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Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 02, 2005 06:30

Schweitzer - prodnouced like Albert Schweitzer...
(pronounced:SWITE-zer, but wirtten as Schweitzer)


Okay, before I do it, let me get a little clarification. You say, "pronounced like Albert Schweitzer." but then you give a phonetic representation 'SWITE-zer'. Which is it? Albert Schweitzer's last name is pronounced 'SHVITE-ser'. He was, after all, German (Alsace was part of Germany when he was born there). The pronunciation you want is very important when writing in the phonemic mode.
sweetkissis
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 03, 2005 04:45
ALBERT SCHWEITZER... I'm directly related to him... sorry.. yah it's German... THANKS
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 04, 2005 06:13
Schweitzer
butterflyfaerie21
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 07, 2005 10:33
ok i am getting married in a little bit (2 months) and me and my fiance want to have our wedding rings engraved with elvish and if you don't mind i'd like to have 3 different choices if you don't want to do that then the top please.
"Nathan and Tera forever"
"One Ring, One Love, One Life"
"Today, Tomorrow, and Forever After"

in Sindarin
and Formal book hand

and thank you so much if you can do this! which i hope you can!
butterflyfaerie21
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 07, 2005 10:38
sorry my fiance changed his mind he wants the ring inscription cursive. thanks again!
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 08, 2005 05:38

"Nathan and Tera forever"
"One Ring, One Love, One Life"
"Today, Tomorrow, and Forever After"

in Sindarin


Sorry, but as I stated above, I do not translate into Sindarin or Quenya in this thread: it is for tengwar transcription only. I suggest that you request help in translating in the regular forum. If you get a translation there that you like, I can transcribe that into tengwar. Or if you want the English phrases transcribed into tengwar, I can do that.
butterflyfaerie21
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 08, 2005 06:32
i'm sorry i'm very new to this i didn't realize that sindarin wasn't tengwar i thought sindarin was a style of it... my fiance had download a tengwar font and tengwar was what we are wanting... but we couldn't translate it right.. the sounds were off. sorry once again. if you could please go ahead and do it in tengwar???
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 08, 2005 12:55
You didn't specify the mode, but since you requested the One Ring style, I would assume that the tehta mode would be the best choice, because the idiosyncratic tehtar are one of the most distinctive features of that style. The last suggestion ('Today, Tomorrow, and Forever After') displays the character of the One Ring Inscription Cursive Style best.

Nathan and Tera

[Edited on 9/8/2005 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]
butterflyfaerie21
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 08, 2005 10:05
thank you thank you thank you!!!!! i can't say it enough!!!! now i just have to find someone to engrave it! thank you once again!
Ranya
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 14, 2005 02:41
As requested before.
1. Not all those who wander are lost
2. English tengwar
3. Decorative/ Formal hand or what ever looks cool. (similar to the one you did for Kaytee in a calligraphic rendering)

If's possibly for a tat, so thanks so much!
sindarinelvish
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 14, 2005 04:07
Uialdil,

Question: I am working on some of my own Tengwar and was wondering what writing instrument you use. There are calligraphy pens with various width nibs/colored ink cartridges and the craft stores also sell felt tipped markers with slanted nibs. Do you prefer one of these?

Thanks,

SE
SindyE Nad dithen carnen an gwend.
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 16, 2005 05:36

1. Not all those who wander are lost
2. English tengwar
3. Decorative/ Formal hand or what ever looks cool. (similar to the one you did for Kaytee in a calligraphic rendering)


You didn't specify what mode, but since you mention the one I did for Kaytee, I will assume you want the orthographic tehta mode.

Not all those who wander are lost
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 16, 2005 05:44

I am working on some of my own Tengwar and was wondering what writing instrument you use. There are calligraphy pens with various width nibs/colored ink cartridges and the craft stores also sell felt tipped markers with slanted nibs. Do you prefer one of these?


For internet posting, I often use calligraphy markers because of the bright colours available. They tend to scan better than coloured India ink. In 'real life' I more commonly use an Osmiroid fountain pen (Platignum and Schaeffer also make some good calligraphic fountain pens) and sometimes a crow's quill dip pen for tehtar and other details. I have also used Speedball dip pens and steel brushes. I have nibs in various sizes, but 2.75mm is the size I use most commonly.
Ranya
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 16, 2005 06:16
Thanks so much. All I can give is praise.

