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Leoflic_Nightleaf
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Post Re: How could Sauron not at least even consider that the ring is being taken to be destroyed?
on: February 06, 2013 10:41
Or Sauron may simply be trapped in dark-matter, until science advances enough that someone discovers once more how to unleash him on the Earth. (Or Middle Earth, if the worlds be separate)
Grizzwald
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Post Re: How could Sauron not at least even consider that the ring is being taken to be destroyed?
on: February 06, 2013 10:54
Quote from Leoflic_Nightleaf on February 7, 2013, 08:41
Or Sauron may simply be trapped in dark-matter, until science advances enough that someone discovers once more how to unleash him on the Earth. (Or Middle Earth, if the worlds be separate)


Spare you I shall, but for your kindness. They are not separate. They are both in ones mind. Trapped forever is he. Not advance shall science, or someone, enough to unravel the maze. Sauron is dead, and shall not recover, not by any art that humans or those within the realm of middle-earth retain.

Read you will, but discover you shall not, unless by some art greater than his own.

Welcome I do, those which have yet entered the realm of Middle Earth, as it were. Welcome. Yea, welcome.
cirdaneth
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Post Re: How could Sauron not at least even consider that the ring is being taken to be destroyed?
on: February 07, 2013 12:00
Steady on, Grizzwold! Many of our members have English as a second language and all those thees and thous will confuse, and in any case are being seriously misused. They are fun, of course, but would make Tolkien cringe. Sorry.
Grizzwald
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Post Re: How could Sauron not at least even consider that the ring is being taken to be destroyed?
on: February 07, 2013 12:16
Quote from cirdaneth on February 7, 2013, 10:00
Steady on, Grizzwold! Many of our members have English as a second language and all those thees and thous will confuse, and in any case are being seriously misused. They are fun, of course, but would make Tolkien cringe. Sorry.


Very well. I will lower my speech.

Fun I do not seek, the thought of making the dead cringe is unjust in my mind. Tolkien, may he forgive me, speak now unto those who are wary and seek. Speak and be known justly.

So is my word. So shall be heard. Forgive me if such is unjust. I ask only of the so called humans to be wary, wary of thouest cause to preach. If such is not unknown, if such is not mislaid in thus my deed.

Have I spoken too soon that vengeance is upon me? Or is there thou that will yet understand? I sincerely hope so. That is all. Forgive me.

edit* cirdaneth, it is Grizzwald, not Grizzwold.
Elthir
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Post Re: How could Sauron not at least even consider that the ring is being taken to be destroyed?
on: February 07, 2013 12:50
We are no longer arguing Elthir, on which can or cannot be destroyed. Only that of which concerns the book or Tolkiens writings.


Never claimed you were still arguing, and in fact I noted that both you and Tarcolan had already explained what you meant.
Grizzwald
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Post Re: How could Sauron not at least even consider that the ring is being taken to be destroyed?
on: February 07, 2013 12:52
Never claimed you were still arguing, and in fact I noted that both you and Tarcolan had already explained what you meant.


For that I am grateful. *Bows*
Grizzwald
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Post Re: How could Sauron not at least even consider that the ring is being taken to be destroyed?
on: February 07, 2013 01:36
I await now only tarcolan's response. What say you, tarcolan?
tarcolan
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Post Re: How could Sauron not at least even consider that the ring is being taken to be destroyed?
on: February 07, 2013 03:03
Thanks Lord_Sauron for the ref. We live and learn. Thanks also Elthir for the relevant passages from HoME, which many of us don't have. Tolkien seems to be having second thoughts here, so unlike him eh? Most writers don't have that luxury.
I speak now unto those who hath yet to understand me.
Perhaps if you dropped the Chaucerian/Yoda speke, Grizzwald, it might help. I thought I'd stumbled into the RPG forum for a moment. I think I got one thing though, that we should only be concerned with the books that Tolkien actually published himself, as it's not clear whether he would have published the later ideas. Generally I'd agree. I'd also like to apologise again for dragging us off-topic. Sauron's status had been discussed in another thread some time ago and it was agreed that he wouldn't be coming back. In my defense I'd say that the idea of Sauron's total defeat was slow in coming to Tolkien. In that chapter 2 he says ".. if you really want to destroy it, to put it beyond his grasp forever." and with the previous quotes mentioned from the Council it's interesting to wonder when exactly the idea took full form.

