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Josephine_jfh
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 10, 2006 10:23
Help... :cry:

I tried to write this in Tengwar, but still not sure I wrote right or wrong. Could you show this for me?

1. "Ú i vethed nâ i onnad,
Si boe ú-dhanna.
Ae ú-esteli, esteliach nad.
Estelio han, estelio veleth."

2. Quinya or Sindarin mode
3. Formal book hand

Thanks a lot!
ProjectAutumn
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 12, 2006 10:49
Uialdil, I've looked at your translations and tengwar renditions, and they are amazing and beautiful. Thank you so much for offering your help, even if I am too late to jump on its bandwagon. Finding assistance with Elfish translations is extremely difficult, and I'm happy for all those you helped already. The frustration is acute without people like you.

I have been trying to find the first two lines of the Riddle of Strider -- "All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost" -- translated into Tengwar for the better part of a year. I wanted to ask you to do this as a last resort, because I feel you must already have so much on your plate, and because I thought if I looked hard enough I could solve the problem myself. Long story short, here I am. I feel like this is one of my last hopes at ever attaining an Elfish translation.

Here's my dilemma: I can't even decide which Sindarin translation of the poem (of the ones I've found on the internet) is the one I like, because I do not know how accurate they are. Only someone with a knowledge of the language could help me in this respect, and I assume that you've decided on your favorite translation (or translated it yourself). I feel compelled to choose one that rhymes, but I don't know how much creative license is being taken with the words to make them rhyme. What would you suggest?

Now, I feel awful asking you to translate AND transcribe those lines into tengwar, so please only do this if you are under no other pressure whatsoever. The Sindarin Formal Book Hand (I think you said the Mode the Gondorians used?) is my favorite style. I've read this post over and over, and I think I'm getting all of the information confused now. I'm so sorry. I just want those lines translated so badly, and I don't even know where to start. I've looked at tengwar and gotten overwhelmed. And now I'm just rambling.

If you want this thread to disappear, you can email me at [email protected]. Thank you so much for reading this, though.

Thanks thanks thanks again.

[Edited on 12/2/2006 by ProjectAutumn]
Elmcarra
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 13, 2006 02:21
I would like to check my work on these words which I used a software program to "draw" but due to the different font choices, I almost confused myself! SO, I would like to see how you would write these two words! I have to thank you again for helping me learn and know that you are a treasure for being such a great student and teacher of this art!


1. Compassion
1. Healer
2. English- Orthographic Tehta Mode and Orthographic Full Writing Mode
3. Formal Book Hand


Sincerely,
elm
Dolen_i_vad_a_nin
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 16, 2006 07:15
I cannot believe the amount of work you must have put into this to learn Tengwar. You are amazing! I Hope I got the information right for you...

1. Steve
2. Kelli

I would like them just left as English
Tengwar Annatar font in italic, Sindarin Classic mode

Are these even right for what im asking? I saw an example of this font earlier in another post, and I love it. If it's not right, I really love just a clean, simple look to the writing, and if you think of anything I might like, go ahead and do it any way you see best.

Thank you so much again!
Im so curious to see the results! :wave:
Rohan_Naur
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 17, 2006 07:39
1.) All woods there be must end at last
2.) English Orthographic Tehta Mode and Full-writing mode
3.) One Ring Inscription Style and formal book hand style

I think i've got it right on paper here but it's going to be permanent so i need to be sure. Thanks!
lucilalucila
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 17, 2006 08:58


[Edited on 20/2/2006 by lucilalucila]
lucilalucila
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 18, 2006 03:28




[Edited on 20/2/2006 by lucilalucila]
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 18, 2006 12:02
1. "Ú i vethed nâ i onnad,
Si boe ú-dhanna.
Ae ú-esteli, esteliach nad.
Estelio han, estelio veleth."

2. Quinya or Sindarin mode
3. Formal book hand


Since it is in Neo-Sindarin, it cannot be written in a Quenya mode. You didn't specify which Sindarin mode, but since the lyrics are from a song about Arwen, I would think that the mode of Beleriand would be most appropriate, that being the mode used in Rivendell.

