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Cillendor
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on: May 01, 2013 11:12
Galadivren, I came up with úlasweg for "not joyous".

And for Lotrelessar's translation, I had I naid athan 'wen nar athan i naid i lestam adel 'wen.
I'd be interested in seeing yours.
Galadivren
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on: May 01, 2013 01:02
Glassweg is just an alternative to my reconstructed Gellweg (Gell, Glass, identical meanings after all), and it's joyful rather than joyous (+weg denotes 'ful'), so I gave them the attested word first as it does actually mean joyous! Which one is more appropriate really depends on whether the original sentence refers to a person or a thing...and that we do not know.

In answer to the other one:
There are far better things ahead than any we leave behind.

Naid [roveleg/rovaer] ennas athan i naid awartham
"There are greater/better things beyond the things we abandon."



[Edited on 05/01/2013 by Galadivren]

[Edited on 05/01/2013 by Galadivren]
Cillendor
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on: May 02, 2013 08:59
Oo, I like your translation better. Dangit.
Moltac123
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Post Oath of the Night's Watch
on: May 08, 2013 06:02
Hello all! I was looking for some help translating the Oath of the Night's Watch to Sindarin! This oath is from the popular book series A Game of Thrones: A Song of Ice and Fire. The oath goes as follows:
Night gathers, and now my watch begins.
It shall not end until my death.
I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children.
I shall wear no crowns and win no glory.
I shall live and die at my post.
I am the sword in the darkness.
I am the watcher on the walls.
I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men.
I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.

I am currently on the "win no glory" line. I could not find the sindarin words for "win" or "wear". Here is what I have so far:

Fuin hesta, a si nîn tirith heria(<-- haven't mutated yet.)
Avaha methen am an nîn gûr.
Mabathon úbess gar údor, adanadar úhîn.
Thelim (wear?) úrî a (win?) úaglar.

Thanks ahead of time to anyone who tries to help!

EDIT: (Also just to clarify, I would like help translating the entire thing, not just win and wear!)

[Edited on 05/08/2013 by Moltac123]
-Moltac123 (TheEndSociety)
CP2001
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on: May 08, 2013 10:52
Hello all,

I was hoping that someone could help me write a descriptive crossword-type clue for the word "cram" in Sindarin. For example, perhaps a translation of the sentence "Study hard and fast just before a test" or "Completely fill to the point of overflowing" or something similar in length to either of these.

Very much appreciated

[Edited on 05/08/2013 by CP2001]
Galadivren
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Post Oath of the Night's Watch
on: May 08, 2013 01:47
Moltac123 said:Hello all! I was looking for some help translating the Oath of the Night's Watch to Sindarin!


Night gathers, and now my watch begins.
Fuin tôl, a thî heria i dirith nîn

It shall not end until my death.
Ava daro na i lû i 'urth nîn

I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children.
ú-hevithon hervess, ú-gerithon dŷr, ú-onnathon hîn

I shall wear no crowns and win no glory.
ú-'erithon rî, egor garo claur

I shall live and die at my post.
Cuiathon a firithon na i dirith nîn

I am the sword in the darkness.
Ni i vagol min môr

I am the watcher on the walls.
Ni i dirn bo i raim

I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the
Ni i naur i dhosta dan i ring, i galad i dôg i vinuial, i rom i echuia

sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men.
i lestyr, i thand i 'artha in erdhyn edain

I pledge my life and honour to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.
Gweston i guil nîn na i Dirith e-Môr, an i fuin hen, a bân fuin telithar


[Edited on 05/08/2013 by Galadivren]

[Edited on 05/09/2013 by Galadivren]
Galadivren
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on: May 08, 2013 01:51
CP2001 said:Hello all,

I was hoping that someone could help me write a descriptive crossword-type clue for the word "cram" in Sindarin. For example, perhaps a translation of the sentence "Study hard and fast just before a test" or "Completely fill to the point of overflowing" or something similar in length to either of these.

