Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Books Discussion » Discuss the Books » Pity
12
Author Topic:
orthanc5
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 120
Send Message
Avatar
Post Pity
on: April 29, 2005 05:58
Which characters (if any) in Tolkien's works do you feel sorry for? I just finished Narn i Hin Hurin this morning in Unfinished Tales, and I felt sorry for Brandir. Turin comes in, practically takes control of his land, and then people are accusing him of things he never did at the end.
Annûniel
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 417
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: April 29, 2005 06:20
Anacalimë. The poor child suffered from the stubborness of her parents. She'd done absolutely nothing wrong and yet her mother, Erendis decided to teach her to hate men and such...

Such a sad tale, poor child
Council Member
Posts: 4948
Send Message
Post RE: Pity
on: April 29, 2005 06:39
Aldarion, Erendis & of course their daughter, Anacalimë.
pv
Council Member
Posts: 523
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: April 29, 2005 01:51
I felt sorry for Faramir, Eomer and Eowyn - all living with mad fathers who made their lives miserable. Let that be a lesson to us, not to be nasssty parents!
http://monstersandcritics.wordpress.com/
Nick_5
Council Member
Posts: 364
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: April 29, 2005 04:33
Gollum
MerryandPip
Council Member
Posts: 717
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: April 30, 2005 05:01
I think I feel sorry for Faramir the most. His father loves his brother more than him and nearly fries him to a crisp!
pv
Council Member
Posts: 523
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: April 30, 2005 03:54
I agree with Count Nick. With readers of Tolkien, Gollum is one of the author's most popular characters, and I read somewhere that Andy Serkis was terribly nervous about playing him in the movie because of that.

In LotR, Frodo asks Gandalf why Gollum was not killed, and Gandalf talks of pity and mercy. There's also that bit in Mordor, when Sam is tempted to kill Gollum, but can't do it, and shouts at him, instead! Frodo also protects Gollum from Faramir and his men. The elves of Lorien don't shoot at Gollum because they don't know if he's a good or evil creature.

It seems that wherever Gollum goes, people are tempted to kill him, but something stops them. It could be that these are all good people with a strong sense of fairness. But it could also be that there's a positive side of Gollum that they're all responding to.

It calls for a lot of understanding to see the good side of a creature as nasssty as Gollum. Not one of the people who showed him mercy expected to be repaid for their kindness to Gollum. But Gollum literally saves Middle Earth for them. If not for him, Frodo and Sam could not have got to Mordor and could not have destroyed the One Ring.

http://monstersandcritics.wordpress.com/
Sam_Gamgee
Council Member
Posts: 157
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: April 30, 2005 06:57
Well I have only read LOTR so besides Gollum I would say Bill the Pony. When they first came across him he was under the horrible care of his former master. I felt really sad for him, not being fed properly and not being loved. So naturally I was really happy when he came under the care of Sam and Frodo.
atalante_star
Scholar of Imladris and Theodens Lady
Posts: 1365
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 01, 2005 12:00
Gwindor, Maedhros, Fëanor (of course!), everyone caught under Morgoth's or Sauron's spells at any point. Gríma. Denethor. Faramir.

And Gollum.

[Edited on 1/5/2005 by atalante_star]
varun
Council Member
Posts: 4
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 01, 2005 08:00
Turin son of Hurin, of course, who else in all the Tolkien's world have such a sad life? :cry:
orthanc5
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 120
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 01, 2005 09:13
Gwindor


Yeah, definitely Gwindor.
Felnor
Council Member
Posts: 115
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 01, 2005 11:00
I felt pretty bad for Beleg Strongbow. what a sad ending for such a good elf? also Gwindor and to an extent Gollum through ive always thought him to be more of a pathetic existants than a life (after he gets the ring obviously)
ArFeiniel
Council Member
Posts: 116
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 02, 2005 12:40
Turin Turambar and his sister Nienor. What a tragic ending to two very tragic lives!

And I agree with Felnor also. Poor Beleg Strongbow. I think he was probably my favorite "non-main" character in the Sil.

[Edited on 4/5/2005 by ArFeiniel]
Annûniel
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 417
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 02, 2005 03:05
Turin Turambar and his sister Nienna. What a tragic ending to two very tragic lives!

