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Ardithenion
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on: June 08, 2013 10:06
Hi, I'm new to Sindarin myself, but my resources don't have anything for either of those words (although there is a word for strong as in strong in body). As for the phrase, I haven't delved that far yet so I could only give you individual words rather than the structured phrase you need. Maybe someone has better resources than me and can help you out with the words and we have enough people to get that phrase translated for you.

Speaking of, I'm curious if anyone could translate "For she hated all the world save for that which shared the fate of her people; the deepest grove became the sanctuary for all that needed her protection" for me.

Edit: the word I mentioned for strong (as in strong in body which would indicate strength) is Bell

[Edited on 06/08/2013 by Ardithenion]

[Edited on 06/08/2013 by Ardithenion]
Galadivren
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on: June 08, 2013 01:45
TreeofGondor said:Hi guys can you translate this words and this phrase for me?

Im a beginner on this language, but i really wanted to know the translations of this words, and phrase

"Strength, Honor, Sacrifice, Brotherhood"

"The darkness will not triumph" or "The darkness shall not triumph"

[Edited on 06/08/2013 by TreeofGondor]


(Bodily) Strength = Bellas

The other three words I'd have to do synonyms for.

I dhúath ú-natha gellui = The darkness wil not be triumphant
Galadivren
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on: June 08, 2013 02:26
Ardithenion said:Hi, I'm new to Sindarin myself, but my resources don't have anything for either of those words (although there is a word for strong as in strong in body). As for the phrase, I haven't delved that far yet so I could only give you individual words rather than the structured phrase you need. Maybe someone has better resources than me and can help you out with the words and we have enough people to get that phrase translated for you.

Speaking of, I'm curious if anyone could translate "For she hated all the world save for that which shared the fate of her people; the deepest grove became the sanctuary for all that needed her protection" for me.

Edit: the word I mentioned for strong (as in strong in body which would indicate strength) is Bell


An ú-hera pân i ardhon eng i hâf eithro i vanadh i 'waith dîn; i 'lad ro-nûr toll no i iaun an bân i aniranner i veriad dîn

For she disliked all the world save that which had also the fate of her people; the deepest forest came to be the santuary for all who desired her protection.
TreeofGondor
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on: June 08, 2013 03:27
Thank you Galadivren and Ardithenion
Cillendor
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on: June 10, 2013 02:44
Galadivren said:Well I would in my sentence, and I would if you're using the noun, but I reworded what you wrote.

I counter your idea by pointing out that the sentence 'There is no power greater' is really a clause, because... greater than what? Even if it's not explicitly stated (those who you're talking to know what you're talking about, etc [for some reason Voldemort comes to mind, lol]) it's still implicit that it is being compared against...something. So I don't know about that idea, I'll have a mull.
I do find the comparative with 'athan' unwieldy, I do agree, which is why I tend to use half the words (Eiliannien saf vainas athan Faineth, sennui i Eiliannien saf vainas athan i vainas Faineth). But still, it's a little unwieldy (and 'scusey lack of accents).
Far as the dual goes... my general thoughts are 'yuck' lol. I'd only use it if it was really intended to have been written in Doriath.

Unfinished tales are great! Adds so much more depth to several of the stories that are just hinted at in LoTR.


Here is the final result. I've been really busy lately and am behind (also why the Ainulindalë is still WIP).

Image

(Click for larger version.)

[Edited on 06/10/2013 by Cillendor]
Florien
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on: June 18, 2013 07:21
Hi all,

I am trying to learn Sindarin but not getting very far! Could anyone tell me if i wanted a LOTRs quote, put in to Elven & turned in to a tattoo - what would I do?

I want 'Not all those who wander are lost' do i write it in the Elven alphabet or does it lose meaning then? so confused! thanks x
Galadivren
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on: June 18, 2013 08:00
Heya, replied to your private message regarding the translation.

Re: Tengwar (the 'Elven alphabet'). Think of it like Arabic, it's just an unfamiliar (non Roman) alphabet, you don't lose any of the meaning from the words when it's put into Tengwar, it's just a method of displaying it.

I'll give you a personal example.
I have a small Tengwar tattoo, that says 'Why do I wait and sing under this fading light?'. It's written in the Sindarin language, and then those letters, or the sound of those letters, was changed into the Tengwar alphabet.

