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Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 09, 2005 02:01

I couldnt find the halla with alt + 0189, all the special characters are U+something. Could you please draw it for me so I can find it here?

I'm posting a detail of Table 3 of the Tengwar Annatar Read-Me file. The cell outlined with pink is the halla. It looks like a simple raised stem with no bow attached. If you use the hex codes rather than the decimal codes, try U+00BD.

Halla in the Tengwar Annatar font

[Edited on 10/2/2005 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]

kaamos

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 10, 2005 08:37

thanx for the information!

So I replaced the symbol that looks like a coma by the Halla, now it looks like this:

if you tell me this is now completely correct, i'll be on the way to the tattoo studio

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 10, 2005 02:54

if you tell me this is now completely correct, i'll be on the way to the tattoo studio

Not quite. You changed to word echais to bronwe. As pointed out by Fíriel, the b would lenite to v: vronwe. Therefore you should change the initial umbar to ampa. Also, the construction VCw- is attested attested in the word edwen in the King's Letter. The correct way to write vronwe is awkward looking, and I don't think it can be done right with the Tengwar Annatar font without modifying it in PhotoShop or some other program, but here's how it should be written:

vronwe

kaamos

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 11, 2005 02:20

ow, I see... I'll try to change it using photoshop, then.
Thank you very much!! *hugs*

Eleniel567

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 12, 2005 04:51

ok please please please help me!! i want to learn this, i dont want it handed to me. if you could please give me advice on how to get started i would be very greatful. i like Languages and already know numorous ones, i am almost begging you to help me!!! if you have any info on books,internet sites(not geocities.com) i have already tried that site and all it does is confuse me. but once again any info you could supply to me would be amazing! thank you and i hope to hear from you soon. a quick way to get in touch with me is by my e-mail which is [email protected]

clovered

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 16, 2005 04:06

Good morning...

I hope you don't mind a newbie crashing in and asking for help, but I'm intending to get a tattoo and I want to make sure I have the design correct - for obvious reasons.

So... How might I go about getting the following transcribed into Sindarin, please?

1. The word 'geek'
2. Erm... Yes. No idea, I'm sorry, I'm completely lost.
3. Formal Book Hand and The Doors of Durin script.

Thank you *so* much in advance for any help!

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 17, 2005 01:29

ok please please please help me!! i want to learn this, i dont want it handed to me. if you could please give me advice on how to get started i would be very greatful.

You might check out Fíriel's chart for The Mode of Beleriand and Naneth's Easy Tengwar chart here at the Council of Elrond. They are especially useful in typing with the fonts. Måns Björkman has the best article on the Quenya Classical Mode that I've seen, at his website called 'Amanye Tenceli'. He also has an article on the Sindarin Mode of Beleriand. And you might want to check out Per Lindberg's Tengwar Guides for Quenya and Sindarin at the 'Mellonath Daeron' site. You mentioned a GeoCities site; I'm assuming that you're referring to Chris McKay's Tengwar Textbook. I admit that it can be hard to follow and there's a lot of material there to wade through. Also, there's quite a bit there with which I disagree. For that matter, there are some points in Per Lindberg's that I don't quite agree with.

The most informative sources are Tengwar samples written by Tolkien himself. I would recommend finding as many of the Tengwar specimina listed on Mellonath Daeron's Index and study them. Learning by Tolkien's own example is the way many of us learned.

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 18, 2005 01:22

So... How might I go about getting the following transcribed into Sindarin, please?

1. The word 'geek'
2. Erm... Yes. No idea, I'm sorry, I'm completely lost.
3. Formal Book Hand and The Doors of Durin script.

I can't transcribe an English word into Sindarin because Sindarin is a language, not a writing system. What I can do is transcribe an English word in a mode that Tolkien devised for English. I am posting a link to 'geek' written in four different English modes using the script styles you requested.

'Geek' in tengwar

clovered

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 19, 2005 11:41

I can't transcribe an English word into Sindarin because Sindarin is a language, not a writing system. What I can do is transcribe an English word in a mode that Tolkien devised for English. I am posting a link to 'geek' written in four different English modes using the script styles you requested.

'Geek' in tengwar

Thank you SO much! The versions you did for me were all gorgeous, and me and my boyfriend have spent ages debating over which one I should pick.