Very much appreciated

[Edited on 05/08/2013 by CP2001]


What about...

Panno na athan bant = Fill to beyond full
CP2001
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on: May 08, 2013 06:21
Thank you so much for rapid reply Galadivren. I hope you don't mind, but I have sent a private message with a few further queries.
Moltac123
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on: May 09, 2013 06:04
Thank you so much galadviran you are amazing!

[Edited on 05/09/2013 by Moltac123]
-Moltac123 (TheEndSociety)
Cillendor
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on: May 30, 2013 02:28
I'm trying to translate a few lines from Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth, and I'd like some critiquing if you would. I'm doing this part-blind, as in without mutation guides, to test my memory. First English, then Sindarin.

Andreth: They say that the One will himself enter into Arda, and heal Men and all the Marring from the beginning to the end.
Finrod: Yet, Andreth, I speak with humility: I cannot conceive how else this healing will be done, as Eru will not allow that Melkor should change the world to his own will and should have the victory in the end. Yet no greater power lives beyond Melkor except Eru only. If Eru will keep Arda and will not give it to Melkor, He must come to conquer him.

Andreth: Pedir i Eru e minnatha mina Arda a nestatha in Edain a bân i chastad o cheriad na vethed.
Finrod: Dan, Andreth, pedin adh úvladweg: ú-chenion manen i nestas hen natha carel, sui Eru ú-dhevitha i Belegurth gwista aen Arda na i innas dîn a sâv aen i dûr ned i vethed. Dan ú-guia valan ro-dhaer athan Belegurth eng Eru ero. Pe Eru hebitha Arda a de ú-annatha an Belegurth, te boe minnatha an orthored den.

Note: I paraphrased the section from the book. Also, this has been done before, but I couldn't back-translate all of it to know for sure if it was the specific part I wanted, so I tried it myself. It helps having An Unexpected Journey out because one word in here was coined by Salo for that movie.
Galadivren
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on: May 30, 2013 09:49
What about... (it's suggestion time )

Instead of what looks a bit (to my eyes, as a caveat) clunky - Pedin adh úvladweg "I speak with 'not pride'" what about a more simple Pedin pen-vladweg = "I speak prideless"?

Nestas - nestad? Guessing that's just a slip?

Found it interesting you're using 'gwista' instead of 'presta'.
I'd be tempted to use Gar- instead of Saf- for 'have the victory', though that's definitely just a personal choice quibble, as one's 'he will possess the victory' and one's 'he will hold the victory', subtle shades of meaning there.

I got a bit lost at the 'yet no greater power' part, it looks like cuia- ?

Edit - should have said this first, sorry - it's very readable, I skimmed straight through until I got to the part above.

[Edited on 05/30/2013 by Galadivren]
Cillendor
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on: May 30, 2013 11:08
Thanks!

Yeah you're right on pride. I keep forgetting those other prefixes.

No nestas wasn't a slip, but it might not be right. On realelvish.net (which is, annoyingly, down for the time being), she said that the -s ending on verbs turns them into nouns. I can't give an example off-hand, but I thought that might be right. But now that I'm thinking about it again with a fresh mind, "ending" is what I'm going for, so it probably should be nestad.

I used gwista- because presta- is said to mean "to affect", while gwista- is said to specifically mean "to change (something)". I know the difference is slight, but affecting something seems less intentional than changing it.

Yeah, I bounced back and forth on those two. I took "hold" to be more the physical act of holding, whereas possessing was more figurative in just having claim to it as one's own.

That sentence really threw me for a loop. But also I was doing this at 3am, so maybe a fresh brain would do it differently. Here's the breakdown:

EDIT: I can't paste from Word for some reason! :O
Dan ú-guia valan ro-dhaer athan Belegurth eng Eru ero.
But not-lives a power greater beyond Melkor except Eru alone.

