolas only used his bow and arrows and a sword. The one with the two daggers was Tauriel (the same daggers that Legolas used in the LotR). trilogy). I suspect Tauriel will die in film 3 and Legolas will inherit her daggers. Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm positive I didn't see Legolas in DoS using his two daggers/white knives.
parluggla
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on: December 15, 2013 09:41
My family and I saw it yesterday. I always thought the LotR films weren't dark and mysterious enough, so that was the first thing I noticed DoS did expand on, i.e., the dark feeling. It was a bit like the Harry Potter films in how they got darker as the situation got graver.

Since I live in the same town as Hercynian, (a tiny little Lake Superior North Shore town in Minnesota) I've heard all his views on "deeper significance," and I agree with him that just having these films in this day and age is quite a social phenomenon in itself. So I guess I'm more forgiving of Jackson's liberties, although I understand when others aren't so forgiving. Still, the whole "make it fast-paced and hard-hitting" rule seems, once again, way overdone. I realize Tolkien's storylines are at times mad dashes, but not always. They're mad dashes broken up with very interesting lay-overs. So once again the lay-overs came up too short, while the mad dashes just got too overwhelming and started to blur.

I guess we'll have to wait for the EE to see Jackson's preferred version and pacing. For many spots it would have been nicer to just linger a bit and let the scene and place sink in.

Best Liked: Mirkwood Elves' mega-cave.
Most Disliked: Thanduil's lack of Elven nobility. One friend said: "Thranduil's supposed to be an elf, not a North Korean dictator!"
Elethiel
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on: December 15, 2013 09:42
And I agree: not enough Mirkwood, no merrymaking!
Lindarielwen
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on: December 15, 2013 09:57
I seem to remember that Legolas had his two daggers and used both of them to cleave the head from an Orc.
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Elethiel
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on: December 15, 2013 10:19
It could be, as I said, I'm not completely sure. It was very noticeable in Laketown when he used a single sword. Maybe he switched weapons between both scenes. The sword seemed wrong, but maybe it was a nod to Legolas's "white knife" in the LotR books.

[Edited on 12/15/2013 by Elethiel]
Lindarielwen
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on: December 15, 2013 11:16
I thought it was wonderful seeing Legolas using such a variety of weapons, especailly the sword. We saw Legolas quite differently than he was in LotR. The scene of him jumping from head to head on the Dwarves was clever and I wonder what will happen when Legolas finally catches up to Bolg. Legolas was not very happy that Bolg caused his nose to bleed.

[Edited on 12/17/2013 by Lindarielwen]
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Elssamor
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on: December 17, 2013 09:42
I saw it last night (finally) and I always give myself the night to sleep on a movie before passing judgement. (this lesson was hard learned). My findings are:

I wanted more Beorn. I didn't like how they introduced him and how little they stayed. I get that they were trying to convey a sense of urgency to the quest but it sped things up too much. I just hope we get more Beorn during the next one when he comes to the Battle of Five Armies.

They needed more time in Mirkwood as a whole not just with the elves. It wasn't near scary enough.

As much as I liked Tauriel's character I didn't like the forced romance with Kili. It was not needed and detracted from Fili and Kili being almost one dwarf. They were 'The Hobbit's version of Merry and Pippin.

I very much enjoyed the scenes in Dol Guldor. I always wanted to see more of Gandalf in action and so far 'The Hobbit' series as a whole has provided it.

I was dissapointed in Lake Town. I didn't like the portrayal of Bard, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to like him or not.

Smaug was probably the best part of the movie. Everything they did with Smaug was perfect.

I do feel like the whole purpose of this second movie was to bridge the first and third, which is how the middle of the book felt so I get that. I liked the first one way more and the third one should be unbelievable, but this one is still great.
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Ithilwen Tindomerel
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on: December 19, 2013 12:09
Hmmmm... I feel the same as a lot of you do about Tauriel - she was not extremely necessary, and her "romance" with Kili was rather too fast-paced, although she was very well portrayed by Evangeline Lilly.

