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M_Brandybuck
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Post POLL-Boromir
on: May 08, 2003 01:42
I can't make up my mind about Boromir. Is he good, just corrupted or is he flat out naughty?:evil:
good/corrupted
94% (1)
bad boy
6% (8)
BoromirsBabe
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 08, 2003 05:52
he's a big bad boy!!!! :evil:
Faramirs_first_kiss
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 08, 2003 06:43
He's good, I tells ya! Good! Okay, so he's not the brightest of bunnies and he's not the quickest at catching on (at the Council, for example), but he's valiant and noble , just flawed like any other human. I don't see how there can be any doubt after he sees his mistake with Frodo and makes up for it by giving his life. Gotta love them brothers!
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BoromirsBabe
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 08, 2003 06:57
Of course he's good, I agree, but he's also baaaad
Figwit
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 08, 2003 11:02
he's neither
Ainulindale
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 09, 2003 12:43
He's...human.
Aniron_Valandil
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 09, 2003 02:24
I agree with faramirs first kiss. He's only human, in the end he redeemed himself.
Cressida
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 09, 2003 02:40
I think the movie Boromir is better in some ways than the book version. In the book, I very much got the feeling that his fall was largely due to his own pride and pigheadedness. He always seemed to think he knew better than anyone else in the Fellowship, and he ignored the good advice of Gandalf, Elrond, and Aragorn. He insisted in one scene that "true-hearted men" could be trusted to use the Ring responsibly. It reminded me of the attitude of some people who get hooked on drugs--"Other people might be weak, but I can handle this."

In the movie, they de-emphasized these parts of his personality (although they are still there) and emphasized his desire to help Gondor. They have also made the Ring out to be more compelling in the movie than it is in the book. It seems like the book-Ring just speaks to people and can be resisted fairly easily if your priorities are straight (see Sam in ROTK); but the movie-Ring actually grabs people's brains and requires a lot of effort to resist (see Frodo's behavior in the TTT movie). So I think Boromir makes less of a conscious decision in the movie than he does in the book. It's more that the Ring is pulling him in a certain direction, and he doesn't see any reason to resist.

In both the movie and the book, though, I think he was basically a good guy.
Plantagenet
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 09, 2003 02:54
He's...human.


Well, yeah, I agree, I think
Veaglarwen
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 09, 2003 08:59
Mods Note:
9. Please do not post single line posts (things like only saying "I agree" or "LOL that's so funny") or pointless posts just to raise your post count. This is known as "post slutting" and we don't like it.
Hey guys, sorry to break in here, but please try to add supporting information to your posts...not just one liner. Please state why you believe he's evil or corrupted, rather than just saying Yay or Nay
Veaglarwen
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 09, 2003 09:01
Incedentally, I believe that Boromir is good. He was so upset about what was going on and the happenings that he rode all the way from his home to Rivendell to seek help. When he got there, he was genuinly concerned. He's human indeed...corruption happens.
M_Brandybuck
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 09, 2003 04:07
Dear Figwit,
If he is not good or bad, then what is he? Split personalities? Crazy?:dizzy:
Figwit
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 10, 2003 06:27
Dear Figwit,
If he is not good or bad, then what is he? Split personalities? Crazy?:dizzy:


no one is either good or bad, and just saying he's human is the easy way out

Boromir, as a person (and I'm talking bookwise now, because as Cressida pointed out there are a lot of differences between Book and Movie Boromir), is very complicated. A lot of forces are at work here.

First of all, he's Denethor's soon, born and raised to lead the city after his death. The City is thus his sole focus of attention - and since he's not a scholar like Faramir, but a soldier, he thinks in only one way: a military, almost blinding way of thinking that lacks nuance.

He's also a very proud man, but not because he thinks he's such a hero, but because of an innate sense of slefdepreciation. He boatst too much and too easily, he's stubborn and proud and he refuses against good reason to accept council: all these are traits of a self depreciative personality. (Probably linked to Gondor's precarious situation and the bond with his father).

There's also another side to his personality, one that makes up for all the rest: he's a man of honour, who has a deep sense of responsibility and loyalty. His end, his redemption (defending the Hobbits and admitting his failure to Aragorn) shows his great moral and psychological strength.