sindarinelvish
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 18, 2005 11:30
A thousand thanks, Uialdil. Your work is absolutely beautiful.
SindyE Nad dithen carnen an gwend.
Ranya
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 18, 2005 07:20
Stupid question, but what is exactly the orthographic tetha mode?
OK, well here are my other stupid questions cause to be honest I just started learning.
The quote you gave me"Not all those...". When I translated it into tengwar I got some different symbols. I'm not surprised cause I did just start learning this. But, I was wondering does the Quenya/Sindarin language have any influence on how it is translated...that is into the tengwar script? I mean, can you translate that quote from Quenya into the tengwar script?
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 19, 2005 10:34
First let's clarify a few terms: it will help make things easier. To translate means to put something into the words of a different language. Tengwar is not a language: it's a writing system. You can't translate anything into tengwar. You can transcribe or transliterate (in this context, they mean the same thing) words into tengwar: that means to change a word into the characters of a different alphabet. When you transcribe an English word into an English tengwar mode, Quenya and Sindarin don't enter into the picture. The letters are used differently in the different languages. For example, the tengwa (letter) anga represents ng when you write a Quenya word with that tengwa in it. In Sindarin, it represents g, and in English, it represents j. The quote from the Riddle of Strider was in English, so I wrote it in an English mode. It doesn't matter what the letters represent in Sindarin or Quenya. Some people have attempted to translate the poem into Quenya or Sindarin, but it's not really appropriate to do so: Bilbo wrote the poem in Westron, not in 'Elvish'. Tolkien used English to represent the Westron language.

You also asked what the orthographic tehta mode is. There are different modes for writing English with tengwar. The orthographic modes are based on the traditional spelling of English. The phonemic modes are based on pronunciation rather than traditional spelling. Another designation is whether it is a full-writing mode or a tehta mode. A full writing mode uses individual tengwar to represent vowels. In a tehta mode, the vowels are not written as separate letters: they are represented by tehtar, the dots, curls, accents, tildes, etc. above and below the tengwar. In the piece I posted for you, the tengwar are written in black, and the tehtar are in red. So to say that it is written in the orthographic tehta mode means that it is in a mode based on traditional English spelling instead of pronunciation, and the vowels are written as tehtar instead of being written out in full. Honestly, the orthographic full-writing mode is the easiest English mode to learn, but I think the tehta mode is much prettier!
RoseHawke
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 19, 2005 11:01
I hope this isn't a duplicate, this forum is slightly different from what I'm used to and it appears that my first effort has gone into cyberspace .

First, I apologize for apparently being one of those people who pop in and register to get one question answered and are never heard from again. Hopefully I will return, but I've been looking for this all morning and I am most regretfully NOT a Tolkien scholar.

I could probably find this somewhere but I just want to make sure it's right rather than winging it as it were.
My cats' names:

1.Narsil
1.Mithril
2.I'm sorry, I have no idea as to mode --- whatever's "prettier" and that I can find a font for
3.Ditto, probably One Ring and/or Book Hand.

I'm trying to do a graphical banner of them for my website and Tengwar is so pretty I thought it would make a nice design element.

Many, many thanks! Oh, and if you ever need a graphic done, let me know !

RoseHawke

[Edited on 19/8/2005 by RoseHawke]
Ranya
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 19, 2005 02:24
Thanks.
That's what I thought but I kept reading things that got me all confused.
So here's another question for you. If you were to transcribe "roxy" into tengwar, let's see if I have this right. Would you use...
"romen" "quesse" "o tehtar" "slime" "anna"?
Can you do this for me in some different modes so I can see the difference a little better?!
Thanks for the clarification!!!
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 19, 2005 03:54

1.Narsil
1.Mithril
2.I'm sorry, I have no idea as to mode --- whatever's "prettier" and that I can find a font for
3.Ditto, probably One Ring and/or Book Hand.


Keep in mind that we're dealing with two different languages (Narsil is Quenya, Mithril is Sindarin), so the modes are different. The best font for both Formal Book Hand and One Ring Inscription Cursive is Johan Winge's Tengwar Annatar font.

Narsil, Mithril
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 19, 2005 04:04

"romen" "quesse" "o tehtar" "slime" "anna"?
Can you do this for me in some different modes so I can see the difference a little better?!


That's a good attempt, but it's not quite it. In the tehta mode, anna is a consonantal y, but in 'Roxy' y is a vowel. The y vowel tehta is shaped like a check mark. And s following a consonant (x = ks) is often written as a hook-shaped tehta attached to the preceding tengwa. The s-hook attached to quesse can be written two different ways. Here's Roxy
written in three different English modes:

Roxy
RoseHawke
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 20, 2005 01:34

1.Narsil
1.Mithril
2.I'm sorry, I have no idea as to mode --- whatever's "prettier" and that I can find a font for
3.Ditto, probably One Ring and/or Book Hand.


Keep in mind that we're dealing with two different languages (Narsil is Quenya, Mithril is Sindarin), so the modes are different. The best font for both Formal Book Hand and One Ring Inscription Cursive is Johan Winge's Tengwar Annatar font.