I rather liked Bard; I felt this movie gave him more backstory and fleshed out his life more (though I am not sure I liked him being cast as a smuggler/outlaw type). His three children were really precious and it was heart-warming to see how much of a family man he was. Also, the boy who plays Bain does a great job!
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Eruwestiel_Evensong
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on: December 21, 2013 10:38
I just saw the movie tonight. I liked this one a lot more than the first, but maybe that is partially because I only read the first half of the book (don't worry, I definitely want to finish it now).

I agree with the rest of you. I liked Tauriel, but the "love triangle" was unnecessary. Kili was very sweet, he is one of my favorite characters in this movie.

Thranduil was kind of weird to me. He was just a little "off" somehow.

This movie had several throw backs (or should I say, throw forwards?) to LoTR which were sometimes funny. Like the Kingsfoil.

They do a good job with building suspense and startling you. I jumped two times.

Smaug was well done I think. His voice was perfect and his face was nearly perfect. I would have changed very little about him.

Because I didn't finish the book, there were many times when I was thinking "what will happen now?" I really had no clue where it was going.

I really liked Bard, but it was annoying how they made him look bad. His children were adorable! These movies do not have many children in them, which maybe is way I enjoyed them so much.

The master of Laketown's henchman guy was nasty! So much like Grima.

When Thorin left the four dwarves behind I was like "What?! How could he do that?!" Yup, Thorin can be annoying.

I know I have mostly said the things I don't like, but I did really enjoy the movie. I loved how they developed the characters. I'll have to think about the movie more and see it again before I can really give a good review.

If you haven't seen it yet, you need to!
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Bartimaeus
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on: December 22, 2013 06:53
I thought the Tauriel-Kili thing was a little weird... maybe the dialogue was just too extreme. 'Do you think she could have loved me?' The actors were pretty good though.

Yes, the kingsfoil bit was funny. And so was the elf called Elros. I don't really know what Leggy was doing in the movie, but I'm not complaining.

I thought the Dol Guldur scenes were good, but I didn't really like the Orcs. The representation of Sauron by a cloud of darkness was great though. I loved the duel between him and Gandalf.

Yes, they made Beorn too austere, and I miss the mystery in the book about his ancestors. It kind of spoils it if they clear that up! And I also missed the bit where they enter two-by-two and Beorn says 'I don't want your service, just your names.'

They made Thorin a little too desperate too. He doesn't force Bilbo back at swordpoint in the book. And then the leaving companions behind thing.

Smaug, of course, was great. They made him more vulnerable than in the book, but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. He was impressive.

starofdunedain, I agree about the moonlight thing too. An unnecessary change.

My favourite addition: ash nazg!

I liked the movie on its own, but it isn't so great as an adaptation of the book. Definitely worth seeing though. I'd like to watch it again.

[Edited on 12/22/2013 by Bartimaeus]
Lindarielwen
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on: December 22, 2013 09:42
Eruwestiel_Evensong, you have not read the entire book? I suppose you should finish it before the next movie comes out.

I enjoyed the movie and could really find no fault with it. It does not matter to me that it did not exactly follow the book. Can you name me one movie that does?

Oh, I do have a complaint. Not one note of Misty Mountains Cold.

[Edited on 12/22/2013 by Lindarielwen]
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tarcolan
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on: December 22, 2013 05:00
I've just seen it in 3D at the IMAX, and what can I say? Smaug! Smaug the Magnificent. Smaug, greatest of all Calamities. Smaug the Computer Generated. I want to see it again just for Smaug. I'm not bothered about the 3D except for Smaug. I can forgive the paucity of spiders if I can see Smaug again. I can forgive not hearing Beorn say the best line in the book - "Little bunny's getting fat on bread and honey." if I can just see Smaug again. Unbelievable!
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Kski
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Post Peter Jackson: Redo The Desolation of Smaug
on: December 23, 2013 02:44
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/peter-jackson-redo-the-desolation-of-smaug.html

Petition Background (Preamble):
We have seen the storytelling skills of Peter Jackson's team.

Whether the reason was lack of time or some other, The Desolation of Smaug suffered in terms of storytelling.

