Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Movies Discussion » Discuss the Movies » ROTK Sequence by Sequence #3: Arwen / Rivendell
12
Author Topic:
Argonath
Council Member
Posts: 21
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #3: Arwen / Rivendell
on: August 02, 2005 04:56
I am likely to get lynched for saying this, but since it bears on the current discussion and thoughts of Alatariel1013:

Perhaps the changes made wasn't only to accommodate the non-bookies. Perhaps it was also that it actually was better story-wise. Period. Listening to the DVD appendices it is clear that it was important to PJ and the writers to have each character make a "journey", that is to change and evolve throughout the story. In the book, such a journey does not take place - at least not to the same extent - for several of the characters (Aragorn, Arwen, Faramir just to mention a couple). In my opinion, the movies gains a lot for having these journeys and the book stands the poorer, relatively speaking, for not having them.

My point is that the changes might well have been made to actually improve the actual storyline, not just to make more sense to non-bookies. My opinion is that the developed story-line of the movie actually is better and more believable than that of the book. That is not to say Tolkien did a bad job, absolutely not. First, he wrote the book in a very different time. Second, let's say he contributed the first 90 % of quality to the story-line. PJ & Co added on to this and made it 95%. Without the first 90 however, PJ wouldn't have gotten far.

For those being very conservative and purist to the book, this will not strike any positive chords, I guess.

[Edited on 2/8/2005 by Argonath]
Arwen seeing Eldarion in the woods
44% (2)
Arwen returnin to her father and getting angry at him
7% (4)
the conversation between father and daughter about the future
8% (5)
Arwen fading
3% (2)
Arwen looking at Narsil and quoting the poem
18% (1)
the re-forging of the Shards
13% (8)
none of it - I don't like Arwen
7% (4)
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #3: Arwen / Rivendell
on: August 02, 2005 09:13
Well, I've always considered myself a bookie, but I do agree with you Argonath - I love some things that were changed, because they make the story so much more interesting. (ARAGORN! God, but he was boring in the books!)

Some things really can't be forgiven though (like Faramir, even Walsh and Boyens admitted to regretting that in the end), but I can see why some changes just make more sense when you're telling the story like it's a movie.
Alatariel1013
Council Member
Posts: 23
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #3: Arwen / Rivendell
on: August 02, 2005 12:32
For those being very conservative and purist to the book, this will not strike any positive chords, I guess.


You're right about that. I still love the movies, but some changes they made, were, to me, completely unnecessary. (Faramir, the age of the hobbits and their relations, Arwen's scenes, Aragorn not wanting to be king....) But that's another discussion for another time.
By the way, in the books, if I remember correctly, Elrond gave Arwen and Aragorn his blessing. He saw that it was their destiny and even though it grieved him that Arwen was going to become mortal, he knew that it was fate. But in the movie, they made him angry about it, and he tried to convince his daughter to do otherwise. That was unnecessary, thought I suppose they were trying to make the movie more emotional. :cry:
Figwit
Book Club Moderator & Misty Mountain Monster
Posts: 1966
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #3: Arwen / Rivendell
on: August 02, 2005 11:17
By the way, in the books, if I remember correctly, Elrond gave Arwen and Aragorn his blessing. He saw that it was their destiny and even though it grieved him that Arwen was going to become mortal, he knew that it was fate. But in the movie, they made him angry about it, and he tried to convince his daughter to do otherwise. That was unnecessary, thought I suppose they were trying to make the movie more emotional. :cry:


Well, he doesn't just jump at the chance to get rid of her
He actually tells Aragorn that only the King of Gondor and Arnor would be good enough for her - hence the 'Arwen-is-Aragorn's-hidden-force' lecture that Arwen fans like to give (and with which I agree, btw).

I didn't like Elrond in the movies though, he was bitter (when he talks about Men) and manipulative (with Arwen) - just not the kind, wise leader I imagined him to be from the books.

On the other hand, as a human being, it's easier to relate to movie Elrond than book Elrond, who basically sees Arwen's wedding as a possible carreermove for his fosterson...
Argonath
Council Member
Posts: 21
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #3: Arwen / Rivendell
on: August 03, 2005 12:53
I didn't like Elrond in the movies though, he was bitter (when he talks about Men)


Yeah, especially considering it was Elves that created the damn Rings in the first place. Making it meaningful for Sauron to create the One Ring.

"Never trust an Elf!"
Dolen_i_vad_a_nin
Council Member
Posts: 56
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #3: Arwen / Rivendell
on: August 03, 2005 05:20
I loved the way they created more story for Arwen in ROTK. I picked for my favourite scene when Arwen confronts her father.
"You saw there was a child. You saw my son!"

This line is so powerful!
GlaedEaren
Council Member
Posts: 1
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #3: Arwen / Rivendell
on: August 25, 2005 09:07
- Did you like this way of getting Arwen into the story? Would you have done it differently?

No, I thought this was a very intresting way of working her in, the scene where she sees her son in the woods introduces her relationship with Aragorn aswell as being a fantastic and heartrending scene! I couldn't choose my favourite between that scene and the "Your hands are cold" scene... waaaah!!!! :cry: so sad!

- How about Elrond - mean big monster? Caring daddy?

I think he only seems bitter at frist because he can't bear the thought of losing his daughter... his only daughter... forever, but he knows he has to in the end. As soon as he realises in "Your hands are cold" scene that if he doesn't act soon, Arwen is going to die, he faces up to the facts. So big mean caring Daddy.

- Did you like this way of re-introducing Narsil?

Yes. And I'm so glad they qoted the poem!

- What's missing here?

Nothing. It does all it's jobs; Arwen's love for Aragorn, her undying hope, the reforging of the sword, Arwen becoming mortal. It's a lovely sequence.
Council Member
Posts: 4948
Send Message
Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #3: Arwen / Rivendell
on: November 12, 2005 10:55
This was incredibly difficult for me because I think all of these scenes are absolutely beautiful. I really liked the way Arwen was worked into the story more & I wouldn't have done it differently.

But I voted for Arwen seeing Eldarion in the woods. The entire scene is well done & very emotional. It is one that now comes to mind every time I think of Return of the King.

I also liked Arwen quoting the poem. Like Legolas{Greenleaf} said, things just fitted perfectly together - music, images etc. A great scene.
MerryandPip
Council Member
Posts: 717
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #3: Arwen / Rivendell
on: November 14, 2005 12:04
I thought the music for the Eldarion scenes was very beautiful! What was with her necklace around his neck? I never got that.
crystalarwen
Council Member
Posts: 90
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: ROTK Sequence by Sequence #3: Arwen / Rivendell
on: July 23, 2009 11:49
Arwen reciting the poem, hands down. When I heard it the first time, I nearly jumped out of my seat in excitement. The music, the images on the screen, and her voice reciting it fit so perfectly together. PJ did an excellent job on this sequence.

Peace~


You are absolutely right! This scene was beautiful and I got shivers when Arwen recited the poem and the shards of Narsil glinted in the light.

However, I choose Arwen seeing Eldarion in the woods. First of all, Arwen's cloak is beautiful and makes the scene more ethreal. Then I like her expression and the flashback to what her father said the night before. Finally a tear streaks down her face and she opens her eyes.
12
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email