I can't find a good word for "to exist" (I need this one a lot, actually), and I didn't want to borrow from Quenya again, since I'm not sure if I'd be reconstructing it right. Also I considered just using the adverb ennas with an implied being verb (or even a na- construction), but ennas seems to refer to a physical location. Can all of Eä be considered one physical location? So I went with "to live" instead.

Is ardhon merely the Sindarin take on Arda, or should Arda be considered a loan word in Sindarin?

[Edited on 05/30/2013 by Cillendor]
Galadivren
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on: May 30, 2013 02:56
Er... have you mistaken the abstract suffix there? That's a wee bit different!
Noun off a verb should just be the gerund form.

When you're using ú attached to a verb like that, it negates it as in 'it does not live'. I'd be tempted do it as:

Dan ennas ú valan roveleg/rodhaer cuiad athan Belegurth eng Eru erui.

I used to think 'ennas' should be at the end of a clause, but if you look at where it's used in the King's Letter I don't think that's true, it's just an adverb, not a dative that people seem to often treat it as.

Using the superlative bothers me though as that says 'Yet there is no power greatest beyond...' really we want a comparative clause 'Yet there is no power that is great beyond the power of...etc.' but that's me being pedantic and wanting to keep the Sindarin as close to the English as possible.

Arda - yeah, 'The Realm', and Ardhon = the great realm, the world. I just used 'Arda' as a loanword in my Ainulindale as it made it easier to translate.

To exist...I'd use 'to live', given that the verb 'to exist' is ëa- in Quenya and is an alternative shade of meaning to na- which after all, is 'to exist', as it is 'to be'. Given all of the meanings behind ëa, 'the world that is' etc. I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole in a reconstructive sense!

[Edited on 05/30/2013 by Galadivren]
Cillendor
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on: May 30, 2013 10:30
So… you would use cuiad instead of cuia?

I am not very comfortable with the comparative because it just seems so wordy. The superlative bothered me for a while too, until I realized that I'm not using Doriathrin Sindarin. What I mean by that is, modern Sindarin doesn't use dual tenses very often, if ever. English doesn't either, but it distinguishes between two and three+ things in many other ways. This seems more like Doriathrin Sindarin than modern.

Consider the phrase in English. "There is no power greater/more great." The -er/more indicates that you are comparing two and only two things. But if you have three, four, fifty, or more, you switch to -est/most. So my thinking is that if comparing three+ things falls under one category of superlatives, why not include two things in that? I really do think it is our English sensibilities that insist that two things falls into a different category than three+ things. So taking that back to Sindarin, if all other dual indicators were only a part of Doriathrin Sindarin, perhaps the dual comparative fell out of use for a general plural comparative too.

I wasn't sure about Arda/Ardhon because I've never seen Ardhon used in that way before. I keep thinking Calenardhon because I just read about Eorl and Cirion in Unfinished Tales and thinking I'd really love to live there. ^_^

[Edited on 05/31/2013 by Cillendor]
Galadivren
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on: May 31, 2013 03:01
Well I would in my sentence, and I would if you're using the noun, but I reworded what you wrote.

I counter your idea by pointing out that the sentence 'There is no power greater' is really a clause, because... greater than what? Even if it's not explicitly stated (those who you're talking to know what you're talking about, etc [for some reason Voldemort comes to mind, lol]) it's still implicit that it is being compared against...something. So I don't know about that idea, I'll have a mull.
I do find the comparative with 'athan' unwieldy, I do agree, which is why I tend to use half the words (Eiliannien saf vainas athan Faineth, sennui i Eiliannien saf vainas athan i vainas Faineth). But still, it's a little unwieldy (and 'scusey lack of accents).
Far as the dual goes... my general thoughts are 'yuck' lol. I'd only use it if it was really intended to have been written in Doriath.