[Edited on 06/18/2013 by Galadivren]
majickx
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on: June 19, 2013 06:03


[Edited on 06/20/2013 by majickx]
lotrelessar94
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on: June 21, 2013 10:34
Here's 2 short phrases that I'm considering for a tattoo. I have so many short phrases like this that I like, but I want to see what they look/sound like in Sindarin as well as English:
"The shadow proves the sunshine," and "Every breath is a second chance."
No hurry, though, thanks guys
"Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisoned by the enemy, don’t we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we’re partisans of liberty, then it’s our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!"
Cillendor
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on: June 21, 2013 11:39
Here is a very shabby take on the first one. Note that the word "thambéd" was made up by me from the words "thand" (true) and "ped-" (to speak). So it means "true-speaks" or, I suppose, "proves".

I nae thambéd i aur/'lawar.

Given that the English assumes the meaning based on the word order but leaves out crucial words, I'll also add them in. Here is what I mean:

"The shadow proves [that] the sunshine [is/exists]."

I think (but am not sure) that Sindarin is more flexible than English, so that the phrase I wrote above could potentially be read as "the sun proves the shadow". Thus, here is a fuller version:

I nae thambéd i nad en-aur.
The shadow proves the being of the sun.

I want to wait for someone else to confirm this before writing it out in Tengwar.

[Edited on 06/21/2013 by Cillendor]
Galadivren
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on: June 21, 2013 02:53
Nad = something naul = gerund of na-

Instead of making a compound, what about 'anna thannas' = (it) gives truth?

Also in this instance we really want the word for shadow that means 'cast by something', which is morchant.
Cillendor
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on: June 22, 2013 03:16
Why isn't nad the gerund? I got that from Gateway to Sindarin, at any rate. But "something" could just as easily be "(a) being" in the sense of "human being". Is naul attested?

I did consider anna thannas or pêd thennas or something along those lines, but that didn't seem quite the same to me as proving something. Perhaps this would work better, though?

I nae anna/pêd thannas an i naul(/nad?) en-aur.

It's getting so wordy. :/
Galadivren
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on: June 22, 2013 03:25
p122 -
Naul - present participle, being
Nad - gerund, being, thing (but always used in the sense of 'something' when it comes to relative pronouns)

Lol. Yeah I didn't mean 'it's not the gerund' did I, it is. Sorry for the confusion there... -.- I meant 'I think it should be the present participle' and I wrote something else entirely...sigh.

Ooh! What about... 'to prove' in the sense of 'declare', and use tengia- = to reveal?
Lastiel Rusc
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on: June 22, 2013 10:25
Ok so I know the following is probably partially wrong, but....a friend asked me to translate 'your sword work is as ugly as your complexion' this is what I tried to translate it to... 'megil i deilithen lín ulthîr lín' (So it should be something like this 'your sword play is as ugly as your face') But...I'm not the best at translating things yet so I was hoping someone would be able to tell me if I am correct or wrong before I let him know.
'If they have a fault it is distrust of strangers. Though their magic was strong even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise.' ~ Flies and Spiders The Hobbit
Taug anin ú-daug.
Galadivren
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on: June 23, 2013 08:12
I'm not entirely sure I'd use the verb 'to play', as 'sword-play' doesn't mean 'playing with a sword' it means swordmanship, so I'd be tempted to use maetha- = to fight:
Cristvaethad/Maglavaethad/Megilwaethad = swordfighting

i [gristvaethad/vaglavaethad/vegilvaethad] [lîn/gîn] sui úvain sui i thîr [lîn/gîn]

or, use the pronoun suffixes, giving us:

[Cristvaethadelen/Cristvaethadegen/the other two options with -elen/-egen on the end] sui úvain sui [thîrelen/thîregen]

[Edited on 06/23/2013 by Galadivren]
Lastiel Rusc
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on: June 23, 2013 11:17
Ok, thank you. Obviously I need to practice a lot more.
'If they have a fault it is distrust of strangers. Though their magic was strong even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise.' ~ Flies and Spiders The Hobbit
Taug anin ú-daug.
Galadivren
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on: June 23, 2013 12:33
Keep doing little translations, eventually things just start to click that's what I found anyway. Some of my early ones are laughable if I look at them now!
Lastiel Rusc
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on: June 23, 2013 01:07
That's what I'm trying to do. LOL, at least I'm able to get some of the words correct even though some of the forms and suffixes are wrong. Thanks for the encouragement, soon I'll be posting here more often as I try to translate more.
'If they have a fault it is distrust of strangers. Though their magic was strong even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise.' ~ Flies and Spiders The Hobbit
Taug anin ú-daug.
Cillendor
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on: June 23, 2013 06:37
lotrelessar94 said:Here's 2 short phrases that I'm considering for a tattoo. I have so many short phrases like this that I like, but I want to see what they look/sound like in Sindarin as well as English:
"The shadow proves the sunshine," and "Every breath is a second chance."
No hurry, though, thanks guys


Okay, so for the first one, here is my updated attempt:

I nae tengia i naul en-aur.
The shadow declares the being of the sun.