We want you to take the time to do better as the story deserves.
Petition:
As a show of support of Peter Jackson and the Hobbit story, we, the undersigned, agree to pay to see any reworking of The Desolation of Smaug and not complain about a delay of a year or two in the release of the third movie.
Sign the petition
tarcolan
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on: December 23, 2013 02:47
I don't think PJ has any say in the matter, the movie belongs to Warner Bros and MGM. I can't see them wanting to re-release a different edit. A nice idea though, but would it be any better?
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Kski
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on: December 23, 2013 05:07
I understand that you weren’t going to tell the story exactly as in The Hobbit. The timing of the movie and the timeline in the story were crunched. Suspense never built. Character development forgotten. The audience needed at least a partial climax to end this episode. Think The Empire Strikes Back with the revelation and escape. Also consider George Lucas’ failed attempts to patch up his trilogies.

I can make some allowances for video game action sequences and added Hollywood !*%* to inject false highlights.

Why does everyone know of Thorin's quest? Bilbo’s cleverness was removed from the spiders scene. The dungeon escape was never a dilemma. Thorin did not even have time to sit in his prison cell.
What happened to fear of dragons, whose fire is so hot that it could almost melt the One Ring? A lone man was actually expected to kill the dragon? The dwarves did not fear going into the mountain. Smaug could have picked off at least one dwarf. Why would Smaug leave the dwarves with his treasure?

So Bilbo and the dwarves are left behind. Many other story lines are left hanging: Gandalf (haha), Legolas, Bard, Sauron, and Smaug. Pick one and use it as an end.

[Edited on 12/24/2013 by tarcolan]
Erwedraith
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on: December 25, 2013 09:02
I've watched this movie 2 times both in Digital. I need to watch in in the 2 other formats though. (This is a pretty positive review)

I loved this movie!! Great start to the film with Gandalf and Thorin...good background to Bilbo being the burglar.

Mirwood could have been a bit more but I felt dizzy throughout the scene so it does capture the effect of the wood as it did with the company.

Thranduil ahh so pompous! I have to say I kinda hate him but that just me.
Now Legolas and Tauriel rock...love their actions scenes. They do create other plot lines and there is not as much development of the company with exception of Bilbo and maybe Thorin and Balin but I love having another elf in the movie. Her knife and bow and arrow skills are insane and she's so impulsive...I love it!

Gandalf and his small adventure haha...facing the most terrible being in Middle Earth...it's grand!

SMAUG...Cumberbatch did his job! His voice, personality...everything!! PJ didn't fail us...it was more than I excpected!! Maybe a dwarf could of been maimed or something in that chasing scene but oh well

The ending just left me wanting more!

"Some believe that it is only great power that can hold evil in check. But that is not what I've found. I found it is the small things. Every day deeds by ordinary folk that keeps the darkness at bay." - Gandalf
Hanasian
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on: December 25, 2013 10:28
I saw it today. it was an ok PJ fanfic. Opening in Bree, Laketown, and Smaug were done well, and Thranduil was pretty interesting. The whole pointless love triangle was a waste, and Legolas was looking a bit aged for a younger elf.
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on: December 25, 2013 11:05
Arveleg- in his defense, Orlando Bloom is ten years older now - he addressed that himself in an interview, wondering how he was supposed to look younger than LOTR. But I am glad they didn't recast him.

I am torn about this...as a movie, I loved it! As an adaptation of the book, it was terrible. This interview with Evangeline Lilly helped me feel a little better about PJ adding in additional characters:

http://io9.com/how-desolation-of-smaug-adds-elves-who-dont-appear-in-1447126072

I liked her perspective that it would be difficult to tell much of a story with the elves in Mirkwood because we are not introduced to any of them in the book, except Thranduil. Legolas is alluded to but not mentioned by name, so I did expect him to show up. Overall, I loved Tauriel as a character, and I thought she made the scenes with the Elves in Mirkwood more relatable to the viewers.