Unfinished tales are great! Adds so much more depth to several of the stories that are just hinted at in LoTR.
rpelchar
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on: June 02, 2013 10:37
Hello friends, this is my first post as and im going to request an english to sindarin translation from you. I'm graduating from high school soon and i want a nice farewell greeting. something simple, that i can write on several yearbooks, maybe something like "may you have good luck" or even just "good luck" thanks for the help
pointy ears and shapely rears
Lastiel Rusc
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on: June 03, 2013 12:05
Ok...So I'm getting better at Sindarin (I think and hope.), but I want to double check something that I quickly translated tonight. I work near a stop sign and half of the people just drive on by with out slowing or stopping, so I've gotten in the habit of saying "Thanks for stopping." Then I got the idea to translate it into Sindarin. I know that I probably have the words in the wrong positions...But here's what I came up with. "Derich an le hannon."
'If they have a fault it is distrust of strangers. Though their magic was strong even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise.' ~ Flies and Spiders The Hobbit
Taug anin ú-daug.
Galadivren
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on: June 04, 2013 12:47
rpelchar said:Hello friends, this is my first post as and im going to request an english to sindarin translation from you. I'm graduating from high school soon and i want a nice farewell greeting. something simple, that i can write on several yearbooks, maybe something like "may you have good luck" or even just "good luck" thanks for the help


What about...

Novaer = Farewell
Savo gell/glass = Have joy
Savo manadh = Have fortune
Galadivren
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on: June 04, 2013 12:51
Lastiel Rusc said:Ok...So I'm getting better at Sindarin (I think and hope.), but I want to double check something that I quickly translated tonight. I work near a stop sign and half of the people just drive on by with out slowing or stopping, so I've gotten in the habit of saying "Thanks for stopping." Then I got the idea to translate it into Sindarin. I know that I probably have the words in the wrong positions...But here's what I came up with. "Derich an le hannon."


Take 2, forum threw a wobbly on me and lost the post... -.-

[Len/gin] hannon an [dharthad/dhared]

"Thank you for remaining"

You want the gerund form of the verb for this sentence, which is either dared or darthad (depending on which verb you want to use!), which is lenited by the word 'an' before it.
Cillendor
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on: June 04, 2013 01:33
Galadivren said:Well I would in my sentence, and I would if you're using the noun, but I reworded what you wrote.

I counter your idea by pointing out that the sentence 'There is no power greater' is really a clause, because... greater than what? Even if it's not explicitly stated (those who you're talking to know what you're talking about, etc [for some reason Voldemort comes to mind, lol]) it's still implicit that it is being compared against...something. So I don't know about that idea, I'll have a mull.
I do find the comparative with 'athan' unwieldy, I do agree, which is why I tend to use half the words (Eiliannien saf vainas athan Faineth, sennui i Eiliannien saf vainas athan i vainas Faineth). But still, it's a little unwieldy (and 'scusey lack of accents).
Far as the dual goes... my general thoughts are 'yuck' lol. I'd only use it if it was really intended to have been written in Doriath.

Unfinished tales are great! Adds so much more depth to several of the stories that are just hinted at in LoTR.


So then, would you recommend something like this?

Dan ennas û valan athan Belegurth eng Eru ero.
or
Dan û valan guia ennas athan Belegurth eng Eru ero.
Lastiel Rusc
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on: June 04, 2013 01:36
Thanks Galadivern! I think when I was trying to write it down the other day I put the words in a similar manner as you did (thank you for stopping) But I wasn't sure so I switched it.
'If they have a fault it is distrust of strangers. Though their magic was strong even in those days they were wary. They differed from the High Elves of the West, and were more dangerous and less wise.' ~ Flies and Spiders The Hobbit
Taug anin ú-daug.
Ardithenion
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on: June 04, 2013 01:39
I'm new to working with Sindarin in a translation-sense. I looked into the Arwen-Undomeil web site for names, and they had one listed for Tyra (Meaning God of battle which would be the American meaning according to sheknows.com) and they had Valauthiel for the Elvish equivalent.

