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DarthMI
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Post Do you think the Jackson Trilogy downplayed how skilled and cunning Orcs are in War?
on: April 27, 2014 10:40
I remember when I watched Peter Jackson's adaptation of The Lord of the Rings of how disorganized and poorly armed Orcs were in war. With the exception of the Urukais and the War Chiefs, most Orcs only had scraps of armor on were mostly unarmored and all they often had were crude blades. Generally the Orcs did not fight using formations and tactics with the exception of the Siege of Minas Tirith (and even there they only used formations when at the start of the Siege and once they broke through they simply just charging at the enemy with no regards for their safety).

It seems in the Movies every battles the Orcs won were either through sheer numbers or because they fought poorly trained and poorly armed innocent civilians and militia. When they finally fought a well-trained army like the Riders of Rohan and Gondor's men-at-arms, they were either massacred easily or if they did won it was because of sheer numeral advantage and often at the cost of many more Orcs than the humans would lose in the battles.

They don't even have basic hand-to-hand skills and they would use crude attacks like simply overwhelming their enemies with the sheer speeds of their tackles and sword blows and biting the exposed neck area of Gondorian soldiers and so forth.

However after reading the book, I can't help but feel this portrayal of the Orcs really is a mockery of the true might of Sauron. The Orcs in the book are very well-prepared and armed to the teeth with full armor. They are USED many different tactics and strategem and operated like other armies of Middle Earth using proper marches and formations and winning through cunning and well-trained troops.

Even the basic ambush at the start of Two Towers, were the Orcish party carrying Merry all by itself was a VERY tactical fight. The movie portrayed the Orcs as caught completely unprepared and slaughtered in a single night.

The book describes the battles with such details. The Orcs had scouts around the area so by the time the Riders of Rohan detected them, the Orcs already prepared for the assault. their troops were waiting for the Riders of Rohan with their archers and unlike in the movie, just this mere raid took a WHOLE DAY. Without going into full details, the Orcs were too prepared for the Rohan Riders to simply charge at them and the Rohan Riders had to use deception to defeat the Orcs. The movie portrayed the Riders as not losing a single horseman-the book described at around thirty were killed.

The Orcs weren't even destroyed in a cavalry charge-they attacked the Rohan Riders directly and it was such an aggressive attack Pippin and Merry were convinced the Riders were losing and took the chance in the melee to escape, though by the time the Rohan Riders have practically fought off the assault and defeated the Orcs the two Hobbits already have been in such panic they ran away to a nearby wood (even though a Rider killed the Orc that was chasing them as opposed to Treebard in the movie).

This is just a BASIC RAID and it already shows just how deadly the Orcs are in war. Nevermind the other major battles like Hornburg (there were Orcs in the Siege unlike int he movie), Siege of Minas Tirith, and even the early raids in Fellowship of the Rings (were the Orcs set up ambushes and nearly killed the members of the Fellowship various times throughout the story in a mere raid).

Does any other Tolkien fan feel the movie does not do justice to the Orcs and portrayed them as unsophisticated barbarians who all they knew was "charge,charge, and charge!"?

I know in the Siege of Minas Tirith the Orcs were shown using siege equipment and in the attack to take back Osgiliath, they actually prepared a defense of archers occupying the high ground to fight off Gondor's Knights in the ROTK movie. But other than that even in battles against Gondor, their basic MO was to charge at the Gondorian soldiers recklessly and out of formations and simply overwhelm them through sheer numbers and ferocity.
Gandolorin
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on: April 27, 2014 12:12
The mass of Orcs were seen by JRRT as (don't ask me about the book) "the infantry of the old War" (meaning for him most likely WW I). Without their leaders (Azog, Bolg, The Great Goblin of TH, even Golfimbul, the Uruk-hai, and the leading Mordor Orcs), they were not warriors, but scavengers relying exactly on overwhelming numbers. When this did not lead to expected results (as in the War of Wrath ending the First Age) they were:
"... and the uncounted legions of the Orcs perished like straw in a great fire, or were swept like straw before a burning wind: Few remained to trouble the world for long years after."
They were motivated by nothing else that their hatred for other living things, and yes, all they knew was "charge, charge, and charge!" And against real warriors the got seriously massacred.
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findemaxam48
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on: June 21, 2014 01:51
Hm, PJ hit the nail on the head with the hatred for all creatures thing. But the cunning? Hm. I may need to rewatch some of the main scenes before I really make a decision. It seemed that they were skilled on certain turfs, but unskilled on others. I'll rewatch and then post later.
We were one in the same, running like moths to the flame. You'd hang on every word I'd say, but now they only ricochet.
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