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Cenerue
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Post Poetry
on: March 25, 2003 11:19
Can we start a thread for Quenya Poetry? I'd love to post a poem of mine and have you guys critique it!
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 25, 2003 11:07
By all means! Post it, please! I´m preparing something too
Meldon
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 26, 2003 01:58
Yay!!
Quenya poetry!! Sounds like fun, now I've got no excuse for not doing any. This forum is working out so well!! Everyone is so enthusiastic!! Keep at it everyone!!

Namárië meldonyar
Cenerue
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 26, 2003 07:59
Okay, here goes! It's kinda long so bear with me:

Luttanye
Calima earanna
I néni quilde nar vírin
Ear hepe hroanya ve lauca, nenda caima

Halar ar alte ciryar auta (ar cé earweni)
Nan inye eressë
Eressë ëar-celumessen

Or nye, vilyasse vilin maiwi yala:
Lamma yúyo lerina ar vanima
Ananta nútanye undu, lencave, oar ho fanyarë,
Varna

Lencave inye unduláve yo i lauca néni.
Mi quilde, mi sere nútanye.
Malda núra ar malda núra lelyan undu
Minna i laiquaninwa mita ëaro.

Mí huivie, intyan cenin earwen.
Cenin finderya, anda ar carne hwinyala ter néni.
Hroarya linta mirilya telpeva mí laiquie.

I malda núra lelyan, I malda lauca inye.
I ear ná néca. Hendinya pahta mi ma ve fume.
Inye varna mí lauca mitya calima aireo olóre.

English translation: (what it’s supposed to say)

I float
Upon a bright sea
The quiet waters are transparent glass
The sea holds my body like a warm, watery bed.

Small fish and great ships pass by (and maybe mermaids)
But I am alone.
Alone in the flowing sea.

Over me in the breezy air seagulls call:
A sound both free and beautiful
And yet I sink down, slowly, away from the upper airs,
Safe.

Slowly I am covered with the warm waters
In quiet, in peace I sink.
Deeper and deeper (literally more deep and more deep)I travel down
Into the blue-green interior of the ocean.

In the murkiness I think I see a mermaid.
I see her hair, long and red swirling through the waters.
Her body a swift glitter of silver in the greenness.

The deeper I travel, the warmer I become.
The sea is dim to see, my eyes close in something like sleep
I am safe in the warm interior of a bright ocean dream.

Hantale ar Namárie
Cenerue
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 26, 2003 09:35
Wow, Cenerue! I think I just changed my mind on becoming a poet. I´ll go in for literary criticism instead, at least for now
Cenerue
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 26, 2003 12:47
Oh, Malinorne! I'm sure you're poetry is great! I'd love to see one, but please, tell me what you think of the translation, how many mistakes did I make this time?

Hantale an vanimar quettalyar (Thanks for your beautiful words!)
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 27, 2003 05:42
I really like this poem! It´s so beautiful! Two words are new to me (my only source so far being the dictionaries from Ardalambion), so please let me know where these come from:
Hep- (hold)
Cé (maybe)

Here are some comments and suggestions (please bear in mind that I´m no expert ):
A general comment: It would probably be best either to be consistent with using the diaresis (ë) or not use it at all.

I néni quilde nar vírin
Quilde needs to be in the plural (quildi) to agree in number with néni.

Halar ar alte ciryar auta (ar cé earweni)
The verb needs the plural ending -r since you have a plural subject.

Or nye, vilyasse vilin maiwi yala:
The verb needs the plural ending -r since you have a plural subject.

Ananta nútanye undu, lencave, oar ho fanyarë,
It might be more elegant to express “from” by the ablative case: fanyarello. The dictionary suggests that “núta-“ can only be used about the sun and the moon… but I´d like to think we can be allowed a little artistic freedom

Lencave inye unduláve yo i lauca néni.
I´d probably use “ni” – I don’t see any reason for the emphatic “inyë” here. Perhaps it would be more typical to express “with the warm waters” by the instrumental case: i lauca néninen

Minna i laiquaninwa mita ëaro.
Is mita a noun meaning “interior”? I only found an adjective, mitya. If “mita” is a noun it might be better to express “into” by simply adding the allative ending to that word and omitting “minna”. (If it´s an adjective you might just drop it - you could use ëarenna instead.)