I'm not sure how I feel about this, though, because naul is an adjective, isn't it? But you can't say "the being sun"; naul here really means "existence", or at least that's what I want it to mean. I'm not sure if it can. :/

@Galadivren, maybe it's just excitement over coming up with my own new word, but I really like thambed-. I'm logging it away for personal use later, anyway.
Lady Elarinya Cuilwen
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on: July 08, 2013 04:46
Hi.Can anyone help me to traslate : shadow chaser and light cleaver of the Lady Morningstar,its light is of the seven stars.

I want to name my sword but I cant get the right name.Here are its descriptions:Cleaver of shadows,bringer of light.Can anyone figure out its name for me?Thanks
Galadivren
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on: July 09, 2013 02:42
Shadow cleaver = Cristdae / Cristwath / Cristdúath
Light bringer = Caladoged / Caladthoged (Calad+toged, and as the second word starts with a 't' it can become either a 'd' or a 'th', so I put both options).

Do any of those help?
Lady Elarinya Cuilwen
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on: July 10, 2013 06:23
Ys thanks.Like the Hadhafang,it does have inscriptions on it.Can anyone help me translate :shadow chaser and light cleaver of the Lady Morningstar,its light is of the seven stars.
Lady Elarinya Cuilwen
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on: July 10, 2013 06:52
LOTR swords and cleavers have their names in one word.Mine have characteristics of shadow cleaver and light bringer.So,in one name,how would it be like?
Cillendor
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on: July 10, 2013 02:25
Lady Elarinya Cuilwen said:LOTR swords and cleavers have their names in one word.Mine have characteristics of shadow cleaver and light bringer.So,in one name,how would it be like?


I don't think you can really do that in one name. But it's not true that their names are all in one name, anyway. This page shows various LOTR swords and knives that have full-sentence descriptions. Perhaps you are referring to the words not having spaces between them, which is merely a stylistic way of writing the inscription. **Actually, I reread the inscriptions and do see spaces, they are just very small.**

You bring up Hadhafang specifically, but the inscription on it reads: "Aen estar Hadhafang i chathol hen, thand arod dan i thang an i arwen."

So for your inscription, "Shadow chaser and light cleaver of the Lady Morningstar, its light is of the seven stars," I'll try this:

Daeryn a Calachrist edh-Rîn Élor. I galad dîn in-Elin Odog.

daeryn = dae (shadow) + rŷn ("chaser", hound dog)
calachrist = calad (light) + crist (cleaver)
edh-rîn = en- (of the) + rîn (lady, queen)
élor = êl (star) + aur (morning)
i galad dîn = i (the) + calad (light) + tîn (its)
in-elin = en- (of the) + elin (stars)
odog = seven

Here are three possible etching styles you'll find. In the examples on the link I included above, you see both Sindarin Tengwar styles, as well as several Angerthas inscriptions. I don't know enough about the Angerthas to know which mode is used, so I'll just give it in Angerthas Daeron.

Image

(If the image stretches the screen, I apologize. I don't know how to scale it down without losing quality.)

[Edited on 07/10/2013 by Cillendor]

It comes to my attention that your name, Lady Elarinya, is probably a Quenya translation of Lady Morningstar. I don't know how well my version translates to that because I just combined the words "star" and "morning", so it may not be the best rendition of that.

[Edited on 07/10/2013 by Cillendor]
JuliSnyderArt
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on: July 11, 2013 05:23
Hey everyone! I'm new to the forum and was referred to you guys by a Tolkien scholar who said someone here may be able to help me with a Sindarin translation. It's going on a ring I bought so it's crucial the translation is as accurate as possible! The phrase is 'become who you were born to be'. I tried to figure it out myself but would rather not take a chance and get it wrong! Can someone with lots of translation experience please assist me? I would be extremely grateful!
Juli Snyder
Galadivren
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on: July 12, 2013 04:29
Tolo no i gi onnen no = Come to be who you are born to be

I would give you the past tense 'you were' but the verb 'to be' is reconstructed as it is, and it doesn't include provision for second person forms. Would probably be nonol or nonog though.
JuliSnyderArt
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on: July 13, 2013 02:33
Galadivren: I cannot thank you enough!!! From the bottom of my heart ♡
Juli Snyder
JuliSnyderArt
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on: July 13, 2013 04:32
Not to be a pain, but would you possibly be able to give me a language breakdown/meaning for each word? I've been researching on different sites; getting an accurate translation can be so difficult! Have you been translating for a while from elvish to English? Again, you are SO generous and kind to help me out with this! I hope you have a fantastic day!
Juli Snyder
Galadivren
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on: July 14, 2013 03:28
Yes of course, sorry, I usually do:
Tol- = to come Tolo - imperative form of the verb 'come!'
no = be, to be from the verb na-
i = relative pronoun, 'who/that/which'
gi = you are, nominative pronoun, modified by the preceding 'i' (ci -> gi)
onnen = born, part of the verb onna-