Now I have Ambar-Aldron.com's English-Sindarin dictionary and No Val words to form Valauthiel, however auth is Battle. Now this could be from compound mutations (which I'm just looking into) that I may not know about, but if I were to use the Sindarin dictionary I do have and use the two root words of God (Eru) and Battle (Auth as previously mentioned) then something along the lines of Eruauth or Erauth? the iel I know is a "daughter of" suffix

So from what I can surmise (with my limited compound mutation knowledge) Erauthiel or Eruauthiel would be the appropriate name for the translation. If not and it is Valautheil, please say so. Also as I'm horrible at pronouncing anything outside of English maybe a simple syllable guide to go with the appropriate translation?
Ardithenion
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on: June 04, 2013 01:41
Also, and I'm sorry for the double-post, if this is in the wrong place, please move it if possible.
Galadivren
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on: June 04, 2013 03:28
Ardithenion said:I'm new to working with Sindarin in a translation-sense. I looked into the Arwen-Undomeil web site for names, and they had one listed for Tyra (Meaning God of battle which would be the American meaning according to sheknows.com) and they had Valauthiel for the Elvish equivalent.

Now I have Ambar-Aldron.com's English-Sindarin dictionary and No Val words to form Valauthiel, however auth is Battle. Now this could be from compound mutations (which I'm just looking into) that I may not know about, but if I were to use the Sindarin dictionary I do have and use the two root words of God (Eru) and Battle (Auth as previously mentioned) then something along the lines of Eruauth or Erauth? the iel I know is a "daughter of" suffix

So from what I can surmise (with my limited compound mutation knowledge) Erauthiel or Eruauthiel would be the appropriate name for the translation. If not and it is Valautheil, please say so. Also as I'm horrible at pronouncing anything outside of English maybe a simple syllable guide to go with the appropriate translation?


A lot of the names on arwen-undomiel as I believe it admits, are made up, they took some words from Sindarin, some from Quenya, added endings onto them and then 'made them prettier'.

There are no words that begin with a 'v' in Sindarin, incidentally.

If you're wanting a female name, Eruauthiel looks fine
There are other female suffixes that are just 'female' not 'daughter of' or 'mother of' etc:

Eruauthien
Eruauthil
Eruauthel
Ardithenion
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on: June 04, 2013 07:54
I was aware of the fact on the site, so that is why I asked about it. Apparently my choice of dictionary was wrong? I have Vi and Vin (in and our respectively) in it. Now, I don't know how reputable or respectively the Ambar-Aldaron.com Sindarin dictionary is, but obviously it's inaccurate. Is there any that are more accurate?
Cillendor
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on: June 04, 2013 08:20
About the name, the English word "god" is used both in a generic sense and as a name. This is also true of Hebrew, where "el" and its derivatives mean "god, power" and can be used for God, people, and angels depending on the context.

In Sindarin, the generic word for god is Balan pl. Belain (the Quenya word is Vala pl. Valar). The name Tolkien used for God is Eru, but that literally means "the One" and is closer to the Hebrew YHWH or English Jehovah/"the LORD".

So if you're referencing a deity in a pantheon, the proper word would be Vala, not Eru, in which case "Valauthiel" would be correct.

(If the Bible were ever translated into Sindarin or Quenya, it would be most accurate to render "God" as "Balan" or "Vala" respectively, even though Tolkien never did this. "Eru" would then be used for "the LORD"/"Jehovah", which is the English rendering of YHWH.)

EDIT: Valauthiel would not be correct because "Vala" is Quenya, not Sindarin. It would be something like Balanauthiel, which is admittedly quite tedious. If you want a purely Quenya name, you could go with Ohtavalië (war + goddess). For pronunciation, it's /ɔx.ta.ˈva.lɪ.ɛ/.

Ardithenion said:I was aware of the fact on the site, so that is why I asked about it. Apparently my choice of dictionary was wrong? I have Vi and Vin (in and our respectively) in it. Now, I don't know how reputable or respectively the Ambar-Aldaron.com Sindarin dictionary is, but obviously it's inaccurate. Is there any that are more accurate?


