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LadyMeg
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 12, 2003 12:36
Aiya to All,

Another one of my little poems you will get sick of correcting me, sorry :dizzy:

The Rainbow Faeries.
i helyanwë Inwi

One faery wore violet,
minë Inwe colla helin

And one wore indigo;
ar minë colla luinë

In pale blue, green, yellow, orange, red,
mi helwa, laiqu, malina, culuina, carnë,

They made a beautiful row.
carnënte vanye téma.

Glittering brightly in the moonlight.
rilya alcarë mi isilmë

Hidden within the Flower garden.
muina mi i lotarwa

Circled by a golden ray of light.
rindë an laurië alca


hantalë - LadyMeg





[Edited on 15/4/2003 by LadyMeg]

[Edited on 15/4/2003 by LadyMeg]

[Edited on 27/5/2003 by LadyMeg]
LadyMeg
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 12, 2003 08:05
Aiya to All,

Another faery poem I hope you are not all sick of me yet

Beautiful Faeries:
vanyar Inwi

Beauitful are the Faeries
Vanyar nar i Inwi

Who make dreams come true.
i carir olóri arwa.

Making many watch,
Carala limbë tirë

The stars and the moon.
I eleni ar Isil.

Magic silver light,
Sairina istil,

From Faeries glittering.
inwellon mirilyala.

Faeries dance on the flowers,
Inwi lilta i lótennar,

And sing songs of love.
Ar lirin lindë melmëo.

And you just dream,
Ar len ólar olóri,

And always stay true,
Ar illumë sanda,

The Faeries will be there,
I inwi nauvar sinomë,

To watch over you!
Le tirien!



Hantale - LadyMeg


[Edited on 27/5/2003 by LadyMeg]
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 12, 2003 11:18
Don´t worry, LadyMeg, I enjoy doing this and learn from it too…
I´m a bit at a loss here, since it seems to me that “Inwilis” means “Land of the fairies” rather than just “fairy”, which would leave us without the most essential word for these poems, unless it can be isolated from “inwinórë”, which I´m hardly capable of doing . Anyone?
Falagar
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 14, 2003 03:16
Now, I'm no expert so please correct me if I do any mistakes:

Beautiful Faeries:
vanya Inwinórë
Beauitful are the Faeries
vanya nar i Inwinórë

Shouldn't vanya here be plural vanyar?
Who make dreams come true.
man carin olórë tulin anwa.

Carin and tulin are 1.person "I make"/"I come". Also, olórë is singel "dream". For plural "dreams" you may want "olóri".


The stars and the moon.
i elenna ar i Isil.

Elenna means either "starwards"/"to [a] star".
The plural of elen is eleni. You don't need any i
in front of Isil or elenna.

That was all I had time for right now, I may try to take the rest later
Cenerue
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 14, 2003 12:03
Well, if “inwinórë" means "land of the fairies" perhaps "inwi" means "fairies" since we know “nórë" means "land" Mana sanalye? (What do you think?)
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 14, 2003 08:07
Thanks! It looks possible to me. And then I guess "a fairy" would be "inwë"... if noone beats me to it I´m going to add some suggestions for LadyMeg tonight.
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 15, 2003 10:54
Beautiful Faeries:
Vanyar Inwi

Beauitful are the Faeries
vanyar nar i Inwi

Falagar is right – the –r for plural is necessary.

Who make dreams come true.
man carë olóri carin anwa.
i carir olóri arwa

“Who make” can be translated “i carir” (plural) and I don’t think we need “come” here.

Making many watch,
carmë limbë tirin
carala limbë tirë

Carmë is a noun (the act of making), so I´ve used the active participle of the verb car- instad. “Tirë” is the infinitive, which would fit better here. “Tirin” would mean “I watch”.

Magic silver light,
sairina istil,

Couldn´t find “istil” – perhaps “silmë” could be used instead? Or just let me know where you found it, please.

