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AgordanPrincess
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Post Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: June 30, 2004 02:05
OK my fellow LOTR lovers i would like some opinions! When Shelob Sticks Frodo with her stinger where to you imagine she hits him?

And based on that answer to you think he's still wearing his Mithril mail?

If he is do you think it could go through it?

Well I think that he gets his right below the edge of the Mithril! And yes he is still wearing it. I would like very much to hear what others think! Thanks!

ChildofLuthien
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: June 30, 2004 02:12
You know, that is a good point. I never thought about that. I mostly just think (at that part) how Shelob sticks Frodo with her spinnerets. However, Shelob is a very, very large creature, so maybe she could poke through the mithril?
Annûniel
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: June 30, 2004 02:45
I think in the book I remember Shelob's stinger actually going into his neck somehow... and it wasn't so much as a "stab" as it was a "slice." Does that make sense?

I think it'd be harder to show that on screen, so they chose to have it slam straight through his mithril shirt. Which he was still wearing. You can see it a bit at the beginning of the movie, and then the orcs get a hold of it so it had to be there.
arvandor
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 01, 2004 01:24
hi,

I think the poison came through mithril in maybe his wound of the weathertop. To be honoust I never thought of that before.
Annûniel
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 01, 2004 06:04
hi,

I think the poison came through mithril in maybe his wound of the weathertop. To be honoust I never thought of that before.


Frodo didn't recieve the mithril shirt until Rivendell, so he wasn't wearing it on weathertop. Interesting point though, would that have gone through?
AgordanPrincess
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 01, 2004 06:52
Thats why i've been asking! See Mithril is supposed to be so hard nothing can penatrate it! So i have no idea which is why i said he got hit where the Mithril ended
Since69
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 01, 2004 09:17
When we first see Frodo in the gaurd tower at Cirith Ungol, he is shirtless, bound and has spider web on his head. Later, when Sam comes to rescue him, we get a clearer picture of his chest. Upper right quadrent is the scar from the wound at Weathertop, upper left quadrent we see a new wound, presumably from Shelob. In the book, She stings him in the back of the neck. PJ obviously erred in having the stinger penetrate the mithril mailshirt--the cave troll couldn't do it in FOTR and he looks stronger than Shelob. Also, when Sam rescues Frodo in the tower, the spider web has magically disappeared from Frodo's head, another boo-boo (unless we see something else in the upcoming EE).
PrincessLothwen
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 01, 2004 04:53
It's very interesting that this is posted only days after I asked my friend the same question. Our consensus was that Shelob could have penetrated the mithril. The cave troll bent it in the book and Frodo was cut from it. It is possible then, that Shelob also bent the mithril and her venom could have entered a wound.
Annûniel
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 01, 2004 05:20
I only remember Frodo being bruised badly and sore from the Cave Troll's wound. Besides, that was the book. In the movies, he got up and said "I'm fine; I'm not hurt." And he didn't appear to be sore in any way.

But Shelob stung Frodo in the neck in the books, not in the stomach like he was in the movie. So unlike the Cave Troll, Shelob didn't have to worry about penetrating the mithril shirt.
Orc_Gallore2005
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 03, 2004 02:56
I think that when Frodo got stabbed... i think he got stabbed through the Mithril because when he was in the tower, u could see 2 scars. One from when he was stabbed in the first movie when he put the ring on and the dead person stabbed him on the left, In the third movie, you could see after he got stabbed, he went to the tower. The orcs were looking at the Mithril and then the orcs faught because one looked at it. Isn't it good that I remember that Frodo got stabbed by the dead person when he put the ring on when Aragorn and all of them were fighting the Night Riders and that he got stabbed in the left because i watched it .

"You cannot hide! I see you! There is no life in the void... only death..."
Balrogs_Heir
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 03, 2004 08:46
Ya but when the orcs are looking at the mythril did you see any holes in it. No. i belive he was either hit in the neck or legs. if the cave troll didn't damage it i can't see a lowly spider breakin through it
ElvenShieldmaiden
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 03, 2004 10:19
I think that the possibility of Shelob's stinger penetrating or damaging the mithril coat in anyway is entirely out of the question. As has been explained, mithril is a very tough substance. That maille was extraordinarily fine and intricate. It is undamaged when the Orc shook it around, and Shelob's stinger was too large to have made it through one of the links.

Therefore, I think Frodo was stuck either in the neck or in the groin. At least an area on his torso that the mithril shirt doesn't cover. It has to be his torso, because the venom travelled so rapidly to his major organs and made him blank out so quickly. It couldn't have been his legs, and it couldn't have been his arms, and it most certainly could not have been his face.

Ciao!
Annûniel
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 04, 2004 02:37
Oh, stabbed in the groin! Poor Frodo!!

(Sorry couldn't resist)
ElvenShieldmaiden
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 04, 2004 04:39
I could crack all sorts of jokes about "the REAL reason as to why Frodo never married," but I won't!

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Orc_Gallore2005
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 04, 2004 10:09
You will never know where Frodo will get stabbed until he gets stabbed.


