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Little Fair One
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on: September 16, 2013 02:33
Could someone translate the follow phrase into proper Sindarin for me please? I would greatly appreciate it.

Love is having the strength to fight
legolasthedude
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on: September 20, 2013 04:45
Meleth garol i tu maetho.
Galadivren
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on: September 21, 2013 01:22
Well, almost.

Meleth o 'ared i vellas an vaethad = Love (is) about having the strength for fighting.

Legolasthedude - you put 'Love you have the muscle fight' and you hadn't mutated things either (any word following the word the = i takes soft mutation).
Cillendor
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on: September 21, 2013 07:19
I was thinking along the lines of
Melad (na) saved i gaun am maethad.
To love (is) to possess the courage for fighting.

The reason I used melad instead of meleth is because the actual English word ought to be the infinitive, "to love". Little Fair One's sentence isn't grammatically correct—it should read, "Loving is having" or "To love is to have".

I used saf- instead of gar- because saf- means "to possess" while gar- means "to hold". The latter has a physical connotation, while the former can include abstract ownership. Also, I used the gerund ending -(e)d rather than the present participle -ol because the function of this verb here is as an infinitive (expressed in Sindarin as a gerund). The present participle is an adjective and doesn't really fit here.

I used caun "valour, courage" instead of tû or bellas because the "strength to fight" is talking about emotional strength, not physical strength. Barring caun, I would have gone with bellas because tû seems (at least to me) to suggest purely muscular strength, while bellas seems to refer to the total strength of the body, physical or not. In either cause you mustn't forget the accent on the 'u', and you need to mutate the word as it follows i. So for future reference, it'd be i dû.

And lastly, I used am maethad (mutated from an maethad) for two reasons. First, I used the preposition an because the sentence reads "to fight", or better, "for fighting" (they mean the same thing, but the latter shows that we're dealing with another gerund). Second, I used the gerund instead of the infinitive because Sindarin practically never uses the infinitive. Tolkien created an infinitive tense, but he never used it for anything. Sindarin instead uses the gerund tense. English does this often, too, as in the example above ("to love" vs. "for loving" ), but Sindarin does it 100% of the time (of which we know).

So anyway, with a few slight tweaks, your translation is good to go.

EDIT: Darnit, Galadivren! I hadn't refreshed the page since I opened it last night, so I didn't see your post. Anyway, where's the o 'ared from? And you just use standard lenition with an m?

[Edited on 09/21/2013 by Cillendor]
Galadivren
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on: September 22, 2013 03:24
Aye on second thoughts I'd use saf- too.

o 'ared = about having (holding). o haved then.

Yes I use normal soft mutation with an, I don't believe the other would be used in Third Age+ Sindarin, personally.

I'm going to quibble with your use of 'loving' over 'love' though. 'Love' is an uncountable noun, 'to love' is an infinitive marker with the infinitive of the verb (which questionably doesn't exist in Sindarin), and to me the sentence takes a subtly different shade of meaning if you change them. Not going to argue with the rest though, just depends how you view the sentence!
Cillendor
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on: September 22, 2013 09:27
For an, how does one know when various mutations should apply?

I'm still sticking with melad over meleth, but of course it's Little Fair One's choice. My reasoning, again, is because the sentence isn't talking about the abstract feeling of love. It's talking about the action of loving. "If you love, then you have the strength to fight." That's how I see it. Maybe the other way really is better, though, and I'm just interpreting it wrongly.

A final question, though, is are you not using the D-mutation for od?
Galadivren
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on: September 22, 2013 12:50
It's not od (from/of) it's o(h) (about) which has its own set from PE17.

As for mixed mutation, I'm not entirely convinced it actually exists, nor are some other Sindarin scholars. Other people will argue 'well it ends in an 'n' therefore use nasal mutation'.

[Edited on 09/22/2013 by Galadivren]
Little Fair One
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on: September 23, 2013 08:14
Cillendor, I'm a little confused as to where you're coming from with your translation because I'm not sure courage is the word I'm going for. However, I do like Galadivren's take on it "Love is about having the strength for fighting." Can you confirm that "Meleth o 'ared i vellas an vaethad" would be correct? I'm trying to get as close to my original saying as possible because this is for a small tattoo in Tengwar Annatar.
Galadivren
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on: September 25, 2013 06:06
I'd swap the verbs for 'to have' as I mentioned above, which would make it

Meleth o haved i vellas an vaethad
Cillendor
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on: September 25, 2013 11:17
Oooh, I see the oh now. This stuff is confusing sometimes. :/ Why would they say mixed mutation exists if it may not? Where did the theory first arise?

Sorry, Little Fair One. I was getting speculative there. By "courage", I meant "fortitude of spirit", not "bravery". But it doesn't work very well, as it is obviously confusing. I defer to Galadivren.
Galadivren
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on: September 26, 2013 03:18
Fairly certain it first arose in A Gateway to Sindarin.
Cillendor
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on: September 28, 2013 10:02
Huh okay. So in place of mixed mutation, what would you use? Just nasal mutation? Do you have a separate pattern for conjugating prefs and prefixes ending in m?
KeninMcC
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on: October 04, 2013 05:43
Hey!
So I am looking at getting a tattoo written in Elvish, but before transcribing it into script I was hoping to translate it into Sindarin.