From Faeries glittering.
ho Inwilnórer rilya.
inwellon mirilyala

Quenya often uses cases rather than prepositions, so I have put “inwi” in the allative case. “Rilya” is a noun, so I´ve used the verb “mirilya-“ instead, here as an active participle.

Faeries dance on the flowers,
Inwilnórer lilta or i lótë,
Inwi liltar i lótennar

Again, the plural ending –r is necessary. “or” would rather be “above” (though it did mean “on, upon” in early Qenya) , so I´ve used the allative case to indicate that the feet of the fairies at least put some pressure to the flowers…

And sing songs of love.
ar lirin lindë melmë.
ar lirer lindi melmëo

Plural formation again…but don´t worry, we´ll very soon have some exercises on that. And I´ve used genitive for “of love = concerning love”

And you just dream,
ar le faila olórë
Ar len ólar olóri

”To dream” is an impersonal verb in Quenya, so the person dreaming is to be put in the dative case. Would that be len? Independent pronouns are not my strength…
“Faila” is an adjective meaning “just, fair-minded, generous”, so it doesn´t fit here. We´re actually missing a lot of that kind of simple and very useful words, so I´m just going to omit it here.

And always stay true,
ar illumë norta sanda,
ar illume sanda

“Norta-“ is Neo-Quenya for “stay” in the sense “dwell, abide”, so I wouldn´t use it here. Perhaps we can do without a verb, just have an implied “be”.

The Faeries will be there,
i Inwilnórer selma ná en,
I inwi nauvar sinomë

I couldn´t think of a good word for “there” right now, so I put “here” instead… Nauva is the future tense of ná (is). “selma” is a noun, meaning “a fixed idea, a will”.

To watch over you!
ana tirin or le!
Le tirien!

“Tirien” is the dative gerund, the form used in phrases meaning “in order to” do something. The verb tir- already has the meaning “watch over”, so no preposition is necessary.

I´m awfully tired tonight, so please forgive me if some of this doesn´t make sense
Please feel free to come with corrections and better ideas!
LadyMeg
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 15, 2003 01:24
Aiya Malinornë,

Hantale for all your corrections, where I got istil from is;

Ardalambions Quettaparma Quenyanna under Silver, there is Silver Light either, istil or istel. I hope that is correct.

Thought I would let you know.

Namárië - LadyMeg
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 16, 2003 09:09
Aiya LadyMeg!
Thanks for telling me about istil – it´s really a good word. I didn´t think about lookning under “silver”, just “light”…
Here are some comments on your first fairy-poem (I have again assumed that “inwi” is “fairies” as Cenerue suggested):

The Rainbow Faeries.
i helyanwë Inwilis
I inwi helyanweva

I´ve attached the possessive ending to “rainbow” to indicate that the fairies belong to it in some way.

One faery wore violet,
minë Inwilis colla helin
Minë inwë collë ninwa.

“helin” is the flower violet, not the colour. You might want to use “ninwa”, another word for “blue”. I´m not really sure if it´s possible to say in Quenya that someone´s “wearing blue”. Perhaps it´s necessary to say “is wearing blue clothes” instead, but I really don´t know. All ideas are most welcome!

And one wore indigo;
ar minë colla luinë
ar minë collë luin

In pale blue, green, yellow, orange, red,
mi helwa, laiqu, malina, culuina, carnë,

Good! Just check your spelling of “laiqua”

They made a beautiful row.
carnënte vanya téma.

Also good! No need for the dots in the middle of a word (unless it´s in a vowel combination like ëo).

Glittering brightly in the moonlight.
rilya alcarë mi i isilmë
mirilyala alquarinquavë isilmessë.

Rilya is a noun – we need the active participle of the verb mirilya- instead. Alcarë is a noun and we need an adjective to form the adverb brightly. “Alquarinquavë” looks rather clumsy, though… I guess you could use “mi i”, but I would use the locative ending instead – I just like that better.