I think you mean, Nienor. Nienna is one of the Valar Queens.
ArFeiniel
Council Member
Posts: 116
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 03, 2005 02:48
Oops. No spell check on a forum! :blush: Not that it would make any difference. Glad you knew what I meant. And it's all fixed now.
hobbitnamedeliza
Council Member
Posts: 148
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 03, 2005 03:05
My deepest sympathy is ever for Frodo...but also for Sam. Sometimes it's harder to watch a loved one suffer than it is to be the sufferer.

I don't feel much sympathy for Gollum, I'm afraid--especially the Gollum of literature, who is tremendously evil and treacherous.

Oddly, though, I DO feel a certain sympathy for Grima. I find the scene where Saruman humiliates him in front of Frodo so very wrenching...it's almost unreadable. I guess Gollum seems to have a self-possesion and determination in his actions that Grima doesn't seem to have the capacity for....yet, as Gandalf says, they are both "small and mean..." There may not really be that much difference.

I think the reference to Gollum robbing cradles for food just always terrifies me and makes it difficult for ME to pity him. Of course Bilbo is a different story....he knew Gollum only through his own encounter with him and gave his wretchedness the benefit of the doubt. Tolkien doesn't give the reader that luxury, so we are all the more convicted when push comes to shove...of COURSE, I'd have killed the monster if I'd been Sam--and therefore, the ring would never have been destroyed.

It's all very humbling, isn't it?
Ilfa
Surrealism of Arda
Posts: 1234
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 03, 2005 10:47
actually i don't feel pity for gollum, its just right for him because he's so mean

i feel pity for faramir who had his love fo his father but doesn't have the love back...
Annûniel
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 417
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 04, 2005 05:16
I agree, hobbitnamedeliza and Ilfa! I never felt much pity for Gollum either.

Though his life was a very sad story, he was in fact an evil creature. He killed his own cousin for the Ring, which you might say is all the Ring's fault... but then why didn't Thorin and the other dwarves ever try to take the Ring from Bilbo? Why didn't Merry, Sam, or Pippin ever try to take the Ring from Frodo? Aragorn? Legolas? Gimli? The members of the Fellowship weren't tempted by the Ring (save Boromir), so why was Sméagol? He was tempted by the Ring even when it wasn't really trying to get back to Sauron.

Not to mention the fact that he had planned killing Frodo and Sam in Shelob's lair all along... *cough* Getting off subject.
Council Member
Posts: 4948
Send Message
Post RE: Pity
on: May 04, 2005 05:26
I don't feel much sympathy for Gollum, I'm afraid--especially the Gollum of literature, who is tremendously evil and treacherous.

I'm a little bit afraid of Gollum, too! Unfortunately, though, it was the Ring that made him evil and treacherous, so I do pity him for falling under it's power. Probably in the same way that I pity anyone who's addicted to something, and can't enjoy life as much as they could. Smeagol was meant to be a good creature, but his life was basically ruined when he became addicted to the Ring. His life wasn't his own anymore, and he wasn't free to lead it the way he wanted to. That seems very pitifull to me.

I guess I also pity the whole race of the Noldor, and how they got caught up in this hopeless, devastating battle against Morgoth. In Valinor they had been so blessed, and by becoming estranged from the gods, they suffered a huge loss.
varun
Council Member
Posts: 4
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 04, 2005 09:42
He killed his own cousin for the Ring


As far as i can remember it was his friend and not cousin. But all the same he did kill a person for the ring. so no pity for him.
Celebrian
Council Member
Posts: 420
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 31, 2005 09:45
I've felt pity for a number of characters, many of whom have already been mentioned. I would like to return to Denethor, though. He was not a man intrinsically evil, for all he ended up doing some terrible things. He was a man with his back against a wall and, in looking for answers, looked in the wrong place. It is a thing that has happened to many people many times. In fact, his situation seems to me one of the most relevant to real life.
RiverWoman
Council Member
Posts: 120
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 31, 2005 10:08
Certainly Turin and Nienor. Also Denethor, although I will admit I dind't feel that sorry for him until after I had children of my own and could start to realize how losing a child could send you into madness.

