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Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 11, 2006 06:02
I'm not sure how to interpret Renk's statement "in general, it is nicer to end a word with a closed ore..." How hard and fast of a rule is that?


In the attested text using the Mannish Sindarin tehta mode, the King's Letter, every instance of r at the end of a word is written with óre, so I'd say that it's a pretty hard and fast rule. In this mode, rómen is not written at the end of a word.


amdir
mannish sindarin tehta mode
formal book hand (and verse hand, if you're bored...)


amdir
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 11, 2006 06:11
1. Frodo wouldn't have got far without Sam.
2. English orthorgraphic spelling and phonemic spelling.
3. Formal book hand.


You didn't specify whether you wanted the orthgraphic full-writing or tehta mode, so I did both. I suspect that the full-writing mode is more appropriate for hobbits from the Shire. The English half of the King's Letter was written in the full-writing mode, and both Sam and Elanor were able to read it. Also, since literacy was presumably new to the Shire, I would expect a later alphabetic mode would be in use rather than an older mode that made use of tehtar,

Frodo wouldn't have got far without Sam.


BTW, do you know Laura Cooper? She taught tengwar writing in the ELF during Jul 28~30.


No, I don't know her.
luinel
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 12, 2006 07:08
I'm not sure how to interpret Renk's statement "in general, it is nicer to end a word with a closed ore..." How hard and fast of a rule is that?


In the attested text using the Mannish Sindarin tehta mode, the King's Letter, every instance of r at the end of a word is written with óre, so I'd say that it's a pretty hard and fast rule. In this mode, rómen is not written at the end of a word.


amdir
mannish sindarin tehta mode
formal book hand (and verse hand, if you're bored...)


ok - glad I checked with you.
Can you explain the differences in how the tehta for "a" appears (as three radiating lines or as three dots)? Is it the mode or the script?

Thank you for your time - I admire your dedication and artistry.



[Edited on 12/8/2006 by luinel]
Josephine_jfh
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 12, 2006 11:29
You didn't specify whether you wanted the orthgraphic full-writing or tehta mode, so I did both. I suspect that the full-writing mode is more appropriate for hobbits from the Shire. The English half of the King's Letter was written in the full-writing mode, and both Sam and Elanor were able to read it. Also, since literacy was presumably new to the Shire, I would expect a later alphabetic mode would be in use rather than an older mode that made use of tehtar,

Frodo wouldn't have got far without Sam.


Great suggestion! I appreciate very much!
Spookyphoo
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 14, 2006 06:56
wow wow wow,the work you guys are able to do and the generosity with which you do it is amazing...I have been grueling to get a written version of my husbands name. Im not sure which mode would be appropriate and wether i would be translating "Patrick" or "Nostarion"? Ive writen out something from a learn to write you name in 10 minutes using Quenya style writing but im just not sure,sniff. If someone has some extra time and generosity to spare it would be most appreciated. * Patrick James
*formal book?

I really really appreciated and can in return translate from english to german.hehe,but really.
Sokimi
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 14, 2006 10:13
1. The World Has Changed...I Feel It In The Water...I Feel It In The Earth...I Smell It In The Air.
2. Phonemic Mode
3. Formal Book Hand and Doors of Durin

Can you please include the ..., ... in the translation please? I want to make a tattoo of that sentence. It came up as this using tengwar translator (I prefer tengwar formal font) :

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/8797/elvishtattoo3zv4.jpg

Is this right?

[Edited on 14/8/2006 by Sokimi]
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 14, 2006 05:45

Can you explain the differences in how the tehta for "a" appears (as three radiating lines or as three dots)? Is it the mode or the script?


It is the script. In the style of calligraphy used on the One Ring, strokes were used iinstead of dots. This applied to the i tehta as well.
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 14, 2006 05:55
* Patrick James
*formal book?


I'm not sure where you got Nostarion. In Quenya, nostari means 'parents', so is not a very apt translation of Patrick, which means 'patrician'. The Elvish Names Database here at CoE gives Arqueno, while Helge Fauskanger suggests Callo as a translation of Patrick. But here is the transcription of 'Patrick James' in the English Orthographic Tehta Mode:

Patrick James
Spookyphoo
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 14, 2006 05:57
ahhh yes also,in exchange for your wonderful trancription services i would more than merrily whip up a grand astrology natal chart with interpretation. Just a thought since i feel like a bumm adding to your workload...
Spookyphoo
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 14, 2006 06:01
wow it is beautiful...Thank you thank you,and boy are you fast http://www.arwen-undomiel.com/elvish/boynames.html
is where i got my info on translation of the name im glad you set me right. ty again...
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 14, 2006 06:12
1. The World Has Changed...I Feel It In The Water...I Feel It In The Earth...I Smell It In The Air.
2. Phonemic Mode
3. Formal Book Hand and Doors of Durin

Can you please include the ..., ... in the translation please?