Mí huivie, intyan cenin earwen.
I think Quenya usually prefers cases to prepositions, so I´d probably omit “mí” and use Huiviessë instead.

Hroarya linta mirilya telpeva mí laiquie.
”Mirilya-” (to glitter) seems to be a verb. Perhaps it would be possible to use “nalta” (a glittering reflection) instead, or maybe “rilya” (a glittering). And again, maybe the locative case instead of the preposition.

I malda núra lelyan, I malda lauca inye.
It might be better to use the less emphatic pronoun ”ni”. Or perhaps “nán” (I am).

I ear ná néca. Hendinya pahta mi ma ve fume.
You might want the dual form ”hendinyat” for the two eyes of one person. “Pahta” seems to be an adjective – so you might want to change the English translation to “my eyes are closed”. You could slip in a copula (nar) in the Quenya if you like.

I hope some of this was useful
Cenerue
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 27, 2003 11:43
Hantale Malinorne for your excellent suggestions! I will look over them and repost my corrected poem. I'm so glad you like it! ce, and hep I got from the Book of Missed Words from the Fellowship of the Wordsmiths website.

Hantale ata!
Meldon
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 28, 2003 04:41
Well done Cenerue, this is a wonderful poem!!
Malinornë found most of the things that I was going to say, but here's a few more:

Eressë ëar-celumessen
Celumë is a noun, because you are describing the state of the sea, you need either an adjective or a participle. I would use úlëa, which still means flowing, but it's an adjective. Also, it appears that you have used the plural locative case ending -ssen, I dont think it needs to be plural for any reason, instead use -ssë the singular form. So the sentence would be like this
Eressë ëar úlëassë
(Just bear in mind that the word order where the adjective follows its noun is poetic, the normal word order is adjective then a noun.)

Or nye, vilyasse vilin maiwi yala:
The verb needs the plural ending -r since you have a plural subject
Yup!! and the pronoun also needs fixing. **nyë can't stand by itself as a pronoun, it can only be added to verbs. I think it may just be a typo, and you missed the 'i' at the start, inyë. But it doesn't need to be emphatic here, I would say
Or ni, vilyassë vilin maiwi yalar.

Ananta nútanye undu, lencave, oar ho fanyarë,
It might be more elegant to express “from” by the ablative case: fanyarello. The dictionary suggests that “núta-“ can only be used about the sun and the moon… but I´d like to think we can be allowed a little artistic freedom
Yeah, remember, Quenya is a case language it prefers cases to prepositions where posible. Just one other thing with this sentence: "I sink down" can't be expressed with _undu_. Undu is an adjective (according to my wordlists anyway) and since the word 'down' in this sentence describes how you are sinking you need to use an adverb. nún is the adverb meaning down so you could have:
...nútanyë nún... I sink down

Malda núra ar malda núra lelyan undu
You need to use nún here again, for the same reason.

Just a question from me: Where did you get the word _malda_ from??

But well done, great job. You really have a knack for getting the mood in your poetry. Keep at it!!

Namárië meldonya

(I hope I haven't made any mistakes, please let me know if you think that I have:blush: )
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 28, 2003 10:57
Meldon, I´m so happy my comments were OK! And I´ve learnt new things from yours. I´ve found some things to "defend" Cenerue, but I´m not saying that your suggestions aren´t better


Eressë ëar-celumessen
Celumë is a noun, because you are describing the state of the sea, you need either an adjective or a participle.

Quote from Ardalambion dictionary:
in Markirya (ëar-celumessen is translated "in the flowing sea", lit. *"in the sea-streams").


Or nye, vilyasse vilin maiwi yala:
**nyë can't stand by itself as a pronoun, it can only be added to verbs.

Helge suggests in lesson 18 that "nye" can stand by itself as an object form of ni.


Where did you get the word _malda_ from??

Probably from lesson 5.2... I had to search a little, because I thought malda only meant gold...
Gelmir
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 30, 2003 09:15
Not sure how good the translation is but it's kinda fun.