Although his downfall was already accomplished, through his over-pride in thinking he was strong enough to use the Palantir.
lanfear
Craziness' Guidance Counsellor
Posts: 446
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 31, 2005 11:21
In that I feel pity for Saruman, he should have been one of the greatest forces for good but his wish for learning and his pride led him into darkness. That makes me pity him because rather than becoming who he should have been, he worked against all that he should have been fighting to protect.
TinaHalfelven
Council Member
Posts: 65
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 31, 2005 01:59
I feel sorry for Morgoth- he was only evil because of Iluvatar's thought and he was forever persecuted. I also feel sorry for those of Feanor's sons who did not want to take the oath.
LadyBeruthiel
Council Member
Posts: 94
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 31, 2005 02:17
I've always thought Gollum was pathetic, and I think "addicted" is the perfect word to describe him. He's so strung-out he'll sacrifice anything, even his better self, to his own need/desire.

Denethor, I think, is a more tragic figure. He's strong, noble, wise, and dedicated to his duty. I think he used the Palantir to seek the knowledge he would need to defend Gondor--and was betrayed by his own best intentions.

Wow, there's a paradox--Middle Earth is saved by Gollum's evil designs and nearly destroyed by Denethor's good ones.

Ouch, excuse me, I think I just fried some brain cells...

:dizzy:
Tcherepin
Council Member
Posts: 103
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 31, 2005 07:35
The Ents break my heart...
dreamdancer
CoE Volunteer
Posts: 1226
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: May 31, 2005 07:54
Turin son of Hurin, of course, who else in all the Tolkien's world have such a sad life? :cry:


I agree. And Gwindor. and gollum.

but mostly Sam! I hate that he and Frodo were split up that way, after going through so much together. It makes my heart ache. I just want to give him a hug every time.
TinaHalfelven
Council Member
Posts: 65
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: June 01, 2005 01:39
Wow. After reading a bit mre of your guys' stuff I think I also feel sorry for Gollum and also for Gandalf, he seems so eager to help but a lot of people don't trust him, that must be hard. I also feel sorry for Eowyn and Faramir.:cry:
lanfear
Craziness' Guidance Counsellor
Posts: 446
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: June 01, 2005 02:18
The Ents break my heart...


Oh the Ents Tcherepin! I agree. Their race was oldest and the least damaging of all those in Middle-Earth, although they did have a good run so to speak, their fate, to be forgotten by nearly all, even themselves is a very sad one indeed.
Failië
Council Member
Posts: 287
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: June 01, 2005 04:14
I feel sorry for Galadriel.

And Gollum or, rather, Smeagol.

The Ents...oh the ents. I felt bad enough for them already when I found out about the Entwives. *Sniffle*
LadyBeruthiel
Council Member
Posts: 94
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: June 01, 2005 05:32
Whoa, wait a minute, TinaH! Why Eowyn and Faramir? They end up happy-ever-aftering in fair Ithilien. That's not so bad. Or did I miss something?
Failië
Council Member
Posts: 287
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: June 01, 2005 09:42
I think she means before they ended up living happily ever after.

In the movies, well the extended editions, I cried because of Denethor was so mean to Faramir.
Adablaer
Council Member
Posts: 27
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: June 03, 2005 01:05
Hmm, I'm not too brushed up on Tolkien's other stories, but in LOTR I feel bad for Gollum. He's just completely under the Ring's control, and I don't really believe he was evil. I definitely feel a little compassionate for Faramir, though mostly I admire him because even though his father always compared him with his brother he never felt any jealousy or resentment towards Boromir.

And also, and this will sound strange, I feel sorry for Arwen, and Galadriel, and all the Elves. Knowing that everything they love will eventually wither, and that they themselves will either have to pass from the world or live eternally. And it must have been hard for Arwen to bear Aragorn's death.
TinaHalfelven
Council Member
Posts: 65
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: Pity
on: June 03, 2005 02:22
I agree with the thing about the Elves.

I feel bad for Eowyn because of the whole Grima and mad-Theoden thing.

I feel bad for Faramir because of Denethor favoring Boromir so blatantly.
Gwenniel
Council Member
Posts: 1393
Send Message
Post RE: Pity
on: February 03, 2010 07:19
For lots of people!

e.g. Eluré and Elurin, brothers of Elwing.
Image
12
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email