Let's start with the ellipsis (...) first. There are three reasons not to use it:
1. We don't know how the ellipsis is written in tengwar: Tolkien's examples don't include it.
2. It's used wrong in the sentence above: an ellipsis doesn't belong there. The ellipsis indicates that something is omitted.
3. The sentence is based on a line written by Tolkien himself in The Return of the King, and I would not be so presumptuous as to change his impeccable punctuation. The original quote was by Treebeard to Celeborn and Galadriel, and reads, "For the world is changing: I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air." When presenting a list, the comma, not an ellipsis, should be used.

The result you got from the tengwar transcriber is pretty close, but not exactly right. Also, the mode you posted was an orthographic, not phonemic, mode. Here is a corrected version of that transcription in the two script styles you requested:

The world has changed...
Sokimi
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 15, 2006 08:42
Thx a lot

I get what you mean with the elipsis. Thanks a lot for the explanation, I really appreciate it. Also a big thanks for the translation, I love it.
elvira
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 16, 2006 03:05

could you write the "elf" and "elvira"


Elf, Elvira


thank you so much your amazing and fast.
al the work i see u done here it is great.

think im going to be a pain in the ass and ask one more thing.
sorry for that i think i wasnt clear enough.
you wrote that there are 2 possibilities for "elf"
and you did one in this mode i like the most.
could you also do the other way of "elf" for me?

oh and i mean not all the 6 types but the one on the bottem.
the last one.

will be the last thing i ask,
thank you already!

[Edited on 16/8/2006 by elvira]
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 17, 2006 05:35
1. The beginning is always today
2. Orthographic Tehta Mode
3. Calligraphic rendering


The beginning is always today
T_Tomten
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 19, 2006 04:01
1) Liberate tu-temet ex inferis (latin phrase)
in Tengwar Annatar Italic and also in Tengwar Annatar Bold Italic....



Gonna tatto my back so I need it correct!
Faramyr
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 22, 2006 04:22
Hello, was hoping to have a couple of phrases transcribed if possible.

1. "East London"
2. Whichever mode you feel would be most appropriate.
3. Could i see the phrases in both Formal book hand and One ring style where possible please?

I was also hoping to have a Sindarin name transcribed,
"Mansuieru" or "Mambechir", indeed whichever you would deem most accurate.

Again, any mode that you feel is appropriate and i am particularly interested in seeing it in the book hand, one ring and pointed styles.


If you would be able to help with even one of the transcriptions above, it would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

Mike


[Edited on 22/8/2006 by Faramyr]
stelllllar
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 23, 2006 09:46
1. Truth, Beauty, Freedom and Love (the phrase, not the words )
2. Phonemic Mode
3. Formal Book Hand

Greatly appreciated, thank you.
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 25, 2006 07:41

you wrote that there are 2 possibilities for "elf"
and you did one in this mode i like the most.
could you also do the other way of "elf" for me?

oh and i mean not all the 6 types but the one on the bottem.
the last one.


Here is 'Elf' written in Verse Hand in two different modes:

Elf
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 25, 2006 07:45
1) Liberate tu-temet ex inferis (latin phrase)
in Tengwar Annatar Italic and also in Tengwar Annatar Bold Italic....


I explained in the other thread why I needed to alter it slightly in order for it to grammatically correct.

Líberá té tútemet ex inferís

[Edited on 25/8/2006 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 25, 2006 07:58
1. "East London"
2. Whichever mode you feel would be most appropriate.
3. Could i see the phrases in both Formal book hand and One ring style where possible please?


I did it in three different modes: the orthographic tehta mode, the orthographic full writing mode, and the phonemic mode. Take your pick!

East London

I was also hoping to have a Sindarin name transcribed,
"Mansuieru" or "Mambechir", indeed whichever you would deem most accurate.


Mansuieru. Even though S. be is cognate with Q. ve, the S. version means 'according to'. The S. word for 'like' or 'as' is sui. Also, the Hebrew original means, 'Who is like God?' Hîr means 'Lord', not 'God'.

Mansuieru
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 25, 2006 08:01
1. Truth, Beauty, Freedom and Love (the phrase, not the words )
2. Phonemic Mode
3. Formal Book Hand


Truth, Beauty, Freedom and Love
T_Tomten
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 25, 2006 09:32
:hug: Thanks!!!!! you made my day! you are really good =) thank you again! yeeeehaaaa! :disco:
Faramyr
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 25, 2006 12:19
That's fantastic, thanks ever so much!

The 'East London' in particular is really cool and im considering getting it tattooed.
Nice way of expressing the pride of where im from and the football club i love without getting the typical thug tattoo.

Thanks for the time and effort you put in to that, much appreciated!!
elvira
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 26, 2006 07:35
thank you so much for all
T_Tomten
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 27, 2006 12:41
I have some questions about libera te tutemet ex inferis in tengwar annatar. in the end of the sentence there's 4 dots like - :: but diagonally... what's that? is it a regulary sentence dot or what?