Nowhere does he 'go bad', or 'become evil'. He makes concious decision, fully in control. This is not so in the Movie - and it makes him more sympathetic I guess. But I have always believed it his greatest strength that he kept a clear head, that he made a decision - a wrong, fatal decision, but his own none the less.

will this do Veaglarwen, for an explanation?
Veaglarwen
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 10, 2003 02:10
LOL..Yes, figwit..that was a very good explanation! LOL. Now, i know that most of you all get that sense in the movie thought that he was a weakling when it came to owning the universe. But i just don't think that was so. I mean...first of all, consider who he's traveling with.

Aragorn - Isildur's heir....could possibly take the family of boromir out of control.

Gandalf - all powerful Istari...weilder of the secret flame. Could take boromir out in one snap of the finger...although he woudln't have.

Legolas...prince of Mirkwood.

Gimli - son of Gloin...descendant of the royal lineage of the King of the Drawves King Náin II.

That's all i can really think of at the moment because the four hobbits were of normal lineage...although famous in their own unique ways. At any rate...perhaps he felt a bit hopeless...and powerless amongst his peers, and the thought of controlling the ring made him comforted. Not for evil purposes.

Haven't you all had dreams of saving the day? I mean, that doesn't make you evil...it just makes you normal. Human.
morgana03
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 10, 2003 04:11
I know I should stay away from anything to do with Boromir cause I just don't like him(Wait before the pies start being thrown) BUT I do agree that he's essentially a good guy at heart and was corrupted by the power of the Ring.
Figwit
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 10, 2003 09:05
I do agree that he's essentially a good guy at heart and was corrupted by the power of the Ring.


well, personally, that's the only problem I have with Movie Boromir (well, that and the colour of his hair): I believe that Boromir wasn't corrupted at all.

The Ring is a chance, an opportunity, and a powerful weapon. Something you'd want, to protect your city, to save hundreds even thousands of people under your direct leadership, under your protection.

There are side-effects, it is said, there are risks. But you're not in a position where you actually comprehend these risks, and you're desperate to find a way to be a good soldier, a good captain, a good steward.

What do you do? Do you believe a bunch of Elves that you've never seen before, and a shabby wizard, who say that this powerful weapon should be destroyed? Or do you listen to your own heart, that tells you that this could be the only chance you'll ever get to find a weapon powerful enough to protect your people?

Power does that to people, and fear too. It's a dangerous combination: dangerous, because, as Gandalf says, one would 'take it out of a desire to do good'.

So Boromir is basically a very good guy, who's faced with a horibble choice. What if he doesn't take the Ring? What if he believes the others and returns to his city - with empty hands, because after Gandalf's fall it's become painfully clear that Aragorn's heart lies with the Hobbits more than with travelling to Minas Tirith? And what'll he find there? Death and destruction, and extreme vulnarability.
Every attack from Mordor on the city will be his fault. With every casualty he'll think: could I have prevented it? If I had taken the Ring and brought it here, could I have saved all these lives?

He's not corrupted, he comes to a decesion. We all know it's the wrong one, but he has no actual way of knowing it. We all trust Gandalf and Elrond - but why should he? He doesn't know them, and they don't know where he comes from, what his predicament is.


In the movies however, Peter Jackson chose to make the Ring a character, a living thing that influences... which power in the end is: it bends you to its will, it possesses its own fatal logic. And this change, as I noted before, changes Boromir for the better: it's not his fault, he's just a good guy who gets corrupted. But it really makes him lose - in my opinion - his own personality, and the reason why he failed is now mere weakness of the mind, in stead of the entire reasoning that I described above.

I am thrilled to see that more people like Boromir than they ever would based on the books. But like with everything in the movie, a dimension of psychological importance was lost in the adaptation...
Cressida
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 12, 2003 03:44
He's not corrupted, he comes to a decesion. We all know it's the wrong one, but he has no actual way of knowing it. We all trust Gandalf and Elrond - but why should he? He doesn't know them, and they don't know where he comes from, what his predicament is.