Aye, there are two excellent dictionaries ought there. Elfdict.com is a very reliable dictionary, especially for finding words in multiple languages if you're trying to translate between them. And then the downloadable dictionary on sindarinlessons.weebly.com is very thorough and often updated with more information. They are both indispensable.

[Edited on 06/05/2013 by Cillendor]
Ardithenion
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on: June 04, 2013 09:40
Thank you Cillendor. I'll look into both. As for the name, it's supposed to be pure Sindarin which is why I asked for the clarification of "Val" as I found "Auth" but not "Val" in the Sindarin dictionary I already have which itself has been proven to be inaccurate due to "Vi" and "Vin". Thank you for the alternatives for the dictionary, however. They should help me get on the proper track.

Note: I did notice the downloadable one does contain reconstructions (unavoidable with an incomplete language like Sindarin). Are these reconstructions heavy or just to the right extent?

[Edited on 06/05/2013 by Ardithenion]
Cillendor
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on: June 05, 2013 03:11
Well my guess with the word "Val", it's actually supposed to be "Vala", but rather than saying "Valaauthiel", the words "vala" and "auth" are combined. A purely Sindarin word would be "Balanauthiel", which I guess isn't too unwieldy. /ba.la.ˈnau.θi.eļ/

I can't speak for every reconstruction. Galadivren would be better able to answer your question. However if I'm correct, all reconstructions are either from Quenya or another language that Tolkien created, and whoever coined the word just adapted another Tolkien word into Sindarin.
Galadivren
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on: June 05, 2013 03:59
Regarding 'vi' and 'vin' it's not inaccurate...per se... as some people believe there is no unlenited form 'mi' and 'min' as it never appears in an unlenited form in any attested text.

However... given that no other word starts with the 'v' f sound (which is found everywhere BUT the beginning of a word) it's highly probable that they do come from 'mi' and 'min' respectively.

Regarding reconstructions:
Some of them are just compounds, so two already existing words put together (using Tolkien's rules for doing so), or a word and a suffix (both attested, again using Tolkien's rules).
Then we have 'Exilic' reconstructions, which is where a Quenya word has been altered into Sindarin using Tolkien's own rules for consonant/vowel development through the languages.
The slightly shakier ones are the ones that come from Goldogrin and Qenya, where they come from an attested ROOT with a suffix, and we have to use supposition that that is how that word would have ended up in Sindarin. (In my dictionary those are very clearly marked though).

Balanauthiel looks fine as a name to me, heck you get longer ones than that.
Galadivren
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on: June 05, 2013 04:05
Cillendor said:

So then, would you recommend something like this?

Dan ennas û valan athan Belegurth eng Eru ero.
or
Dan û valan guia ennas athan Belegurth eng Eru ero.


Had to check back what the original sentence was...

"Yet no greater power lives beyond Melkor except Eru only"

Second one then, otherwise where's the verb 'to live'?
Cillendor
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on: June 06, 2013 12:19
Well in the first, I was assuming an implied "naw/no", but the second one does work well so I'll go with that.

Thanks!
Tatomen
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on: June 06, 2013 05:00
Hey guys, can you help me to translate this phrase to Sindarin Please?

We Dunedain will fight to the Death
Cillendor
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on: June 06, 2013 11:14
I answered in the other thread. But you don't need to post this twice. People check these forums pretty much daily and won't miss your question. This is the best place to ask a question like that, but I saw your other post first and thus answered there.
Tatomen
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on: June 07, 2013 01:21
ok, i will do that
TreeofGondor
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on: June 08, 2013 09:42
Hi guys can you translate this words and this phrase for me?

Im a beginner on this language, but i really wanted to know the translations of this words, and phrase

"Strength, Honor, Sacrifice, Brotherhood"

"The darkness will not triumph" or "The darkness shall not triumph"

[Edited on 06/08/2013 by TreeofGondor]
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