There are two examples of the mode of Beleriand written by Tolkien, and interestingly enough, though the calligraphy styles are different, they both exhibit tall curved ascenders. Maybe this was something that was a popular feature among the Noldor who lived in Beleriand? Anyway, here is the text you requested in the style of formal book hand that Tolkien used for his A Elbereth calligraphy piece:

Evenstar lyrics I

If you prefer something more conventional, less stylised:

Evenstar lyrics II
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 18, 2006 12:14
Here's my dilemma: I can't even decide which Sindarin translation of the poem (of the ones I've found on the internet) is the one I like, because I do not know how accurate they are. Only someone with a knowledge of the language could help me in this respect, and I assume that you've decided on your favorite translation (or translated it yourself). I feel compelled to choose one that rhymes, but I don't know how much creative license is being taken with the words to make them rhyme. What would you suggest?


My honest suggestion? Leave it in English. We really don't have enough Sindarin vocabulary to get an accurate translation. Also, all 'translations' I've seen are not poetry: they lack metre, which is what defines poetry. So what you end up with is iffy prose that lacks the charm of the original poem. Not to mention, why would you want it in Sindarin anyway? Bilbo wrote the poem in Westron, and Westron is represented in the books by modern English. So my suggestion is to transcribe the English words into an English tengwar mode. More appropriate and infinitely easier.
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 18, 2006 12:18
1. Compassion
1. Healer
2. English- Orthographic Tehta Mode and Orthographic Full Writing Mode
3. Formal Book Hand


Compassion, Healer
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 18, 2006 12:26

1. Steve
2. Kelli

I would like them just left as English
Tengwar Annatar font in italic, Sindarin Classic mode


Only Sindarin is written in a Sindarin mode. For English, we use English modes. Normally, I don't use fonts in this thread; I write the words by hand. However, the Tengwar Annatar Italic font does give a very good representation of the One Ring Inscription style. Here are Steve and Kelli written in the English orthographic tehta mode:

Steve, Kelli
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 18, 2006 12:30
1.) All woods there be must end at last
2.) English Orthographic Tehta Mode and Full-writing mode
3.) One Ring Inscription Style and formal book hand style


All woods there be must end at last.
Rohan_Naur
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 18, 2006 09:45
1. fail

Just in the style of the ring

you're a LIFE saver. and i heart you.

hannon le.
lucilalucila
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 19, 2006 02:33
1.
aduial, mini thâd megil e-hiril calad caladiel
1.
minuial, min i thâd megil e-hiril calad caladiel

2.tehta mode

3.what ever you prefer ( but please write what you have chosen)
Elmcarra
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 19, 2006 03:38
Uialdil_i_degilbor!

Once again, beautiful work! You helped me to confirm compassion and see more options than my handy program gives for "healer". I sincerely appreciate you spending your personal time helping me...I know it can be a chore keeping up with these requests and from people all over whom youve never met! Thank you for keeping this art alive! You are a living legend in my book!
elm
Dolen_i_vad_a_nin
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 19, 2006 07:02
Thank you so, so much! My name, Kelli, is so beautiful in the font you choose. My boyfriend loves his name as well. When I tried to explain to him how beautiful this kind of writing can be, he didn't understand it. When he saw his name, he finally understood it. Thank you so much for using your knowledge and talents to help us on this thread!!!:love:
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 20, 2006 01:55
1. fail

Just in the style of the ring


fail
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 20, 2006 02:26
1.
aduial, mini thâd megil e-hiril calad caladiel
1.
minuial, min i thâd megil e-hiril calad caladiel

2.tehta mode

3.what ever you prefer ( but please write what you have chosen)


One Ring Inscription Style:
aduial ... minuial
Rohan_Naur
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 20, 2006 08:21
1. fail

Just in the style of the ring


fail


you're OFFICIALLY my hero.

thank you SO much!!!!
lucilalucila
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 21, 2006 06:33
1.
aduial, mini thâd megil e-hiril calad caladiel
1.
minuial, min i thâd megil e-hiril calad caladiel

2.tehta mode

3.what ever you prefer ( but please write what you have chosen)


One Ring Inscription Style:
aduial ... minuial
thanks alot for helping me
Josephine_jfh
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 23, 2006 04:59
Since it is in Neo-Sindarin, it cannot be written in a Quenya mode. You didn't specify which Sindarin mode, but since the lyrics are from a song about Arwen, I would think that the mode of Beleriand would be most appropriate, that being the mode used in Rivendell.

