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Scothia
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Post Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: August 28, 2002 05:54
Think hard about this.

You are given the choice: living a normal, mortal life, growing old with your loved ones and then passing in the way of all living things; or immortality.

Immortality means you never die, of course. The catch: you keep all your memories, good and bad. You outlive everyone you love and who loves you.

JRRT probed the meaning of this in giving us Elrond and his brothers, and then Arwen, who each had this choice to make.

What would you do?

[Edited on 5/9/2003 by PotbellyHairyfoot]
Trignifty
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: August 28, 2002 06:27
HAH! I don't even need to debate this...I would never want to be immortal. I don't care if it means I get to be an elf and perfect...elves shut themselves off from other races, and I wouldn't be able to handle it. And if I tried to consort with other races, I wouldn't be able to handle them all dying.

Plus...life's tough enough living for oh..I don't know, throw out 75 years. A normal human life is hard enough...don't tell me elves don't have the usual weird drama that humans have. A lot of us are haunted by the choices we make all throughout our lives. Extend that a few thousand years, eh?

So at least for me, I would NEVER....EVER want to be immortal. Too much grief comes along with it. and there's only so many ways to kill time.
MystikMuseJen
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: August 28, 2002 06:51
Im gonna agree with Trig on this...
I mean, having to live through ages upon ages seems like a great idea in theory but why would you want to live life cut off from the rest of the world for fear of getting too close to people who might up and die on you? Like she said, the Elves lock themselves away from other races. There is more to that than just, "We don't like them." It's a defense mechanism. You don't take a chance, you don't get hurt. You don't bother yourself with other people, you don't worry about having to face a loss. The Elves lives seem to be so great but truthfully, without loss and pain, there is no knowing true joy and happiness. I wouldn't trade my mortal life for anything.
:love:jen :love:
Scothia
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: August 28, 2002 09:07
I wanted to start this thread because death was considered the Gift to Men. Odd, isn't it, that as beings we always envy what others have? The Elves had immortality--but imagine the Noldor living thousands of years with the shame and sorrow of their rebellion--immortality isn't always what it's cracked up to be, eh?

And then that last Numenorean king--what's- his-name--was so seduced by the lust for immortality that he caused the whole destruction of Numenor by his grasping after it? How tragic!
Mithrodwen
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: August 29, 2002 06:38
Hmm I've thought about this. But thentheres a difference between being a immortal human and being an elf

Humans are stupid let's face it on the whole we are dumb as a post, espeacaily the choices we make. I wouldn't want to be an immortal human for nothing.

But to be an immortal elf? thats a different subject altogether. They are wise and beautiful...I don't think they shun other living beings because they are protecting themselfs I think its cause other beings are stupid and self involved. They do mix but keep a certain distance. I would love to be an elf just not a immortal human!
BondageOrc
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: August 29, 2002 11:23
I'd choose to be mortal. Seeing all my friends and loved ones die and being alone would be awful. I wouldn't want to be lonely...and I suppose I'd grow weary of the world eventually.
~Ascarantwen_the_Elf~
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: August 29, 2002 11:29
Good question.
I wouldn't want to be immortal, I think it would eventually lead to an inevitable suicide.
You would lose touch with your emotions, seeing everything else die.
I'd rather just have an extended life.
Aowyn
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: August 29, 2002 03:28
No way. It initially sounds cool, but when all the people you love are gone....look at the guy in Highlander!
Plus, I look forward to seeing my grandparents and my father again someday.....eventually. Death is a natural part of life.
Sofia_Brandybuck
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: August 29, 2002 06:15
I’d want to remain mortal…
I would never want to live forever and watch everyone I ever loved die, and me be left behind to spend eternity alone… nor would I want anyone else to.


[Edited on 30/8/2002 by Sofia_Brandybuck]
Parmadur
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: August 31, 2002 03:59
I would never accept immortality unless all of my loved ones (or one in particular) were also given the choice. My heart is too fragile; I couldn't watch everyone who was important to me die. Besides, I'm less curious about the future of the world than I am about what's after death. so... I'd stick with my mortality.
Rivka
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: September 01, 2002 09:23
I would only accept it if my husband could be immortal as well. I could accept everyone else dying around me if I had him with me.

There's so much to see and do in our world (and probably in M-E, too). To be immortal would give you the time and freedom to experience it all, which I would love to do. It wouldn't be worth it, though, if I didn't have the other half of me there to experience it with...
"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
Minuial
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: September 02, 2002 05:51
I couldn't possibly unless someone in particular could be immortal too. I'd jump at the chance if that were the case, but without her it would just seem...pointless.
Spidey
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: September 02, 2002 07:18
Some people look at immortality as a gift. Others as a curse. I look at immortality as a responsibility. I would want to be immortal. Live thru all the years of Middle Earth. Help shape the history of the ages to come. Then when I have accomplished enough,I shall dimish into the West and just live a simple life for eternity. For is being immortal not grant you human AND angel life?
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: September 09, 2002 03:00
the gift of men


indeed i liked that idea very much when i first read it.

i would not choose immortality. after all as we age alot of happiness has an underlying sadness with it, i should imagine if that went on one would either stop caring or become overwhelmed with grief, much in the same way many of tolkeins elves seem to.