Ambari taltienna aire úistane
Cuile ta enge naruva lá yonta
Man yáresse enge velice naruva ata luttane
Ana súre ta utúlie an
Ilya man nar ar ilya man narne


English
Worlds crash(collapse) upon a sea unknown
Life that was will be no more
What once was great will be again blown(flown)
To a wind that comes for
All who are and all who were


couldn't find a couple words crash and blown, it would make it a little better if anyone knows what they are. Thanx
Meldon
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 31, 2003 01:24
I'm sorry Gelmir, I don't have time to comment right now, I've printed it off, so I'll get back to you in the next few days. Though someone will probably have already done it by then, oh well... Sorry, I just wanted to let you know that I wasn't ignoring you
A clue of where to look to find some of your answers:
You need to have a look at the section in the course regarding relative pronouns (lesson 15), and also, check the section on interrogative words (lesson 19), and I think you'll find some things you need to change in your translation.
But as I said, I will look it over, but I'll fall asleep on the keyboard if I do it now!!

Namárië meldonya.
Cenerue
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 31, 2003 07:49
Rimba hantale, Malinorne ar Meldon an restalye! (Many thanks for your help). I agree with what Malinorne said in my "defense", I was going to say the same things. Unfortunately for "malda" (malta is gold by the way) I don't think we can use it anymore. Someone just told me that Helge Fauskanger has updated his lessons. They said he's found out that the inclusive and exclusive "we's" are different from what they thought, and other things I haven't read yet. He said the changes are mainly in lessons 13-20 but he specifically said that he thinks "malda" actually means "better" but that Tolkien abandoned it in the end. Well, there goes my poem!
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 31, 2003 09:34
Cenerue, unless the lessons have changed again in the past 3 weeks you can keep "malda". The "we´s" are changed, but "malda" is still there.

Gelmir,This is a difficult poem to translate! I´ve made some comments and alternative translations, but they do need to be checked by Meldon or someone else….

Ambari taltienna aire úistane
Worlds collapse upon a sea unknown
Ambari taltar airenna lá istaina

I´d use the aorist (plural) of the verb talta- and attach the allative case ending to the noun instead. It might well be possible to use the prefix ú with the passive participle istaina (is that the correct form?), but I have to leave that to someone who knows more. Ummm… is it the sea that is unknown? Or the worlds? If it´s the worlds, then the participle should be plural, just as you write.

Cuile ta enge naruva lá yonta
Life that was will be no more
Cuile yana nauva vanwa

“Cuile yana” would hopefully mean “that life” (in the past). I´d reword the sentense: Life that was will be lost.

Man yáresse enge velice naruva ata luttane
What once was great will be again blown (flown)
I né yáresse alta hlapuva

“Man” is used only as the question “what?”, so you´ll need the relative pronoun “i” or “ya” here. Using “né” might not be the best solution, but is the only I can offer now. “Velice” seems to be obsolete, so “alta” might be a better word to use here. You might also want to use the verb “hlapu-“ fly (in the wind).

Ana súre ta utúlie an
To a wind that comes for
Súrinen i tuluva

Since this is about something being blown in the wind, I think the best way to express it would be using the instrumental case “by the wind”. I´d also suggest using the future tense of “tul-“ – I understand the wind is going to come sometime in the future.

Ilya man nar ar ilya man name
All who are and all who were
hortien ilye i nar ar ilye i ner.

I´d use plural ”ilye” since you have plural ”are” in the English sentence. Perhaps it would be better to use forms of the verb “ëa” (exist) here ëa/eänë?
“For” could perhaps be expressed by using the dative case for the things the wind is coming for – but there´s nothing in this line to receive the case ending!? So perhaps it must be reworded – a wind that comes (in order) to grasp? (fetch? send flying?) all and everyone.
I´d be happy to hear all ideas anyone may have about this.
Cenerue
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 01, 2003 04:36
Malinorne wrote:

Cuile ta enge naruva lá yonta
Life that was will be no more
Cuile yana nauva vanwa

Could you also say:
Cuile yana nauva lá malda?

Also:
To a wind that comes for
Súrinen i tuluva should we include "an" at the end for "for"?