Just one quibble: We haven't seen ROTK yet, but there's no reason to think they will change the part about Gandalf knowing the Steward's family. Still, since Denethor doesn't trust Gandalf and Boromir shares a lot of Denethor's attitudes, it's no surprise that Boromir doesn't listen to Gandalf.
Nevthónîel
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 12, 2003 03:55
He's just corrupted by the Ring. Weak men, you know.
Parmadur
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 15, 2003 06:16
He's just corrupted by the Ring. Weak men, you know.


Ah, but is Boromir really weak, per se? You have, after all, a man with great resolve, a deep loyalty to and passionate love for his country and his people... a man who is willing to do what it takes to ensure the wellbeing of his homeland. He takes on the Watcher in the Water without hesitation, and doesn't think twice before throwing himself into a horde of angry Uruk-hai to protect Merry and Pippin.

That, to me, is only a fraction of what makes Boromir one of the strongest characters/personalities in the entire trilogy. That's what would make anyone a strong person in the "real world" as well.

Do we judge him based on the single moment when he attempted to take the Ring from Frodo, or do we judge him based on everything else?

Keep that in mind. Boromir only truly went for the Ring once, and not only did he grow from the experience (however short a time he was allowed after realizing his error): he was very brave, very loyal (yes, I've already said that), and determined to help his country in any way that he could.

Is dedication weak? Is courage weak?

It isn't difficult to realize a mistake after it's been made, but it takes an enormous amount of strength to learn and grow from it. Boromir did, and he died an honorable man.


Also, if his temptation/attempted theft of the Ring is something anyone wishes to use against him, might I also remind everyone that Boromir was not the only one who was susceptible. Gandalf was tempted. Aragorn was tempted. Saruman was tempted. Hell, Saruman gave into the power of the Ring long before Boromir did, but is he considered "weak" or weak-minded? Not in the least: he's one of the strongest beings in the whole of Middle-earth!

Anyhoo, whatever bad rap Boromir has been getting is (IMHO) completely undeserved. We all like to think that we'd act differently if put in the same situation but really, the majority of us would react the same.

Don't judge the man based on his mistake; judge him by how he treats it (ie: as a learning experience, something to grow from).


(By the by, Figwit, brilliant last post. )

[Edited on 5/16/03 by Parmadur]
Faramirs_first_kiss
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 15, 2003 08:15
Well said Parmadur, but I don't think anyone here's trying to suggest that Boromir is weak in the sense of character, just to the supernatural influence of the Ring. He doesn't have defences against that sort of thing, unlike many of the others who are tempted. That he gets over it while Saruman, who ought really to have the best defences, is succumbed, shows his strength of character.
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 15, 2003 09:05
Of course he's good, I agree, but he's also baaaad

If anyone would know, you would ~_^
Figwit
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 15, 2003 08:04

(By the by, Figwit, brilliant last post. )


I could say the same about you Parmadur! Looks like we got the same idea about this Man of Gondor.
Andtalathiel
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: May 17, 2003 08:49
Ah, I like Boromir. I think he's a good person, though I admit he's easier to like in the film that he was in the books. I feel sorry for him, really... hard to explain why. I like the way he succumbs to the ring (in the movie, at least, its obviously not really a conscious decision) because it does make him seem more realistic. Adds a nice touch, kinda... if they all just breezed by not being affected by it at all, it would be a bit... unreal, in my opinion.
M_Brandybuck
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: June 10, 2003 02:45
I have made up my mind!! Borimir (It says in the book) is like unto Farimir, and vice versa. Borimir is a good guy! (I figured that out all by myself, no thanks to you all .)
kingurl
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: June 10, 2003 04:19
Boromir is a good guy, he really is, and he means well. The ring just takes hold of him a little quicker than it might of the others.
ElhaymGreenleaf
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: June 12, 2003 07:19
He was a good boy, but the Power of the One Ring corrupted him at the end...
Lady_Anie
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: February 25, 2004 11:42
I think he was really good deep down, but as people said, the Ring corrupted him and things got a tad bit difficult!
gothic_angel
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: February 25, 2004 03:34
He's...human.


Yip yip! That's the best to put it! =D
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: February 25, 2004 05:10
I agree with ElhaymGreenleaf. He was basicly a good person however the lure of the ring was too much for him in the end. And really, we can't blame him for that. It was too great a temptation. Even Gandalf was afraid he might succumb to it at one point.