I do have one question for you though, if you have the time to answer more of them... I attempted to translate the word myself before looking for the expert opinion, and the result I got was *slightly* different. The g and k were the same, but I read that the double e would have a slightly longer downward stroke and a left to right accent. Is that just a different script, or did I get the translation completely wrong?

Ps - I don't mean to offend in any way, I'm terribly grateful for the help you've given me. I just like to know *why* I'm wrong and learn from it.

clovered

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 22, 2005 09:00

Sorry, I realised that was pretty unspecific...! The version I came up with was closest to the othographic tehta mode that you drew. The only difference was there was the one single letter to represent the double 'e', and it was pretty much just a longer version of the two 'i' llke letters in your example.

Is there a specific reason for that difference, or am I just hopelessly wrong?

Thanks

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: February 22, 2005 01:25

I used an attested example for the representation of ee in that mode. On the title page, the word 'seen' is written with two short carriers with acute accent tehtar over them. Tolkien seemed to rarely use long carriers (the tengwa that looks like an undotted j) for English. There are two words on the title page of LotR that are written with long carriers ('by', 'history'), but I can think of no other example of a long carrier used as a vowel by Tolkien in an English tehta mode. (He did use the long carrier as consonantal y in some modes.) This is probably because what English phonetics refers to as long vowels are not truly long vowels. I would avoid using the long carrier for doubled vowels. A better alternative than the long carrier would be to use a doubled accent over the k tengwa, but I prefer following an example written by Tolkien himself.

clovered

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: March 05, 2005 03:34

You are absolutely right, of course. Thank you *so* much for the help, it's all very much appreciated.

babykaks

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 03, 2005 12:52

Hi I have looked every where for this info and love the fact that you are taking the time out of what I am sure is a very busy life to help all of us who need it, let me tell you it is very very appreciated. I was wondering if you could show me what the name Michel and Vikki(Victoria) would look like in tengwar in the script font of the one ring. From what I have found Michel is Manbechir in Sindarin and Vikki is Turwen (maiden of victory) are these correct? If so could you send me a pic of what would they would look like. I would like these as momentos of my son and me I would really like to see the phrase "Michel, Light of my heart" would look like in the same font. Thank you for all your help, if possible could you seperate all these for me? [email protected]

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 05, 2005 08:06

Babykaks, you didn't specify what mode you wanted them in, but I will assume the tehta Sindarin mode since you requested the One Ring script.

Michel- Okay, a few thoughts: I realise that the Sindarin Names Data Base here gives Manbechír, but I disagree for a few reasons. One is simple phonology: an -n would become -m before a the labial sounds p-, b-, m- (cf. celebrin-paur > Celebrimbor, brithon-bâr > Brithombar, annûn-minas > Annúminas). So, if you want to use those elements, the form would have to be Mambechír. I would not use those elements. Though be is apparently a cognate of Q. ve ('like, as'), be seems to mean, rather, 'according to'; 'Like' or 'as' is attested as sui. Also, the name 'Michel' contains the Hebrew word 'El, which means 'God', not 'the Lord'. So, I'd consider the words
man = 'who'
sui = 'like'
Eru = 'God'
My suggestion for a Sindarin translation would be Mansuieru (pronounced mahn-SOO-yeh-roo). Here are tengwar transcriptions of both Mambechír and Mansuieru:

Michel

Victoria- Though Turwen is an acceptable form, the tengwar version contains an ugly combination of tehtar over the rómen. In my opinion, Túreth, which is equally correct, looks better in tengwar, plus the pronunciation is prettier as well.

Victoria

'Light of my heart' is galad e-guren. Here it is combined with the two versions of Michael (I used the italic Tengwar Annatar font, but was forced to use Wordpad, so I had to add the tehtar by hand ... sorry!):

Michel, light of my heart

[Edited on 18/7/2005 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]

babykaks

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 05, 2005 01:08

Thank you very much for your time and explainations of everything . You really are an assest to this site and to all who need the translations and printing. This helps me very much again thank you form the bottom of my heart.

Gelirion

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 11, 2005 03:30

thank you very much for being so helpful. I do appreciate your work.