There are two examples of the mode of Beleriand written by Tolkien, and interestingly enough, though the calligraphy styles are different, they both exhibit tall curved ascenders. Maybe this was something that was a popular feature among the Noldor who lived in Beleriand? Anyway, here is the text you requested in the style of formal book hand that Tolkien used for his A Elbereth calligraphy piece:

Evenstar lyrics I

If you prefer something more conventional, less stylised:

Evenstar lyrics II


:disco: Thank you! I appreciate so much!
...I knew it! I wrote in the "Quenya" mode I thought, and sent to my friends... :banghead:
Josephine_jfh
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 24, 2006 04:28
Sorry! One more "double check":

1. Garo Idhrinn Eden Veren! (Have a Joyous New Year)
2. Sindarin tehtar mode & Quenya mode (just want to compare the differences between them...may I?)
3. formal book hand.

Thanks again!

BTW, ask a stupid question: can I write the Roman spelling of Chinese (e.g. my last name "Huang") in English orthographic/phonemic spelling?

[Edited on 24/2/2006 by Josephine_jfh]
Cemolo
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 24, 2006 11:40
I hope this is not too much to ask but I would love someone to transcribe those names into Tengwar

1. Lilia
Bernd
Gianni
Nico
2. English, and phonemic and orthographic tehta mode
3. Formal hand, one ring. and if possible calligraphic rendering.

I know I am asking for a lot ... I want those names transcribed because I will tattoo them on my inner foot, and thats also the reason why am asking for so many different styles. If someone would take the time and transcribe those names, I would greatly greatly appreciate it!!!

thanks already
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: March 05, 2006 04:55
1. Garo Idhrinn Eden Veren! (Have a Joyous New Year)
2. Sindarin tehtar mode & Quenya mode (just want to compare the differences between them...may I?)
3. formal book hand.


Once again, you cannot write Sindarin in the Quenya mode. I'll try to explain why. Here is a chart showing the consonants, semivowels and carriers used in the Quenya mode:

Image

(The tengwa hwesta sindarinwa is shown in light grey because it is not used in Quenya.)

Now take the word garo: how would you propose to write it in the Quenya mode? In Quenya, g only exists in the combinations ng and ngw, so there is no way to write an initial g in the Quenya mode. Similarly, dh (=ð) doesn't exist in Quenya, so there is no tengwa to represent that sound in the Quenya mode. In Quenya, d only occurs in the combinations nd, ld and rd, so eden cannot be written in the Quenya mode because there's no way to write the d. You must use a mode that properly represents the sounds of Sindarin, and the Quenya mode cannot do so. Below is how the sentence you requested can be written in four Sindarin modes:

Garo idhrinn eden veren.

can I write the Roman spelling of Chinese (e.g. my last name "Huang") in English


I suppose you could, but a Chinese mode would be a more logical choice. There is a discussion involving a Mandarin mode currently going on at the Elfling Yahoo group. Here's a suggestion:

Huang
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: March 05, 2006 05:06

1. Lilia
Bernd
Gianni
Nico
2. English, and phonemic and orthographic tehta mode
3. Formal hand, one ring


For the phonemic mode, I am making the assumption that 'Bernd' is pronounced in the German manner, i. e. with the e pronounced as in E. 'bed' and with the final d pronounced like t. I am also assuming that 'Gianni' is pronounced like Italian. If not, the phonemic transcriptions would be different from what I give. Though g is normally transcribed in the orthographic English mode with the tengwa called ungwe regardless of whether it is hard or soft, I used anga for the soft g as in the Italian mode:

Lilia, Bernd, Gianni, Nico
Josephine_jfh
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: March 07, 2006 04:09
Now take the word garo: how would you propose to write it in the Quenya mode? In Quenya, g only exists in the combinations ng and ngw, so there is no way to write an initial g in the Quenya mode. Similarly, dh (=ð) doesn't exist in Quenya, so there is no tengwa to represent that sound in the Quenya mode. In Quenya, d only occurs in the combinations nd, ld and rd, so eden cannot be written in the Quenya mode because there's no way to write the d. You must use a mode that properly represents the sounds of Sindarin, and the Quenya mode cannot do so. Below is how the sentence you requested can be written in four Sindarin modes:

Garo idhrinn eden veren.