Finally: what's "hortien"?

[Edited on 1/4/2003 by Cenerue]

[Edited on 1/4/2003 by Cenerue]
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 01, 2003 05:09
I don´t think it would be possible to use "malda" here. The verse talks about life that will cease to exist (time), in other words "Life that was will be no longer", while I understand "malda" as having to do with the amount of something. Does that make any sense at all?

I was trying to avoid "for" and use a case instead. "Hortien" I hope is the gerund of horta-, inflicted for dative. This would be the usual way of expressing "in order to" do whatever the verb is about. So I tried to reword the last two lines: "To a wind that comes in order to send flying all..."

(I´m not saying this would be the only way, perhaps it would indeed be better to just use "for" (and then there´ll be no hortien.)
Meldon
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 01, 2003 08:10
Life that was will be no more
Cuile yana nauva vanwa

“Cuile yana” would hopefully mean “that life” (in the past). I´d reword the sentence: Life that was will be lost.


This is a tricky sentence, and I've got another idea, which I think will fit it better.
In this sentence, 'that' is actually relative. Not demonstrative (I'm pretty sure anyway). Use just 'ya' (which, that). Using this though, would mean that we would also have to insert _né_ 'was'.
This is how I would rework the sentence.
Cuilë ya né nauva vanwa
Literally "Life which/that was will be lost
I'm pretty sure that this is correct.
Namárië meldonyar!!
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 01, 2003 09:30

Cuilë ya né nauva vanwa
Literally "Life which/that was will be lost
I'm pretty sure that this is correct.

Yes! That looks really good! I had completely forgotten the relative pronoun "ya":blush:
Gelmir
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 03, 2003 03:22
Thanks for all that, I'll make some corrections. Thanx again!
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 04, 2003 09:11
OK - my turn now. Here´s a verse for your critical eyes.

Olwalyar nar ranqui rahtala Menelenna
lepsínen laucë Anarnen
Laicë lassi, venyë lassi halyala,
mentala rilma talanna
Ilya ná laiquasse, ilya ná vén
Caitëan nu feren.

Your branches are arms reaching for the sky
with fingers warm from the sun.
Green leaves, fresh leaves shadowing,
guiding a glittering light to the ground
All is greenness, all is freshness
I´m lying under a beech.
Cenerue
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 04, 2003 11:10
Cool poem! I love the visual imagery! The only thing I have a question about is: would "from the sun" be "Anarello"?

Great stuff!
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 04, 2003 07:10
It might be the English I need help with here I want to say that the "fingers" of the tree are warm because they have been warmed by the sun - thus the instrumental case. Help, please...
LadyMeg
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 06, 2003 01:09
Aiya,

Here is a small poem, please tell me if the words are okay and what mistakes were made, practice is only through writing, one day I will get it LOL!

May your troubles be less
And your blessings be more.
And nothing but happiness
Come through your door.

Lótesslyë nairë lá viltë
arlyë almarë lá yonta.
ar lala nan valdë
tulin terëlya mar.


nostalë almië - LadyMeg
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 06, 2003 08:46
Nice and friendly poem, just like you I think!
You have to be really careful when you look up words in a dictionary – try to check that they really can be used as you think – one English word may well have two Quenya equivalents that are to be used in completely different ways. Or there may not be a Quenya word for a certain meaning of the English word. When you´ve found a word in the English-Quenya wordlist it may be useful to look it up in the Quenya-English wordlist as well, just to check.

Lótessë is the month of May. “May” when we wish something to happen would be “nai” (see the last line of Namárië) and the verb needs to be in the future tense (pícuva, nauva, tuluva).
-viltë can only be used as an ending to form adjectives, like the “-less” in “colourless”. The possessive pronoun “lya” is to be attached to the noun it describes (almarelya, marelya). When possible, it´s probably better to use cases instead of pronouns – I´ve used the allative case (ending-nna) for “to your home”.
Heres my suggestion (I´ve had to change some things because of missing words, and I wasn´t able to keep the meter, but I hope the meaning is close enough…)

Nai nairelyar pícuvar
May your troubles lessen

ar almarelya nauva úvëa.
and your blessedness be abundant.