Now to the Ring. I have had a quick look through the book but haven't been able to find where it's said that the Ring is trying to get back to its Master. I'll keep looking. It is said that Sauron was trying to find it or draw it to him. You might say this amounts to the same thing. He certainly put a lot of effort into searching for it if all he had to do was wait. So I'd still say that Sauron would not immediately think of the Ring when he learned of intruders getting in to Mordor. He had plenty of troops to deal with that sort of thing. I agree he might have given it some thought when he later realised one at least was a hobbit.

Sauron's awareness of the Ring, or lack of, is a moot point. You'd think he would have noticed when Sam used it, at least. That's enough for now I think.
Hangman Helper program
Grizzwald
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Post Re: How could Sauron not at least even consider that the ring is being taken to be destroyed?
on: February 07, 2013 03:23
Quote from tarcolan on February 7, 2013, 13:03
Thanks Lord_Sauron for the ref. We live and learn. Thanks also Elthir for the relevant passages from HoME, which many of us don't have. Tolkien seems to be having second thoughts here, so unlike him eh? Most writers don't have that luxury.
I speak now unto those who hath yet to understand me.
Perhaps if you dropped the Chaucerian/Yoda speke, Grizzwald, it might help. I thought I'd stumbled into the RPG forum for a moment. I think I got one thing though, that we should only be concerned with the books that Tolkien actually published himself, as it's not clear whether he would have published the later ideas. Generally I'd agree. I'd also like to apologise again for dragging us off-topic. Sauron's status had been discussed in another thread some time ago and it was agreed that he wouldn't be coming back. In my defense I'd say that the idea of Sauron's total defeat was slow in coming to Tolkien. In that chapter 2 he says ".. if you really want to destroy it, to put it beyond his grasp forever." and with the previous quotes mentioned from the Council it's interesting to wonder when exactly the idea took full form.

Now to the Ring. I have had a quick look through the book but haven't been able to find where it's said that the Ring is trying to get back to its Master. I'll keep looking. It is said that Sauron was trying to find it or draw it to him. You might say this amounts to the same thing. He certainly put a lot of effort into searching for it if all he had to do was wait. So I'd still say that Sauron would not immediately think of the Ring when he learned of intruders getting in to Mordor. He had plenty of troops to deal with that sort of thing. I agree he might have given it some thought when he later realised one at least was a hobbit.

Sauron's awareness of the Ring, or lack of, is a moot point. You'd think he would have noticed when Sam used it, at least. That's enough for now I think.


Well said. I think I may have been getting a little too involved in role playing, even now I am trying to prevent myself from doing so.

I will try to find the quote where it says the ring is trying to get back to it's master, until then, dunno..

thanks again.
Grizzwald
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Post Re: How could Sauron not at least even consider that the ring is being taken to be destroyed?
on: February 07, 2013 11:31
Wow. Came home drunk last night. Started posting. Very cringyworthy.. ahh well..sorry.
cirdaneth
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Post Re: How could Sauron not at least even consider that the ring is being taken to be destroyed?
on: February 07, 2013 02:07
OK! Enough! I am locking the thread. Sorry to those of you who wanted to discuss the subject seriously. Drunkenness may be a reason but is never an excuse. We have many members as young as 13 and we are expected to set a good example. Some are in situations where alcohol is not funny, and others are of faiths that forbid it.

Sorry about the public dressing-down, but I want this seen by others who might be similarly tempted.

Oh, and Grizzwald, sorry for mispelling your name and confusing you with the pesksy bulldog from the Top-Cat cartoon.
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