BelleBayard
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: September 09, 2002 04:16
Hmm... As a nurse, I've been around death a great deal, both family and patients. Yes, it would be terribly hard to live past every one you knew, but there are always new people to meet and love. I think I could live with immortality (but as Rivka said, I'd want at least one other loved one to be immortal with me). Even in universes where Elves aren't immortal, their expanded lives make human/Elf pairing difficult. However, I feel that even if humans live relatively short lives, to know them and love them while the opportunity presents itself more than compensates for the grief of losing them. Make the most of the time you have, no matter if mortal or immortal.

[Edited on 9/10/2002 by BelleBayard]
Spidey
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: September 09, 2002 04:47
But like I said before,being immortal is like a responsibility,not just eternal life. Like Gandalf said,"The question is what are you going to do with the time that is given to you?" You can use your extended life for evil..or for good. You can help make Middle Earth better,or you can bring it to its destruction. Immortality is a responsibility,not merely a gift.
Lady_Galadriel
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: September 15, 2002 05:42
i see immortality as a good and a bad thing. good that you would not having to worry about getting old and becoming ill-both not very nice. bad things watching friends who arent immortal dieing around you.
the thing is though being mortal we see all our family and friends die around us anyway, i think i would only want to be immortal if i was an elf. being in the world and being immortal i wouldnt like.
Spidey
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: September 15, 2002 12:58
But think of it this way. You can use your immortality for good. You can save people's lives,and help do things that mortals cannot do. I wouldn't be mortal if I was an elf becuase all elves do is sing and dance and it can get kinda boring after a while. Now if I was an immortal Dwarf that would be fun. Venturing thruout the land in search of riches.
pipsqueak
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: December 24, 2002 03:14
I'd not be...I'd live my normal span and die, prefferable a nice quiet death, like going to sleep. Immortality would bore me to death. Imagine, all the time of the world, watching it, people live, people die, history repeat and rerepeat. Technology advance, but you'd always think back how it used to be. And then being so utterly bored once you've done it all. Not me...I'd like to have fun while I lived, then die. If my job's over, then I'd have no use.
skyfiery
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: December 25, 2002 08:38
Well, I'd think that both have their advantages and disadvantages, or joys and sorrows.

Being Mortal means that we don't have to suffer that much, that we can look forward to a release from sorrow. We can also experience joy in the short span of our lives. But there are too many things that we cannot do, cannot fufill.

Being an Immortal does mean that we can do all we wish, but we also see all the sorrows of the world, more than the joys, mostly.

This reminds me of the "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth," where Andreth says that at least the Hunter (Death) of the Elves is slow-footed, whereas the Hunter is fast for men. Elves still die in the end, when Arda does. Men just leave it faster.

So maybe what I would wish for is for a life span about twice or thrice that of the Numenoreans, so I have more time to do what I want but still die in the end.

Sky
teleriferchnyfain
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: December 25, 2002 10:58
Elvenkind in Tolkien has exactly the type of immortality I'd be happy to accept - the kind that occurs because Elves don't age. They can die - in battle, for instance, or through choice - Arwen, Luthien, etc.
I already have thoughts on our own immortality - either we reincarnate & can't remember or we can remember but aren't in the world kind of annoyance. So, I'd like to remember - in other words I'd accept immortality.
BB
Teleri

[Edited on 26/12/2002 by teleriferchnyfain]
Navalina
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: December 27, 2002 12:11
That's a though question.I don't wont to be mortal,I don't want to die.But I don't want to be immortal either.What I would like,is to be mortal,but that my life lasts longer.That I become 500 years or something like that and then die.To be immortal seems so weird.I mean,to never die.That doesn't seem so appealing to me.
rhia
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: December 30, 2002 03:00
It's such a hard question. I would love to be able to travel the world and be like Elrond and collect information. But I don't think I could live with the responsibility of the fact that I'll have to live with the conciquinces my actions make till the end of time.

I'd have to say I'd want to be a Numunorean and pray i don't go all Ar-Pharzon (the last king of Numenor who waged war on the Valar) on anyone.
ashe
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: January 03, 2003 05:44
I'd accept Immortality. But only if i had someone to share it with. I don't think i could handle being alone for eternity. You'd have no one to share you happiness and triumps with. If the immortality offered to me was that of the elves in ME then i would take it. You'd always have other elves around so you would never be alone.

On the other hand, to die would be a great adventure. Honesly death itself doesn't sound that great.