Nai alassë, lá nyére
May happiness, not sorrow

Tuluva márelyanna.
Come to your home.
Meldon
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 06, 2003 07:40
Good explanation Malinornë!!
(You beat me to it again!!)
Keep at it LadyMeg!! You are obviously VERY committed, which is great!! I'll have more practise for you when I write the exercises, I'm going to start on them on Wednesday!!
Namárië meldonyar!!
Cenerue
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 09, 2003 03:43
Here's a poem I've been kicking around for a few months and finally finished this weekend. It's about the Nazgul.

I Umbar Úlairion (The Fate of the Nazgul)

Naicelea yaimë rista ter i lóme
Painful wailing cuts through the night

Et hisiello sinda utuliente
Out of a grey mist they have come

Morni roqueni rocconnar morni ve firnie
Black riders upon horses black as death
~

Lá cuinar, ananta lá firini lelyante ve mi olor aica
Not alive, and yet not dead they travel as in a dire dream

Rúcima umbarenta, acco rúcima mavoinenta
Terrible their fate, too terrible their great longing

I mine corma yale ten ar mauyante veuya
The one ring calls to them and they must follow/serve

Sacuvante tenna Ambar-metta ar pella
They will search until the ending of the world and beyond.
~

I hendi i roccoron ilcar carne mí lóme
The eyes of the horses gleam red in the night

Yalienta ve i yarrala narmoron
Their cries like the snarling of wolves

Anga-vaina tali voro nambar mir i cemen
Iron clad feet continually hammer into the earth

Úvoro serente, ar tar ná lá fainu
They never rest, and there is no release
~

Naicelea quaine quate i lóme
Painful wailing fills the night

Caure epe te, osse tella
Fear before them, terror behind

I nerte yesta roitanta ú metto ata
The nine begin their endless hunt again.

Hope you like it. Please let me know what I have to change in my Quenya translation

Thanks!
Cenerue

[Edited on 16/4/2003 by Cenerue]
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 09, 2003 07:51
This is so good! You´ve really succeed to convey both the terror they spread and their own terrible and utterly hopeless situation. You almost had me feeling sorry for them… for a while at least
I have a lot of comments, but some are just my questions, so don´t think you´ve made such a lot of mistakes.

Naicelea yaimie rista ter i lóme
Painful wailing cuts through the night

“yaimië” would be the plural of the adjective “yaimëa”, so I think you want the noun “yaimë” here.

Et hisiello sinda utuliente
Out of a grey mist they have come

Remember the long vowel in utúliente.

Morni roqueni rocconnar morni ve firnie
Black riders upon horses black as death

There are two words for “black”: morna (pl. mornë) and morë (pl. mori) so you need to make up your mind here about which one you want to use . I don´t think I´ve seen the form “firnië”, so I´d suggest the noun “qualmë” for death. It should fit well here, I think, since it has a darker connotation of death in agony, rather than peaceful dying of old age.

I mine corma yale ten ar mauyante veuya
The one ring calls to them and they must follow/serve

I´d probably use another word for “one” here: er, as “one” here isn´t really about number, but importance – the one, the only (God is Eru, not Min- something).

Sacuvante tenna Ambar-metta ar pella
They will search until the ending of the world and beyond.

Ha! I have the “lost words” list now, so I don´t need to ask about “sac-“
A question about “tenna” though: I think Tolkien usually wrote it tenn´ when the next word begins in a vowel – is this considered a “rule” or is it entirely up to the individual writer?

I hendi i roccoron ilcar carne mí lóme
The eyes of the horses gleam red in the night

Ummm… this one got me thinking. Would “red” be an adjective or an adverb in this case? In my language both would be possible, but the word would have different endings depending on whether “red” describes the eyes or the way they gleam. I know you can´t say **redly in English, but as you can in other languages, then perhaps this difference could exist in Quenya as well – if so I believe “carnë” as an adjective should be plural here, to agree with “hendi”. I´m not sure about the adverb – if it´s just to be left in it´s singular form. I would actually like to add a “–ve”, but I refrain from it since Fauskanger seems to think that coulours can´t be adverbs. To me it seems possible they can, so it would be interesting to hear the thoughts of others on this. Or you can just hit me with some hard evidence to convince me I´m mad

Yalienta ve i yarrala narmoron
Their cries like the snarling of wolves

A question for anybody: Can gerunds, like yalië, be pluralized in Quenya (as they can in Sindarin)?
“Yarrala” is an active participle (“adjective”) and it seems to me we need the gerund “yarrië” (“noun”) here instead.