The Phrase is
"The Show Must Go On"

Any help would be awesome

Thanks
Galadivren
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on: October 05, 2013 01:54
The word 'show' isn't easily translatable into Sindarin, as the meaning as in 'a spectacle' comes ultimately from 'to see'. 'The seeing must endure' doesn't really give the same meaning/impression!

Great song though, either version. I'd suggest you just get the English transcribed directly into Tengwar.

[Edited on 10/05/2013 by Galadivren]
KeninMcC
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on: October 06, 2013 05:16
I figured I might have to do that!
Thanks
nheath
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on: October 14, 2013 04:09
Image
i was wondering weather anyone could help me translate the above picture? my best friend has had it tattooed on her arm but did not check the translation, so if anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

[Edited on 10/14/2013 by nheath]
saerwen_tariel
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on: October 20, 2013 02:18
I believe the picture says 'forever and always samuel' however I'm afraid I had to guess slightly for a few letters. It is not actually in Sindarin but in a form of elvish tengwar. I can explain more about what made it difficult to read and how it works but if simple a translation was all you were looking for, I don't want to be confusing.
Image
ElendaeMortang
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on: October 30, 2013 08:20
I wanted to confirm a translation. I used the Pedin Edhellen grammar book and Hisweloke's dictionary as the basis.

Nothing is true; everything is permitted.
Unad thand; nadath ulein.

Nad = thing, thand = true, gleina = to limit.
U used for negation, -ath encompassing "all" or "host"
Galadivren
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on: October 30, 2013 02:18
Well, for clarity (and pronunciation's sake), make sure it's ú not u.

There's a verb 'to allow, to permit', daf-, so...

nadath dhammen = all things are permitted

[Edited on 10/30/2013 by Galadivren]
Arahir_Galudirithon
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on: November 06, 2013 02:53
Good Evening

Like many before me, I have read through the workbooks and done many of the tasks and translated where I can but for my own clarity, can someone confirm that a sentence of the form: (May the) shadows protect you or (may the) light protect you would be (respectively) Berio i thae le and Berio i galad le?

Post Script
Do excuse my incorrect name, I didn't have any grasp of Sindarin when I started!

[Edited on 11/06/2013 by Arahir_Galudirithon]
Galadivren
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on: November 07, 2013 03:55
Well there's several words for 'shadow', do you just want a generic 'shadow', or was it meant to be 'a shadow cast by something'?

Dae berio len/gin = Shadows protect you
Calad berio len/gin = Light protect you

Len/gin are the object pronouns, for clarification, le/gi are nominative 'you are'.

It's not attested, but I borrow Nai from Quenya to mean 'may it be', if you would like to put that in your sentences:
Nai i nae berio len/gin = May the shadows protect you
Nai i 'alad berio len/gin = May the light protect you
Arahir_Galudirithon
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on: November 07, 2013 01:28
I was working off of the example used frequently: Cuio i Pheriain annan. Where the 'may the' is replaced with the imperative verb. Still have much to learn
Galadivren
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on: November 08, 2013 03:52
Oh right, I see, "Live the hobbits for long"/"May the hobbits live long". I'll have a think about that.
Lastiel Rusc
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on: November 20, 2013 11:39
Ok, I'm trying to translate this into Sindarin, and I fear that I've already messed it up. "I can defeat you in a sword fight."

So far this is what I've came up with "Le geri o thûr megil maetha"

I'm not sure if I have the sentence order correct, or if I even used the preferred words.
'If they have a fault it is distrust of strangers. Though their magic was strong even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise.' ~ Flies and Spiders The Hobbit
Taug anin ú-daug.
Riniel_Tasardur
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on: November 20, 2013 02:57
I was wondering if anyone knows the translation for:

Tree of Life

Thank you!!
Galadivren
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on: November 22, 2013 08:42
Riniel_Tasardur said:I was wondering if anyone knows the translation for:

Tree of Life

Thank you!!


Orn cuil = Tree (of) life

or

Galadh cuil = (Large) tree of life (such as an oak, etc.)

[Edited on 11/22/2013 by Galadivren]
Galadivren
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on: November 22, 2013 08:49
Lastiel Rusc said:Ok, I'm trying to translate this into Sindarin, and I fear that I've already messed it up. "I can defeat you in a sword fight."

So far this is what I've came up with "Le geri o thûr megil maetha"

I'm not sure if I have the sentence order correct, or if I even used the preferred words.


Well... you can't do it directly word for word as there's no verb for 'to defeat'.

What about...