However, Tauriel and Legolas following them all the way to Laketown was too far fetched for me. And along those same lines, I didn't care for the rewrite in not all of the dwarves going to the mountain together.
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on: December 25, 2013 11:20
I saw it on opening day and loved it! The character development was amazing and it was really fast paced! Tauriel was amazing and the feast of stars scene between her and fili was just poetic! Smaug was also a real treat and the fight scene and dialogue between him and Bilbo was amazing! I'm still puzzled as why they tried to cover him gold....it was a scene that didn't make much sense to me. But the liberties that Jackson took made the movie spectacular and added much needed character development.
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on: December 26, 2013 07:33
I fell in love with the Desolation of Smaug! Lee Pace did a great job as Thranduil. The elf-king is full of sass, I love it . The Mirkwood scene was beautiful, it's like a 'foresty' version of Lothlorien. I like Tauriel, even though she wasn't in the book. It's great to see a she-elf in a fight. Benedict's role as Smaug was freaking awesome!
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on: December 27, 2013 06:27
It seems to me that Tauriel is being very well received and I am glad. Her battle scenes were very good but I wonder what will happen to her in There and Back Again. I hope to see Desolation of Smaug again this weekend!
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tarcolan
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on: December 27, 2013 01:52
I've recovered a little from my dragon sickness now. I first have to retract my original opinion of Martin Freeman, he makes an excellent Bilbo. It is unfortunate though that Bilbo's character development has been ruined. In the book it is his encounter with the spiders that sees him starting to take control of the situation. He was already fighting goblins, Gundabad orcs and wargs in the first film which left nothing much for the second film. Not even an 'Attercop' or 'lazy lob'. The scene in front of the secret door was done well though, showing how Bilbo's mood seemed always to be the opposite of the Dwarves, though more could have been made of this in the rest of the film.

I have no particular objection to Tauriel, apart from the ill-conceived relationship with Kili which doesn't really work on any level, and seems just to be a necessary part of the Hollywood template. Apart from the points already mentioned it was a great action movie, but not the book story. I don't think I'll bother with 3D again, I had to close my eyes during the busy bits 'cos it made my eyes go funny. But I have to see Smaug again, oh yes!
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Hanasian
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on: December 28, 2013 06:45
Silverleaf said: Arveleg- in his defense, Orlando Bloom is ten years older now

Really? REALLY??? Thanks Captain Obvious for setting me straight on the fact the Lord of the Rings movies were filmed 13+ years ago and all the actors have aged exactly that many years.

Personally, since PJ was going to bring Legolas in, which made sense story-wise even though he was not in the book, a re-cast of the part with a younger, better actor would have done DOS a bit of a favour in my humble opinion. But from a marketing angle, PJ wanted to bring the Orli fan-girl base of the LotR movies of 12-11-10 years ago back in to the theatre to see this movie.

About Tauriel, Evangeline Lily did a remarkable job of bringing the warrior she-elf to life. Unfortunately she was wasted on the forced love triangle storyline. I predict she is one of the 'dramatic deaths' of the 3rd movie. Too bad PJ couldn't come up with an actor like her for the part of Arwen back in 2000. Evangeline would have been still in college and didn't get her first acting job until 2002. She did well with what she was given to work with in this movie.

Considering the story was stretched to 3 movies, I think Beorn was shortchanged in the movie.

LightElfRowena said: Lee Pace did a great job as Thranduil. The elf-king is full of sass


I agree! For his small part, I think he nailed it!

[Edited on 12/28/2013 by Arveleg]
Eighth King of Arthedain - It was in battle that I come into this Kingship, and it will be in Battle when I leave it. There is no peace for the Realm of Arnor. Read the last stand of Arthedain in the Darkest of Days.
tarcolan
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on: December 28, 2013 10:58
Now now Arveleg, less of the sarcasm.
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CarolP
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on: December 28, 2013 05:02
I liked most of it. I didn't like the love triangle, I don't think that they needed to focus on Legolas and Tauriel as much as they did. They really stretched things out, some of the fight scenes were just way too long. I liked Bilbo, Smaug, and Beorn.
tarcolan
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on: December 28, 2013 05:56
Wow CarolP! You're clearly an old-timer on here with a title like that. Where've you been? I agree, they could've had a lot more Beorn and less of the clever fighting scenes.
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