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smeagolsverybestfriend
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Post RE: Tom Bombadil
on: April 30, 2004 11:31
Tom is DEFINITELY not an elf!Tom,well, is his own kind.One of the unexplainable things in Middle Earth.The book was cut down in size,maybe the part explaining him was cut out.So,we may not no a lot because some was cut 'cause the cost.So please,when any of you talk about Tom,tell them it's your OPINION not what the book says(unless it's from the book).I don't want anyone being misled.
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
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Post RE: Tom Bombadil
on: May 01, 2004 08:29
Well, I hate to disagree with a mod but it looks like I'll be doing that no matter what I say, so...


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"Ultimately only the victory of the West will allow Bombadil to continue, or even to survive. Nothing would be left for him in the world of Sauron."

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For a Maia, the world may not be a happy place under Sauron, or a Maia may choose to go back to the Blessed Realm, under certain conditions. But for nothing to be left for him in the world?
The only thing I can think of that fits that is Tom as a nature spirit.

I thought he would have ended up something like Melian: too depressed to really survive, or want to. Perhaps he (who said that) meant by "continue" to "continue happily as he is". Maybe he is connected to the forests and if they are destroyed, he will be destroyed, much as the way the Girdle of Melian fell when she left, but the other way around. If all he cared about were the forests and Goldberry, and those were destroyed, nothing would be left for him, right?


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"He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless--before the Dark Lord came from Outside." In the House of Tom Bombadil

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This seems to refers to Melkor, as the dark was never truly fearless once he set his evil in motion. This then might suggest that Bombadil was present in Ea before any of the Ainur arrived.

I think I said this on the "Discuss The Books" thread about Tom, but just because he knew the dark before Melkor doesn't mean that he was present in Arda before Melkor. Also, when the Valar and Maiar entered Arda, in the beginning even though Melkor was there they didn't fear him yet, before he started truly destroying Arda and before they saw how evil he was. I think, at least - I only read The Silmarillion twice, and I don't remember that part any well.


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"if he were given the Ring, he would soon forget it, or most likely throw it away. Such things have no hold on his mind."

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Tom is absolutely indifferent to the Ring, an attitude exactly opposite to that of all the other Maiar involved with the Ring in the book: Sauron, Saruman, Gandalf, and conceivably even the Balrog are all strongly drawn to the Ring - which could provide abilities that even a very powerful Ainu could lack. Even the Valar sometimes fell victim to Morgoth's plots.

The power that Tom must possess to overcome the Ring's temptations effortlessly is tremendous.

I think it was more of something in Tom's nature and just that he was different from the other Maiar. (I'm not sure what Tom is, but I think there's a pretty good chance he's a Maia.)

Of course Gandalf and Saruman are drawn to the Ring: they were sent to Middle-earth to help out with Sauron and the Ring. They are completely connected with Middle-earth and the substances in it, unlike Tom seems to be. It was Sauron's Ring; he created it to help him control Middle-earth; he's been much reduced since losing it; it's not like he's going to say "Ring? I don't care about it! I don't need it! If I wanted it, I'd just make another one!" (Semicolons rock!) And the Balrog... I don't see how s/he was drawn to the ring, but it was a fallen Maia and a servant of darkness. If the Balrog was drawn to the Ring, can you even count him/her/it? So I dont' know how good or reliable any of your examples are. And hat about Radagast and the Blue Wizards? They, possibly, could have taken the Ring or allied with Sauron if they were drawn to it.

Sorry if that was a little harsh. My excuse for today is that I have poison ivy.
merry1
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Post RE: Tom Bombadil
on: May 04, 2004 01:31
I'm a newbie so have mercy! I think tom is a classic character, though he may have been a little off-center and weird. i don't know exactly what he is, but from tolkiens description, he may be from the valar. He's kingly ,but human. Tom's seen everything and may be wiser than all, even elves! Say what you may of him he's still one of my favorites.Many thanks for reading! :rolling: Image
Mericc
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Post RE: Tom Bombadil
on: May 27, 2004 10:10
I am going to throw my idea in here and see what everyone thinks. Pardon if I do not use direct quotes from the books as I do not have any readily at hand.

My belief is that the people who claim that Tom is a nature spirit are almost right. Almost in that Tom is always portrayed as being a spirit OF nature, OF his forrest, land or what have you. But at the council in Rivendell it is said that Tom isn't bound so much to his little plot of land as that he has chosen to restrict himself to that land under bounds that he has set.
Tom to me is not a spirit of nature or of middle earth. Tom IS Middle Earth, or in the least an Avatar, or a physical manifestation of something spiritual. So just like the Valar could *put on* a form that can be comprehended by mortals so that they can interact with them, Middle Earth is embodied in Tom.
If we believe this to be true, then it is easy to see why the ring has no effect on Tom because it would be like the ring corrupting a rock, or a stream, or a hill. Tom is in essense a neutral and because he has no temptation to do good or do evil the ring cannot tempt him with dreams or desires like it has the tendency to do.
That is as best as I can put it right now as to what I think Tom is.
Figwit
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Post RE: Tom Bombadil
on: May 28, 2004 04:08
That's an interesting thought Mericc...
merry1
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Post RE: Tom Bombadil
on: May 28, 2004 05:10
I quite agree with figwit as well. Maybe the reason tolkien added him in the book is because he is so thought provoking, so complicated to understand. Tom is like a spark in the story.
olorinsjb
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Post RE: Tom Bombadil
on: May 30, 2004 06:13
I agree with merrick. Tom could very well be the chosen manifestation of middle-earth. I read a very interesting article by Eugine Hargrove, cocerning Bombadil being a Valar. Hargrove believes that tom is Aule and Goldberry is Yavanna In the end I think that Tolkien played a great joke on us all when it comes to Tom. Tom had alwas been a favorite of mine and I think that part of the reason for that is his mystery. Who is Tom Bombadil By Eugine Hargrove. www.cas.unt.edu/hargrove/bombadil.html
luvlijah
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Post RE: Tom Bombadil
on: June 13, 2004 11:01
I am going to throw my idea in here and see what everyone thinks. Pardon if I do not use direct quotes from the books as I do not have any readily at hand.

My belief is that the people who claim that Tom is a nature spirit are almost right. Almost in that Tom is always portrayed as being a spirit OF nature, OF his forrest, land or what have you. But at the council in Rivendell it is said that Tom isn't bound so much to his little plot of land as that he has chosen to restrict himself to that land under bounds that he has set.
Tom to me is not a spirit of nature or of middle earth. Tom IS Middle Earth, or in the least an Avatar, or a physical manifestation of something spiritual. So just like the Valar could *put on* a form that can be comprehended by mortals so that they can interact with them, Middle Earth is embodied in Tom.
If we believe this to be true, then it is easy to see why the ring has no effect on Tom because it would be like the ring corrupting a rock, or a stream, or a hill. Tom is in essense a neutral and because he has no temptation to do good or do evil the ring cannot tempt him with dreams or desires like it has the tendency to do.
That is as best as I can put it right now as to what I think Tom is.


That's the way I see it!
1lotr1
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Post RE: Tom Bombadil
on: June 13, 2004 12:51
I don't know why but Tom Bombadil is one of my favourite characters even though he is not a major one. :love:
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