It's like the old saying goes, "Everybody wants to get to Heavan, but nobody wants to die."
Undomiel241
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: January 09, 2003 03:30
To be immortal, especially to be an Elf (fairest of all creatures), would be amazing. The things I could see, the people I could meet, getting to see an infinite number of sunrises and sunsets would be very hard to reject. However, after reading The Silmarillion and thinking of all the grief I would see, I don't feel it's something I could handle. Galadriel, one of the Noldor to leave Valinor in exile, is full of grief and has seen more sadness by living in Middle Earth than I could ever wish to know. Like most people, I'd wish for a greatly expanded lifespan, so that I could do everything I wanted to. Like Ashe said dying would be a great adventure; we don't know what comes after life, maybe it's our individual paradise (ME First-Age for me). Besides, would we realize how great a gift life is if we could live forever?
Elena
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: January 10, 2003 11:50
No brainer for me. Mortality, definitely. I would never want to be immortal. You'd gather pain your entire life. There would never be an end to it. It wouldn't really be a full life, either, because life by nature is meant to go full circle.

Plus, it would get boring. Do everything, see everything, and watch it change. To take words from Tolkien, being "bound forever within the circles of the world" sounds really bad, and "as the ages waned, even the Powers would envy" death, which I can believe.
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: January 11, 2003 09:41
I think I would choose to be immortal. Although death and memories can sometimes be hard, it would be worth watching the world grow and be able to offer advice and knowledge on what has happened and what might come to be.

Lisa
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: January 12, 2003 02:46
Immortality would drive me mad.

I could not put up with all my family and friends dying and eventually I would get too depressed to continue. I would also be dying to know (pun very much intended) what happens after death and I would never be able to find out.

Plus, after everything's said and done, it's really the fear of death that makes life worth living. Think about it, the thrill of rollercoasters, extreme sports, etc. is that in the back of your mind you know there is a chance you might not survive. It doesn't matter how safe it is, it's that fear which gives it the thrill. But if you can never die, the thrill is gone, so what's the point?
Shastia
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: December 08, 2003 05:43
I think that immortality would lead to great lonelyness. It would just be prople you saw die, but everything- flowers trees animals. You would see so much stupidity and sorrow and pain that it would make life itself seem futile. Death was given as a gift for a reason.

(Though it wouldn't be that bad in the undying lands of course, I'm talking about here.)
Morwinyoniel
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: December 08, 2003 06:42
Immortality may sound great, especially if one could be immortal in the Blessed Realm. But, sooner or later, it would probably start to feel like a burden - there would be nothing new to expect from life anymore. So, after all, I wouldn't want to be immortal.

To live a long mortal life of a few hundred years, and be able to let go of it while still being of sound mind, like the Númenoreans, would be my ideal choice.
Legolas11111
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: January 18, 2004 04:45
I,d have to agree with everyone who said that if they were human they would choose to be mortal and if they were elf-kind they would choose to be immorta.l Lets face it humans are more suseptable to doing or making wrong chocies But then again all races have their ups and downs.
PotbellyHairyfoot
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: January 19, 2004 04:55
Lets face it humans are more suseptable to doing or making wrong chocies

I for one can't agree with that . I know of a lot of poor choices made by elves, from Feanor's many issues with the Valar, his brothers and others, right up until the elves of Eregion chose to accept Sauron's help and advice, there are many examples of elves not being the 'wise' beings they seem to have become by the Third Age. (I'm currently addressing the topic of 'elves that go wrong' in my spare time and will add more on this topic at some time in the future) There are many examples, especially in The Silmarillion, of elves that show selfishness, jealousy and pettiness etc. certainly on a par with the worst of mankind, if not even worse then men- as they have so much more time to spend on it due to their immortality.
Tinúmelë
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: January 21, 2004 06:33
To live a long mortal life of a few hundred years, and be able to let go of it while still being of sound mind, like the Númenoreans, would be my ideal choice.


I would have to agree with that. After all, the Numenoreans were the fairest mortal beings, were wise, had a long life span yet were eventually able to leave the world. And they weren't subject to sickness either. If you ask me, they had the best of everything. They were just foolish not to realise it.
hobbithole_dweller
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: January 26, 2004 10:22
I would choose to be mortal. I don't want to be in this realm any longer than I have to (can you tell I'm having a bad week?). I wound count down the days until the grey ships appeared on the horizon.

But if someone offered my the chance to leave on the ship for Valinor and the catch was that I had to leave now, not near the end of my life, I'm not sure what I would do. There would be some hesitation but in the end....I think I would board the ship.
Eressëa
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Post RE: Would you accept this Gift?-keep
on: January 31, 2004 01:50
Hmmm, quite a difficult question come to think of, but still, after hours of pondering i still think my answer would be immortality. I think both alternatives have good and bad sides, but I have always feared that I wouldn't have enough time to live to be able to experience all that I want. Being immortal would definently pu a stopper that worry. I think it would be amazing to be immortal, whether it was nowadays or in the time of elves, preferring the latter myself, hm. Just think of all the wisdom and skill one could gain.
Ooh, already imagining how it would be to wander in the fair woods of Lothlorien (I don't know why, but somehow Valinor doesn't appeal as much to me as Middle Earth, it would be more as a place I'd go from time to time when I needed to think deep -especially after the loss of Laurelin and Telperion)
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