Narsil, Mithril

Thank you so much! I suspected that Mithril and Narsil might be two different languages (dialects?) but really didn't have the time right at the moment to look into the matter. I don't think any of my people will really notice, in any case.

Reading Appendix E last night I just had to shake my head as there was just no way I could learn this in any reasonable amount of time to make it worth it. Something for my retirement .

Thank you again!
rose
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 20, 2005 02:02
hi. i too am a beginner, and would much appreciate your help. i have made attemps myself but get more confused with each try.

could you please transcript

Mark - a light to me in dark places, when all other lights go out (or as close as you can)
Both modes would be really helpful
In formal book hand

thanks for any help that you can give me.
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 21, 2005 05:17

Mark - a light to me in dark places, when all other lights go out (or as close as you can)
Both modes would be really helpful
In formal book hand


Both? There are several English tengwar modes that Tolkien used, and I deal with three of them in this thread. I transcribed it into all three:

Mark: a light...
rose
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 21, 2005 10:01
thankyou so much for these, they really are great.

i did realise i had made a mistake in asking for both but it was late when i posted and i was too tired to post again. :yawn:
they are exactly what i wanted and i really do appreciate you taking time to help me, i just hope my tattooist does it justice.

thanks again. :hug:
katiej
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 26, 2005 06:49
Hi,

can anyone tell me what these two words mean? And how do you pronounce them?

thanks!

Image

Image
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 27, 2005 03:40

can anyone tell me what these two words mean? And how do you pronounce them?


This thread isn't really the right place for this, but ... I can tell you how they are pronounced. The first (Poice) is pronounced 'POY-keh'. The second (Undusirme) is pronounced 'oon-doo-SEER-meh'. Judging from the e at the end of each, I guess they are meant to be Quenya translations of name. The first is from Quenya poica and means 'clean'. That is the suggestion that the Quenya Lapseparma gives as a translation for 'Agnes'. As for Undusirme, I haven't vaguest idea what name it is meant to be a translation of.
Fíriel
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 27, 2005 05:29
Hi Uialdil,

As for Undusirme, I haven't vaguest idea what name it is meant to be a translation of.


it's from the Quenya section of the Elvish Names Database, under Jordan:

Jordan From the name of the river Yarden meaning "flow down" Q. masc. Undusirmo fem. Undusirmë
Anoriel_of_Doriath
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 29, 2005 05:40
Greetings, Uialdil!

I am creating a little stone carving for my garden and would like to have a greeting translated:

1. Mae tollen nan hant Anoriel

2. mode of Beleriand

3. pointed style, I guess, since it would be more suitable to carve

Thank you very much--so generous of you to do this.

Anoriel
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 30, 2005 06:02

1. Mae tollen nan hant Anoriel

2. mode of Beleriand

3. pointed style, I guess, since it would be more suitable to carve


I have made one small emendation: the name must have a long ó: Anóriel
(cf. Anórien, 'Land of the Sun'). There's no way around it according to the rules of Sindarin phonology.

Mae tollen...


[Edited on 30/8/2005 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]
Anoriel_of_Doriath
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: August 30, 2005 06:10
I have made one small emendation: the name must have a long ó: Anóriel (cf. Anórien, 'Land of the Sun'). There's no way around it according to the rules of Sindarin phonology.


Doh! I knew that, but forgot to tweak the translation. Many thanks--I think this will look beautiful. I'll post a link to a photo when I finish the project.

Anóriel
Ortaine
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: September 07, 2005 03:36
Hi there, I don't know if this is going to be too long, but I'd like the first line of Galadriel's prolouge from the movie in tengwar, for a future tattoo.

1. I amar prestar aen
2. I don't really understand this option, so ehm, suprise me?
3.doors of Durin or Verse Hand

thanks very much
--Ortaine

[Edited on 8/9/2005 by Ortaine]

[Edited on 10/9/2005 by Ortaine]
Ranya
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: September 08, 2005 05:49
Ok, now I need help again. Just wondering if you could do me a similar tansliteration that you did for me before for the Riddle of Stridder please!

1. The Journey Is My Home
2. Orthographic tehta mode
3. calligraphic rendering, or something like you did before.

I'm setting up my webpage for travel and would like that as the header. Any help would be so greatly appreciated! Thanks so much!
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: September 08, 2005 06:01
1. I amar prestar aen
2. I don't really understand this option, so ehm, suprise me?
3.doors of Durin or Verse Hand


The link to the transcription follows, but I must give this caution: *I amar prestar aen is unlikely to be good Sindarin. No one even knows for sure what aen means.

I amar prestar aen.
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: September 09, 2005 12:24
1. The Journey Is My Home
2. Orthographic tehta mode
3. calligraphic rendering, or something like you did before.


The Journey is my Home.
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