Sevithon tûr or len/gin mi dhagor adh vegil/grist

I will have mastery/victory over you in a battle with swords
Lastiel Rusc
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on: November 22, 2013 08:51
Sounds Perfect! Thank you! I only thought that using a word for 'defeat' would sound better than 'kill'. And my brain couldn't think of another word that could work. /sigh I need to work on making time to practice and studying Sindarin.
'If they have a fault it is distrust of strangers. Though their magic was strong even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise.' ~ Flies and Spiders The Hobbit
Taug anin ú-daug.
Riniel_Tasardur
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on: December 08, 2013 03:43
Galadivren said:
Riniel_Tasardur said:I was wondering if anyone knows the translation for:

Tree of Life

Thank you!!


Orn cuil = Tree (of) life

or

Galadh cuil = (Large) tree of life (such as an oak, etc.)

[Edited on 11/22/2013 by Galadivren]


Thank you
Adharhid
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on: December 09, 2013 11:09
Hey, I'm new to COE, and was curious about a translation. I fear going word by word in the dictionary as I am not well versed in Sindarin nor Quenya. The quote is "We are all children of the stars". Thanks!
Cillendor
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on: December 10, 2013 04:55
Me bân chîn in-elenath.
We all (are) children of-the-stars.
Adharhid
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on: December 11, 2013 04:58
Thanks Cillendor!
Adharhid
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on: December 13, 2013 11:25
Cillendor! I trust in your knowledge on the subject of the Elvish languages, but in cross referencing your translation of the quote I asked, a couple of the words don't match up. "Me ban chin" doesn't seem to translate over. If this is just a mistake on my part i completely understand, I just wanted this quote as a tattoo so I wanted to double check everything before i proceeded. Thanks again Cillendor!
hyperpiston
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on: December 18, 2013 01:08
Suilad, everyone!
I'm new to CoE, and very eager to learn Sindarin, but I was hoping to ask for translation help before I start a translation for a Christmas present!
For my husband, I'm making a velvet-lined wooden keepsake box for all his necklaces, coins, pins, special dice and other small items that he wants to keep. I'm woodburning a phoenix and Tengwar on it.
I narrowly avoided using Grelvish, because I really want to actually learn Sindarin, but I want to make sure I actually get it right before I burn it into the wood.

I have a vague understanding of how these fit together but the basic phrase I want to put with the phoenix is "My beloved, I will follow you to death and beyond" (which is one of the Grey Company's battle cries, but I thought it fit for a different reason altogether. Does that sound bizarre? I thought it was fitting for a phoenix, which is sort his emblem.)
I came up with Aphad//to follow, guruthos//shadow of death, athan//beyond and mell nin//my beloved. I'm not sure on order, conjugation or anything else yet since I haven't started lessons, but any help would be appreciated!

Le hannon!

EDIT:
Ah, my apologies, I also forgot to add that I did want to burn the cardinal directions on the sides of the box in Tengwar, for no other reason than I though it would be cool. When I use the dictionary here, I get Rhun//East, Forn//North, Harad//South, and Annun//West. I wanted to double check though, that those were correct, or at least that I was headed the right direction.
*badump-tsh*

[Edited on 12/18/2013 by hyperpiston]
Galadivren
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on: December 19, 2013 02:58
hyperpiston said:Suilad, everyone!
I'm new to CoE, and very eager to learn Sindarin, but I was hoping to ask for translation help before I start a translation for a Christmas present!
For my husband, I'm making a velvet-lined wooden keepsake box for all his necklaces, coins, pins, special dice and other small items that he wants to keep. I'm woodburning a phoenix and Tengwar on it.
I narrowly avoided using Grelvish, because I really want to actually learn Sindarin, but I want to make sure I actually get it right before I burn it into the wood.

I have a vague understanding of how these fit together but the basic phrase I want to put with the phoenix is "My beloved, I will follow you to death and beyond" (which is one of the Grey Company's battle cries, but I thought it fit for a different reason altogether. Does that sound bizarre? I thought it was fitting for a phoenix, which is sort his emblem.)
I came up with Aphad//to follow, guruthos//shadow of death, athan//beyond and mell nin//my beloved. I'm not sure on order, conjugation or anything else yet since I haven't started lessons, but any help would be appreciated!

Le hannon!

EDIT:
Ah, my apologies, I also forgot to add that I did want to burn the cardinal directions on the sides of the box in Tengwar, for no other reason than I though it would be cool. When I use the dictionary here, I get Rhun//East, Forn//North, Harad//South, and Annun//West. I wanted to double check though, that those were correct, or at least that I was headed the right direction.
*badump-tsh*

[Edited on 12/18/2013 by hyperpiston]


[Melethenin/Mellenin] gin aphadathon na 'urth a athan

Melethenin = My love
Mellenin = My dear (as you used Mell yourself I thought I'd give it as an option). Both of these use the suffix -enin as an endearment, instead of implying that you own him.
gin aphadathon = I will follow you
na = to
'urth = death
a = and
athan = beyond

Compass points
North = Forod is more usual
East = Amrûn
South = Harad
West = Annûn

[Edited on 12/19/2013 by Galadivren]
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