Anga-vaina tali voro nambar mir i cemen
Iron clad feet continually hammer into the earth

I don´t really know if “vaina” is a passive participle or an adjective, but in any case it needs to agree in number with the plural word “feet”. The word “feet” had me thinking of the feet of the Nazgûl, not the horses, so I wonder if it perhaps would be possible to make a compound word like “horse-feet”. I´m not saying I think you should, poetry doesn´t have to be crystal clear, it was just a thought.

Úvoro serente, ar tar ná lá fainu
They never rest, and there is no release

Wouldn´t the aorist of ser- rather be “serintë”? I suspect “tar” might be an anglicism in this case, so it might be better to use a dative construction instead and say “and for them (is) no release”.

I nerte yesta roitanta ú metto ata
The nine begin their endless hunt again.

You have a plural subject here (at least logically), so there´s a need for a final “r” in yestar. I´ve not been able to find a noun “roita”, just the verb roita-, so you might want the noun “roima” here instead (I guess the gerund, roitië, would also be possible).
Falagar
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 09, 2003 10:42
Not exactly a poem, but a part of an intro to a song by Blind Guardian:

(sauron quetë):
I ohta ná vanwa/lantë?
Elya ná vanwa
I morë menello alantië
I mindor caita rúcina
i cotumo ná mi
ar coles i cala, rato tuluvantë
auta sí, herunya, sí lúmë haryalya
nómer ëa undu.

The real version goes like this:

narrator (Sauron):
The field is lost
Everything is lost
The black one has fallen from the sky and the towers in ruins lie
The enemy is within, everywhere
And with him the light, soon they will be here
Go now, my lord, while there is time
There are places below

Probably made numerous mistakes, just wanted to test myself (will try to translate more poems sometime...perhaps even a song?)


[Edited on 9/4/2003 by Falagar]

[Edited on 9/4/2003 by Falagar]
Cenerue
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 09, 2003 11:55
Malinorne (I love your name!): I agree with your corrections, I'm constantly forgetting to make words plural! Someday I'll get into that habit. Yeah, I'm glad I made you feel sorry for them, that's what I was trying to do. I have a question about "yaimie". I stole it straight from the Markirya poem. Dosen't it work?

I don't know about the "tenna" question but it's probably safer to put tenn' I think red would be an adjective and I'd make it plural.

Yeah, I was thinking about the horse hooves and was sad their was no word for "hooves" Maybe I could say "horse-feet"

Yup. I was really unsure about "tar" but didn't know what else to say. I like your suggestion. Thanks alot for your critique Malinorne!




Wow, that's an awesome song, really cool Falagar! I think "everything" is "ilqua", maybe, can't remember exactly. you might want to say "morion" for "black one". For "within" I'd use "mir" or "minna". I don't know how to really say "with him". For "go now" I'd use "lelya" and make it a command, "á lelya sí". Any other ideas? I really love it!
Falagar
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 09, 2003 12:31
Wow, that's an awesome song, really cool Falagar! I think "everything" is "ilqua", maybe, can't remember exactly. you might want to say "morion" for "black one". For "within" I'd use "mir" or "minna". I don't know how to really say "with him". For "go now" I'd use "lelya" and make it a command, "á lelya sí". Any other ideas? I really love it!

I decided to use "auta" here, since the meaning is more "depart, vanish" than just "go" .

Morion for black one? Yes, perhaps...I just used "The black [one] has fallen from the skies", but I guess I should input/suffix a word for "one" (just couldn't come up with one right then). Oh! And I forgot the "imperative marker" (á).

I used "mir" in the first version, but when I was going to post it I became uncertain and edited it away.

Couldn't find any word for"with him" either, so I used "he bears".