Plus...he's my brother-in-law so don't insult him lol!!
samandfrodoforever
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: February 26, 2004 02:21
Because he is the most human and flawed character in the Fellowship, he is also the most relatable. He is not a bad person. He has a lot of forces pulling him in different directions- the power of the ring, his father's will, and his own conscience. Though he struggles in a way that does not flatter his character, his heart and courage win out. He dies honorably. If we were presented with Boromir in a different story, I am sure we would not see him as evil or corrupt. He is perhaps a little proud, but a genuinely nice guy. And he is damn sexy! xx-Amanda
fosca44
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: February 26, 2004 11:49
Well, I sort of changed my view on him after I watched the TT EE, because after I had seen FOTR at the theatre I kept thinking "Oh, he's unquestionable the bad guy. Why don't they just toss him out of the Fellowship?" and then sort of felt "Oh, he died. Well, then he's out of the way" (alright, I wasn't that crude but I didn't sympathise too much)

And then I got the Boromir's and Faramir's back story when I saw the EE, and then I sort of understood it - he feels he does it for the good of his city, and to please his father, and then I understood he wasn't really a bad guy...

If that made any sense
luvlijah
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: February 27, 2004 06:40
I think he is definately good but corrupted! He really cared about Faramir and he was just a good guy! Also, his death scene showed the real Boromir and showed his true colors. I felt sorry for the poor guy
tar_hazelton
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: March 04, 2004 07:42
It seems that it was Boromir's best qualities that made him more susceptible to the ring. He was brave, ambitious, and wanted the strength to defend his people. Pride also played a role, which isn't always a good quality (though it's not always bad either). The Ring takes the minds of the some of the best people. Granted power-hungry people are taken by it easily too, but I don't think this was the case with Boromir.

Consider that hobbits are some of the least susceptible people to the power of the ring. Hobbits have no ambition, they're lazy, care little of the outside world, and they're very simple people. This, of course is only a surface analysis. There is a lot more to hobbits than that, as the story tells us. But the point is, someone who is taken by the Ring isn't neccessarily bad and someone who is not taken by the Ring isn't neccessarily good.
glory2glorfindel
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: March 14, 2004 04:08
Because he is the most human and flawed character in the Fellowship, he is also the most relatable. He is not a bad person. He has a lot of forces pulling him in different directions- the power of the ring, his father's will, and his own conscience. Though he struggles in a way that does not flatter his character, his heart and courage win out. He dies honorably. If we were presented with Boromir in a different story, I am sure we would not see him as evil or corrupt. He is perhaps a little proud, but a genuinely nice guy. And he is damn sexy! xx-Amanda


**He has a lot of forces pulling him in *one* direction, methinks. His father requested that he bring the Ring to Gondor, the Ring wants to go to Gondor, and his own desire to save his people by the means he sees as most easily acheived would bring the Ring to Gondor.
**"He struggles in a way that does not flatter his character..." Do you mean his attempt to take the Ring from Frodo? and "his heart and courage win out." do you mean his later attempt to save merry and pippin? I think, in a strange way, the attempt to gain the Ring does flatter his character. At first thought, yes, he is portrayed directly as "not good" in this scene (I'm talking movie here), but when you bring all the factors (his devotion to his people, his desire to do good by what means seems best) it does flatter his character. He is simply trying to do good, trying to save his people, in the only way he can see at the moment. As to "his heart and courage win out." I see it as his heart and courage always being present, as I said, attempting to do good, but the object of his attempt (*frodo and the ring*) sorta... ran away. Once he realized that it couldn't help him, he thought that all his honor had left him for attacking one under his protection (which it sorta did..) and tried to regain it by fulfilling his oath to protect Merry and Pip. But, in truth, he had lost all hope. Remember the "And my city will come to ruin." line?


someone who is taken by the Ring isn't neccessarily bad and someone who is not taken by the Ring isn't neccesarily good.

Yes! good summary!
Lela333
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Post RE: POLL-Boromir
on: March 16, 2004 02:41
Boromir wasn't really bad. he just got corrupted by the ring. he really had a good heart. i was v. sorry that he died because he had a good heart. and that mean old orc just kept firing arrows. hate orcs. thier really usless.
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