"You cannot hide! I see you! There is no life in the void... only death..."
hobbithole_dweller
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 05, 2004 03:38
I think Frodo would have screamed out in much more gut wrenching pain if he was stabbed in the groin!! Lol, anyway...

I think he was stabbed in the neck, it makes most sense since the mithril would have stopped Shelob's stinger and the neck is probably the location where the poison would be most effective.
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 05, 2004 03:55
I'm not very familiar with that sequence in RotK, but I think the stinger went under the mithril - based on what Since said, through the armhole or neckhole and into the upper left quadrant of his chest. It seems unlikely but definitely possible; in fencing, for example, if the foil goes under the part of the helmet covering the neck and hits the part of the vest covering the neck, the shot (not sure about fencing terminology) counts.
Therefore, I think Frodo was stuck...in the groin.
:sob: Poor Frodo...
Nyérëven
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 05, 2004 06:44
Hmm.. that is an interesting question. The only thing I can come up with would be that he was stabbed through the armhole of the mithril shirt..at least based upon where it looks like she stings him in the movies. Wierd though, and it sure would be less complicated if PJ had just stuck with the books!
Annûniel
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 05, 2004 06:56
Well I have a hard time believing he was stabbed in the neck from the angle we see Shelob stinging him. It really looks like the stinger slams straight into his stomach. We have a clear view of his neck, and just the way he reacted to the stinger it looks like he was punched in the stomach.

I dont know maybe I should watch it again.
vaya
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 03:16
Well I have a hard time believing he was stabbed in the neck from the angle we see Shelob stinging him. It really looks like the stinger slams straight into his stomach. We have a clear view of his neck, and just the way he reacted to the stinger it looks like he was punched in the stomach.

I dont know maybe I should watch it again.


In the movie yes, but in the book he was taken from behind in the neck, which is why the mithril didn't matter...see Tolkein was really into backwards continuity

REally I was going to chalk it up to plot holyness in the movie.
Scatha
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 05:20
If the point of her stinger is "fine" enough, then she could stick Frodo without even breaking a ring of mail.
GreenEyedElf
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 05:35
Wow, I never thought of that before, intersesting question. It would have been so much easier if PJ had just stuck to the books on this scene because in the movie he clearly isn't stabbed in the back of the neck. I agree with you Scatha, the stinger was probably so narrow that it slipped right through the mithril rings. It seems like one of the most logical explainations.
AgordanPrincess
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 06:37
No look at the scene again you'll see the stinger isnt that thin look at when its trying to get Sam and you'l see that its pretty thick.
Annûniel
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 07:21
Hey I've read the books I know all about the back of the neck thing.

And yes, the stinger is WAY too big to stick to fit through Frodo's mithril rings.

I think PJ might have made another boo-boo.
Scatha
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 07:37
Well, considering the size of Shelob, and what she is (not just anormal spider that got big), I imagine she could have just tore through it.
Annûniel
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 08:05
I doubt that... besides, when Shagrat picked up the shirt, it was def *not* torn...
vaya
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 09:51
yeah, it's a big continuity error I am afraid. But really, it's a minor one in the grand scheme of the Lord of the Rings.
AgordanPrincess
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 11:28
Vaya and Luthien03 i totally agree with you both! It might be a real big boo boo, but its fun to talk about!
vaya
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 11:51
Vaya and Luthien03 i totally agree with you both! It might be a real big boo boo, but its fun to talk about!


Oh of course

My own personal fanwank....Shelob overrolled on the attack and then rolled a 66 on the crit....

Rolemaster joke.
legolasrules1
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 05:01
Yeah, I think it was a mistake. It looks like he got stabbed in the stomach, but the mithril should have stopped the stinger.

I think Frodo would have screamed out in much more gut wrenching pain if he was stabbed in the groin!!


o_O Nice thought...LOL

[Edited on 9/7/2004 by legolasrules1]
AgordanPrincess
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 08, 2004 05:57
Well i wonder if anyone will say anything about it on the extended version of ROTK?!?!
vaya
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 10, 2004 04:43
Well i wonder if anyone will say anything about it on the extended version of ROTK?!?!


Why? Its easier to ignore it

Besides, it's not like its the only gaff, such as Pippin's amazing tied, untied and then tied hands, and Aragorn's third hand.
_Lady_Of_The_Wood_
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 10, 2004 05:30
I had never really thought of how shelob managed to stab Frodo. I try not to be too technical with the movies. They fall apart at the seams if you question them.
Annûniel
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 11, 2004 11:41
Besides, it's not like its the only gaff, such as Pippin's amazing tied, untied and then tied hands, and Aragorn's third hand.


Yay I wasn't the only one to notice Pip! But what's this about Aragorn's third hand?
_Lady_Of_The_Wood_
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Post RE: Frodo.... Mithril.... Shelob
on: July 12, 2004 04:23
Aragorn's third hand is in the scene when he is looking for athelas, and he finds it. He has a torch in his left hand. He then takes hold of the plant in his right hand, and then, he takes out his knife with his left hand (the one that's supposed to be holding the torch), and cuts the plant, and the torch is still up in the air, casting a pool of light on the plant, so we have assumed that Aragorn has a third hand. He He.

[Edited on 12/9/2004 by _Lady_Of_The_Wood_]
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