The last part of the intro goes like this:

(Morgoth):
I had a part in everything
Twice I destroyed the light and twice I failed
I left ruin behind me when I returned
But I also carried ruin with me
She, the mistress of her own lust

But I gave up when I couldn't find a word for "part" or anything similar...

And Blind Guardian's wbsite is here, click on Discography and Nightfall in Middle Earth to find the text.

[Edited on 9/4/2003 by Falagar]
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 09, 2003 08:12
I have a question about "yaimie". I stole it straight from the Markirya poem. Dosen't it work?

"Yaimië" in Markirya is an adjective (plural of yaimëa), describing the gulls - "wailing gulls" in less poetic word order. I guess the English word "wailing" used in this way might actually be an active participle, but that isn´t important here.

In your poem, "wailing" is a noun (perhaps a gerund?) - you´re talking about "the wailing of the Nazgûl", not "the wailing Nazgûl").

I hope this makes sense
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 10, 2003 08:11
Aiya Falagar! Here´s some more ideas about your translation. I checked the site – it´s really cool with a whole album with ME-related lyrics!

The field is lost
I ohta ná vanwa/lantë?

I think ”vanwa” would be the best word to use here – the line would then mean ”the war is over”, which fits nicely with the next line. For “fallen”, the passive participle “lantaina” would probably be best, but then you´d need another noun, “ohta” would hardly fit.

Everything is lost
Elya ná vanwa

You probably meant “ilya” (all, the whole). Cenerue´s suggestion “ilqua” (everything) looks fine too, but I would use “ilya” here.

The black one has fallen from the sky
I morë menello alantië

Cenerue´s suggestion “Morion” would be excellent here, since it seems to be an actual title of Morgoth. But it´s not wrong to use “i morë”, it would be an adjective used as a noun and then there´s no need to add some word for “one” – it´s implied.

and the towers in ruins lie
I mindor caita rúcina

“Towers” are plural, so we need a plural verb (caitar) and a plural passive participle (rúcinë).
(“Markirya” has “fanyarë rúcina” for “broken skies”, but that´s because the Quenya noun is singular.)

The enemy is within, everywhere
i cotumo ná mi

I believe “mi” is fine here. “mir” and “minna” would rather mean “into, towards the inside”.

And with him the light, soon they will be here
ar coles i cala, rato tuluvantë

No need for the “-s”, just "colë".

Go now, my lord, while there is time
auta sí, herunya, sí lúmë haryalya

Typo: you´ll want “haryalyë”.

Just an idea for the “Morgoth” part (don´t give up, meldonya ) : Perhaps it would be possible to use “I was in everything”, “All was my doing” or something like that?

[Edited on 10/4/2003 by Malinornë]
Falagar
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 10, 2003 09:55
Meant Ilya, yep (mixed it with "elyë")
Typo: you´ll want “haryalyë”.

True
Cenerue´s suggestion “Morion” would be excellent here, since it seems to be an actual title of Morgoth. But it´s not wrong to use “i morë”, it would be an adjective used as a noun and then there´s no need to add some word for “one” – it´s implied.

I think he is talking about Ancalagon the Black (he fell on the Thangodrim and broke them), since Morgoth never fell from the sky
“Towers” are plural, so we need a plural verb (caitar) and a plural passive participle (rúcinë).
(“Markirya” has “fanyarë rúcina” for “broken skies”, but that´s because the Quenya noun is singular.)

I have a bad habit of forgetting things when I write in Quenya, especially things like which ending is excl. and which is incl. "us", and also all the plural endings when a noun is plural
Cenerue
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 10, 2003 11:49
Okay, yes Malinorne, I understand about "yaimie" now. Thanks!
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 10, 2003 08:47

I think he is talking about Ancalagon the Black (he fell on the Thangodrim and broke them), since Morgoth never fell from the sky


Ancalagon? I obviously have to take a deeper look into some books I didn´t mean Melkor´s fall was literal... I´ve just always seen him as a "Lucifer" figure...

EDIT: Oh, I found him, Ancalagon the great dragon... so stick to your original translation.

[Edited on 13/4/2003 by Malinornë]
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