1. Andùril, Faith, Happy, Gerilion (or Gerilon).
2. Phonemic Mode.
3. Formal Book Hand.

thanks again.

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 13, 2005 06:06

First I will give 'faith' and 'happy'.
Faith/Happy

Now about Andúril: it is a Quenya word, not English. The English phonemic mood is appropriate for English only. I will give what the phonemic mode would be, but with the caution that it should not be used. I also give you the classical Quenya mode, the correct mode to use. According to the book, the name of Andúril was written in runes upon its scabbard, so I also give the cirth in the mode appropriate for Quenya:
Andúril

Now about the last request: Did you want Gelirion, your user name (which is Sindarin and should be written in a Sindarin mode), or 'Gerilion', as you wrote? If so, you need to let me know how 'Gerilion' is pronounced, since that is the basis of the phonemic spelling.

Gelirion

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 13, 2005 11:10

thank you so much for your replay.....
I'm sorry but it seems like I mistyped it. it is as you said, my display name, Geliron.
it also, as you know, means happy..but I wanted to know if it also written the same.
and is there any difference between Geliron and Gelirion??
can you also please tell me how the words "faith" and "Geliron" are written in classical Sindarin??....and how the word Faith is pronounced??

thank you so much again....I highly appreciate your helpfulness..

[Edited on 14/5/2005 by Gelirion]

[Edited on 14/5/2005 by Gelirion]

kaytee

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 15, 2005 02:42

Firstly I would like to be among the many who are so thankful to you for offering to do this. Your work is awesome!
I saw in an earlier posting that you have done The Riddle of Strider in different styles. I was wondering what those styles are and if there are links that you have where I could see them and maybe download. I'm particularly interested in the "Not all who wander are lost" passage and I would like to print it out (and maybe enlarge it a bit on nice paper) so I could put it on my wall.
Again, thanks so much.

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 16, 2005 10:00

thank you so much for your replay.....
I'm sorry but it seems like I mistyped it. it is as you said, my display name, Geliron.
it also, as you know, means happy..but I wanted to know if it also written the same.
and is there any difference between Geliron and Gelirion??
can you also please tell me how the words "faith" and "Geliron" are written in classical Sindarin??....and how the word Faith is pronounced??

There is a difference. The ending -ion indicates 'son of', e.g. Gildor Inglorion (Gildor, son of Inglor) and Aragorn Arathornion (Aragorn, son of Arathorn). Gelirion would mean 'son of Gelir'. Gelir is the Sindarin translation of Merry Gamgee's first name in the King's Letter, so you could say that Gelirion properly means 'son of Merry'. Of course merry and happy are synonyms. Gelir is a word found only in the King's Letter; Geliron exists nowhere in Tolkien's writings. Actually, the masculine ending -on is unnecessary since the word Gelir obviously can serve as a name without adding a suffix. Here are the three words in the mode of Gondor:
Gelir, Geliron, Gelirion

Faith: We don't know for sure what the Sindarin word for 'faith' is, but David Salo suggested estel based on a passage in Morgoth's Ring. Estel is usually glossed as 'hope'. It is pronounced like it looks. It can be written in tengwar in either of the two ways shown in the following:

estel

Gelirion

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 16, 2005 04:54

Thank you so much.....I appreciate your help..
God bless you

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 19, 2005 12:58

I saw in an earlier posting that you have done The Riddle of Strider in different styles. I was wondering what those styles are and if there are links that you have where I could see them and maybe download. I'm particularly interested in the "Not all who wander are lost" passage and I would like to print it out (and maybe enlarge it a bit on nice paper) so I could put it on my wall.

I've done it in Formal Book Hand, Pointed Style, Doors of Durin Inscription Style, Decorated Verse Hand, One Ring Inscription Cursive and Elven Scribal Hand, which is a personal style I designed. I have written it in a variety of modes as well. I did those for people who requested them and, as they were personal pieces, I did not scan them, so apart from the version you've already seen, I do not have links to them. Below is a link to a calligraphic rendering of "Not all those who wander are lost."

Not all those who wander are lost.