And how do you pronounce the sentence?

Hehe I'm sorry to interrupt you further
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 27, 2006 05:30
I have some questions about libera te tutemet ex inferis in tengwar annatar. in the end of the sentence there's 4 dots like - :: but diagonally... what's that? is it a regulary sentence dot or what?


Tolkien wrote the full stop (period) a few different ways; that's one of them.

And how do you pronounce the sentence?


'li:-be-ra: te: 'tu:-te-met eks 'in-fe-ri:s.

A phonetic spelling for speakers of English might read:
LEE-beh-rah té TOO-teh-met eks EEN-feh-rees.
(The capitalised syllables are the stressed syllables; the r's are trilled; the é is pronounced as in French, or like the Italian closed e.)
T_Tomten
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 28, 2006 10:33
So it's a dot? Tengwar Annatar (: = Latin (.) if it is a dot I don't want to tatto it. I could just take it away...?

And I know how to pronounce in latin but not in Tengwar. Sorry I was not clearly enough

Thank you again
T_Tomten
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 28, 2006 10:43
So it's a dot? Tengwar Annatar ( :: ) = Latin ( . ) if it is a dot I don't want to tatto it. I could just take it away...?

And I know how to pronounce in latin but not in Tengwar. Sorry I was not clearly enough

Thank you again
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 31, 2006 05:15
So it's a dot? Tengwar Annatar ( :: ) = Latin ( . ) if it is a dot I don't want to tatto it. I could just take it away...?


In real-world languages that make use of punctuation, a full sentence needs a punctuation mark to complete it. The full stop or period, which you're calling a dot, is the most common. I can't imagine that it would be optional in Tolkien's linguistic world. Could you leave off the punctuation mark? Sure. Would it be correct to do so? No.

And I know how to pronounce in latin but not in Tengwar. Sorry I was not clearly enough


It's still in Latin; only the writing system is changed. Pronounce it just as if it were written in the Latin alphabet.
Josephine_jfh
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: September 06, 2006 06:57
Another humble request: can you show me the chart of the English full writing mode you use? Is it same as the English mode of Beleriand?
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: September 11, 2006 02:53
Another humble request: can you show me the chart of the English full writing mode you use?


I assume you mean the orthographic full-writing mode. It is the same one used in the English half of the King's Letter (Sauron Defeated, pp. 130-131). The chart below does not contain the commonly used tehtar found in this mode. These are the nasal bar, the doubling tehta, the 's' hooks and the following 'w' tehta, though this last tehta is seen on the chart in the diphthongs au,aw, eu,ew and ou,ow. The chart also does not show the punctuation marks.

English Orthographic Full-Writing Mode chart

Is it same as the English mode of Beleriand?


There is no such thing. The only mode that Tolkien referred to as 'the mode of Beleriand' is that Sindarin full-writing mode devised by the Sindarin-speaking Noldor in northern Middle-earth. Remember, English wasn't spoken in Beleriand, therefore there can't be a Beleriandic English mode! The English portion of the King's Letter represented Westron, and the mode used was most likely based on a Westron mode. This mode was probably influenced somewhat by the mode of Beleriand, but it is obviously a different mode that accomodated very non-Sindarin phonemes. This English mode is considerably easier to read than the tehta mode and the phonemic modes.
Josephine_jfh
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: September 12, 2006 05:32
Thanks a lot! Wow! More complicated than I thought. I think I need the whole life time to figure all the rules out.
emmyarwen
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: October 02, 2006 09:25
Wow this is an amazing thread. I love elvish writing and would like to copy a few phrases on the walls of my kitchen which i am trying to do in the style of rivendell.

Please, could you do the followning Quenyan phrase in the book hand:

Á tulë, á matë ar á sucë merendo!


I hope someone can do this.
also how would one say there is always hope? in Quenyan or Sindarin?

If you would not mind to show me what my name Emmy Arwen would look like too the last two I would love to put into my siggy banner or whatever one day.

[Edited on 2/10/2006 by emmyarwen]
lil_eza
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: October 05, 2006 04:42
Hey there.

Estel.
Mode of Beleriand or Mannish SIndarin
Style: Doors of Durin and Verse Hand

(and if possible in calligraphic rendering?)

Thanks !

[Edited on 6/10/2006 by lil_eza]

[Edited on 9/10/2006 by lil_eza]
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: October 06, 2006 06:33
Á tulë, á matë ar á sucë merendo!


Á túlë...

If you would not mind to show me what my name Emmy Arwen would look like too


'Emmy' is an English name while 'Arwen' is Sindarin. We can't use a Sindarin mode to write English, but the King's Letter gives us an English mode with some Sindarin names written in it. So, according to that mode, here is
'Emmy Arwen'.
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