Thanks a lot! No wonder I could not find correct symbol to write this when I only knew Quenya mode!

I suppose you could, but a Chinese mode would be a more logical choice. There is a discussion involving a Mandarin mode currently going on at the Elfling Yahoo group. Here's a suggestion:

Huang


Great! Thank again!

[Edited on 8/3/2006 by Josephine_jfh]
Cemolo
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: March 07, 2006 07:32

1. Lilia
Bernd
Gianni
Nico
2. English, and phonemic and orthographic tehta mode
3. Formal hand, one ring


For the phonemic mode, I am making the assumption that 'Bernd' is pronounced in the German manner, i. e. with the e pronounced as in E. 'bed' and with the final d pronounced like t. I am also assuming that 'Gianni' is pronounced like Italian. If not, the phonemic transcriptions would be different from what I give. Though g is normally transcribed in the orthographic English mode with the tengwa called ungwe regardless of whether it is hard or soft, I used anga for the soft g as in the Italian mode:

Lilia, Bernd, Gianni, Nico



All I can say is THANK YOU, this is awesome. It is greatly greatly appreciated. The pronounciation assumptions you made were correct, the names are pronounced just like that. That's awesome. Finally I know what it really looks like because I have tried to transcribe it but somehow it wasn't completely right, so once again thank you!
LordofWhite
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: March 23, 2006 05:24
hey,

I am very new to all this elvish stuff though i have loved the novel for many years.

Can you please translate "Samuel" into Quenya, and write it in the "one ring cursive style", im not really sure what mode is and all but you can do it in whatever mode seems appropriate.

Many a thanks
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: March 30, 2006 05:05
Can you please translate "Samuel" into Quenya, and write it in the "one ring cursive style"


The Quenya Lapseparma suggests two possible translations for 'Samuel': Eruesso and Erulasto.
Here they are in tengwar:

Eruesso, Erulasto
LordofWhite
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: April 03, 2006 11:54
DUDE...thats awesome

can i also get "Riley"...just like the other one (one ring style...quenya)

U ROCK

tyty
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: April 04, 2006 10:30
"Riley"...just like the other one (one ring style...quenya)


CoE's Quenya Names Database gives two suggestions for 'Riley' : Celumë and Sírincë. Here are how they are written with tengwar:

Celumë, Sírincë
Ranwen
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: April 26, 2006 09:19
Suilad Uialdil_i_degilbor,

I let some people check the translation and this is how it becomes. I know that Olorë is written a little bit different then you thought it should be. It was used as a name and it is always written like this. So if you want to write it in Tengwar I would be very pleased

Ai ú nathant
ai naun ului
a chuil, anann cuiannen
a meleth, perónen.

Olorë


(It means:
For what might have been
for what never was
for a live, long lived
for a love half given.)


2) I don't know, just like what is most common.
3) Formal book hand and Verse book, if it is not to much work.

Thanks a lot,
Ranwen :hug:

PS. the white line between the forth and fifth had to be there
ihavetoknow
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: April 30, 2006 08:49
I am very new at this and really need help...any help is much appreciated!

Carnedil Hirilonde

and

muinanelde taureyarallo

I would like it translated into English...
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 09, 2006 06:23

Ai ú nathant
ai naun ului
a chuil, anann cuiannen
a meleth, perónen.

Olorë

2) I don't know, just like what is most common.
3) Formal book hand and Verse book, if it is not to much work.


All I could do with 'Olorë' is transliterate it letter by letter. It is not Sindarin, so I couldn't exactly call it written in Sindarin. And spelt with a short vowel, it isn't properly Quenya either. Keep in mind that by Tolkien's pronunciation rules, 'Olorë' must have the stress on the first syllable as opposed to Olórë, which is stresed on the second syllable.

Ai ú-nathant...
Ranwen
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 09, 2006 10:11
Thanks a lot,Ranwen
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