[Edited on 19/5/2005 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]

kaytee

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 20, 2005 03:09

Wow! That calligraphic one is beatiful! What style/mode is it? Regardless- it is so nice. Thank you very much or as they (we ) say- le hannon.
Kaytee

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 20, 2005 10:53

Wow! That calligraphic one is beatiful! What style/mode is it?

The style is Formal Book Hand with some flourishes. The mode is Orthographic Tehta Mode for English.

Thank you very much or as they (we ) say- le hannon.

Many of us avoid **le hannon since it's not Sindarin or Quenya. The verb **hanna- was invented by David Salo, not by J. R. R. Tolkien.

annajennifer

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 21, 2005 07:54

hi there. i was wondering if you could help me translate the meaning of my name.
i think this is all the information you need:

1. graceful
2. phonemic mode
3. formal book hand and cursive(one ring)

if you could show me the two font styles that would be fantastic!
thank you very much for taking the time to held me.

anna x

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 22, 2005 09:03

hi there. i was wondering if you could help me translate the meaning of my name.
i think this is all the information you need:

1. graceful
2. phonemic mode
3. formal book hand and cursive(one ring)

if you could show me the two font styles that would be fantastic!
thank you very much for taking the time to held me.

anna x

Okay, I need some clarification here. You say you want your name translated, but you don't say which language you want it translated into. Also, you asked for phonemic mode; the phonemic mode is appropriate for English ... and only English. Quenya and Sindarin should be written in Quenya and Sindarin, not English, modes.

In this thread, I don't use fonts. The replies to requests are handwritten. But if you want to see samples of the different styles, click here.

I'll be glad to write what you want, but I need to know what I'm writing.

(By the way, the name 'Anna' comes from Hebrew 'hannâh', which means 'grace', not 'graceful'. We have a Quenya word for 'grace' attested: Eruanna.)

annajennifer

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 22, 2005 11:04

i have tried to understand how to do this but im really stuck.
i thought i had given you all the information you needed but odviously i was way off!
am i right in saying that quenya style is where you put the vowels above the letter they follow and sindarin is above the letter they precede?
i had tried to write the word in quenya tengwar but wasnt sure if i was right in doing this.
i basically would like the 'graceful' in quenya and if you could show me this in cursive (one ring) that would be a great help.
hope i have not confused you even more by what i have said!
anna x
like i said, i would love to give you a better idea but i really dont know.
thanks x

[Edited on 24/5/2005 by annajennifer]

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 24, 2005 12:44

I'm afraid I am more confused. If you want 'graceful' translated into Quenya, I'm afraid I can't help you there; Tolkien didn't give us such a word. If rather than a translation you wanted a tengwar transcription of the English worg 'graceful', that I can do. Below is the word 'graceful' in the English phonemic mode in both the One Ring Inscription Cursive style and Formal Book Hand.

'Graceful'

annajennifer

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: May 25, 2005 12:21

sorry i confused you even more!!
i told you i had no idea what i was talking about.
what you have shown me is exactly what i wanted!
thank you so much!! its fantastic!
anna x

andanthor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: June 04, 2005 06:51

This is for our wedding rings, will marry in two weeks. Thanks a lot for your help.

1. "one ring to bind them"
2. no idea since I have no clue as to the sindarin modes. Please choose the one you prefer (any particular mode matches the one ring?)
3. one ring inscription cursive

Peter101

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: June 06, 2005 03:31

Hi there.

Could you help me to translate the meaning of my name please. Hopefully I have all the information for you. I'm looking for a Tengwar transcription of the english phrase 'the rock'. In English phonemic mode in the One Ring Inscription cursive style.

Hope that gives you everything you need.

Many thanks,

Pete

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: June 06, 2005 10:43

This is for our wedding rings, will marry in two weeks. Thanks a lot for your help.

1. "one ring to bind them"
2. no idea since I have no clue as to the sindarin modes. Please choose the one you prefer (any particular mode matches the one ring?)
3. one ring inscription cursive

Since the phrase you're requesting is in English, you would want an English mode, not a Sindarin one. The one that looks best for the One Ring Inscription Cursive is the Orthographic Tehta Mode because the idiosyncratic tehtar are one of the most distinctive features of that style.

One ring to bind them

Uialdil_i_degilbor

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RE: Tengwar transcription help
on: June 07, 2005 02:36