And yes, I have been studying Sindarin for some years now
Naruvir
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on: July 15, 2013 04:43
JuliSnyderArt, you're not being a pain! On the contrary, every time we provide a translation we must be able to explain how we were thinking, especially if the phrase is going to be engraved on a ring!

I'm not quite sure I agree with the translation Galadivren proposes. This is why:
- Tol- means quite literally "come", like seen in tôl (he comes) or Tôl acharn (vengeance comes). There is no evidence that suggests that it can be used like become.

- No is only seen in the context of the imperative. While it's likely derived from NA- (like the Quenya ná), there is no way to be sure how it would expand to Sindarin; would it be **na (and thus conflict with na [with, characterized by, towards]?), **naw or **no?

If you really want to feel that this is (Neo-)Sindarin, I think we must do is to look at what you are trying to say, and determine if there is a way to convey the same sense, but with different albeit attested words.

[Edited on 07/15/2013 by Naruvir]
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Cillendor
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on: July 15, 2013 11:06
What about this?

Gwisto ech na nad i ben i onneg/onnel an nad. / Change yourself to being the one who you were born for being.

gwisto = gwista- (to change, from An Unexpected Journey) + -o (imperative ending)
ech = yourself
na = to/toward, here in reference to a future state
nad = na- (to be) + -d (gerund ending)
i ben = i (the) + pen (someone)
i (that/who)
onneg/onnel = onna- (to beget) + -g (2nd person informal ending) OR -l (2nd person formal ending)
an = to/for
nad = being

This is my stab at it. What do you think?

[Edited on 07/16/2013 by Cillendor]
Naruvir
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on: July 16, 2013 01:27
Cillendor said:
What about this?
Gwisto ech na nad i ben i onneg/onnel an nad. / Change yourself to being the one who you were born for being.

Yes, I quite like where you are going with this. There are a few pointers I'd like to give though:

gwisto = gwista- (to change, from An Unexpected Journey) + -o (imperative ending)

I do not think the person, who will wear this ring, needs to change, but rather continue being the person he is. I feel I am nitpicking, but this might be an important distinction.

nad = na- (to be) + -d (gerund ending)

Yes, but it can also be naw + -d since NĀ like narwain.

onneg/onnel = onna- (to beget) + -g (2nd person informal ending) OR -l (2nd person formal ending)

I believe onna- means begetting, like making children. That's why we have the form onnen "born" < *onna-nnen "begotten".

me corrections, I believe this to be a much closer to the intended sense. I'll be back with (possibly) more comments!
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Naruvir
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on: July 16, 2013 01:28
Cillendor said:
What about this?
Gwisto ech na nad i ben i onneg/onnel an nad. / Change yourself to being the one who you were born for being.

Yes, I quite like where you are going with this. There are a few pointers I'd like to give though:

gwisto = gwista- (to change, from An Unexpected Journey) + -o (imperative ending)

I do not think the person, who will wear this ring, needs to change, but rather continue being the person he is. I feel I am nitpicking, but this might be an important distinction.

nad = na- (to be) + -d (gerund ending)

Yes, but it can also be *naw + -d (like narwain) since NĀ.

onneg/onnel = onna- (to beget) + -g (2nd person informal ending) OR -l (2nd person formal ending)

I believe onna- means begetting, like making children. That's why we have the form onnen "born" < *onna-nnen "begotten".

With these corrections, I believe this to be a much closer to the intended sense. I need to run to a meeting, but I'll be back with (possibly) more comments!

[Edited on 07/16/2013 by Naruvir]
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Lady Elarinya Cuilwen
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on: July 16, 2013 05:13
"My eyes see a traitor who lurks now within our land.He is poisoned by the enemy.But fear not.This the Valar give you that shall thrush its blade into the black shadows and bring forth light".Can anyone translate it?It is one of my character's dialogue.Thanks!
JuliSnyderArt
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on: July 17, 2013 08:58
WOW! You are geniuses! HUGE thanks for all your help! You guys really know your stuff Thank you SO much for your extensive thoughtfulness and consideration; I am really impressed by your knowledge and extremely grateful for your generosity

I will post a picture when I get the ring!
Much love!
Juli Snyder
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