Hidden within the Flower garden.
muina mi i lotarwa
Nurtaina mi …

“muina” is the adjective “hidden, secret”, so I guess it could be used, but I would prefer a verb form, the passive participle. Might just be a matter of personal taste. I couldn´t find a word for “garden” – is that what “arwa” means?

Circled by a golden ray of light.
rindë an laurië alca
calyaina laurëa alcanen.

“Rindë” is the noun “circle”, and we need a verb here. Perhaps “illuminated” would do? “Laurië” is plural. I believe “by” is best expressed by using the instrumental case, so I´ve attached the ending –nen to “alca”.

Namárië meldonya
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 16, 2003 09:52
This is just a translation, and a “borrowed” one too. Galásiel translated these lines by Dorothy Parker to Sindarin, and I liked them so much that I wanted to try to translate them into Quenya. All suggestions are welcome!

I have lived with shades, a shade. I am hung with graveyard flowers.
Amárien ve manu manuon, cóla nieninqui noireo.
I have dwelt as a ghost of ghosts, wearing flowers from a tomb.

Let me be tonight arrayed in the silver of the showers.
Á topë nye sinyë sinassë telpina rossenen.
Cover me this evening with silver rain.

* I used “nieninqui” (snowdrops) since it also means “little tears” and put “this evening” in the locative case, thinking that “tonight” logically means “(in) this evening”.
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 25, 2003 09:08
Aiya! Does anyone read this thread? I hope so - I need your comments!!!

This is a very seasonal little poem, just some thoughts and feelings about this very changeable time of the year. Last weekend we had warm and sunny weather (+14 C) and yesterday it was –13 C and snowing! Just an introduction for those of you happy enough to live in a nicer climate.
The English translation of the second part is rather “loose”, but hopefully means the same as the Quenya text though the wording is different. The grammar is a bit shaky in some places, so please comment!

Sanwi mi Víressë
Thoughts in April

I.
Cemen cuivëa. Mornië, heca!
Nature is awakening. Darkness, be gone!
Ámen anta áre! Ámen anta laito!
Give us some sunlight! Give us life!

I quórola lossë lehtëa núterya.
The suffocating snow is loosing its bond.
I helcë amárië sinomë andavë.
The ice has been here for so long.
Milyan sírala nén.
I long for open water.

Fauta, nan istan lá maruva.
It is snowing, but I know it will not last.
Hríve fíra. Utúlië tuilë.
Winter is dying. Spring has come


II
Umin nyerë i vanwë lotin – entuluvante.
I do not mourn for the lost flowers – they will return.
I aldar cuivëar.
The trees are stirring.

Mavoinenya Anaren tyeluva.
My great longing for the Sun has an end.
I auri nar malda voronwë.
The days are getting longer.

Ananta orë órenyan naina, irë tirin Eär avaleryaina.
And yet it grieves my heart to watch the sea in chains.
Víressë ná i lúmë rúcina estelwa.
April is the season of shattered hope.


[Edited on 29/5/2003 by Malinornë]

[Edited on 20/7/2004 by Malinornë]
LadyMeg
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Post RE: Poetry
on: May 02, 2003 02:57
Aiya ilya,

Here is another poem I have been working on, hope you like this and please correct mistakes, Hantale

Title : Wandering Through the Old Forest: By J.R.R Tolkien
Ráner terë i enwina taurë

1. O! Wanderers in the shadowed land
O! Ránar mí ungor nórë

2. Despair not! For though dark they stand,
nyérë lá! An sanwë mórë te tulca,

3. All woods there be Will end at last,
Ilye taure mauya teluva ,

4. And see the open sun go past:
Ar ela i panta Anar lendë vanwië:

5. The setting sun, the rising sun,
I andúnë, i anarórë,

6. The day's end, or the day begun.
I aurer metta, var i amaurëa

7. For east or west all woods must fail...
An rómen númëa ilya tauri mauya lanta...

Namárië - LadyMeg
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Post RE: Poetry
on: May 11, 2003 03:02
Aiya Lady Meg!
Good poem! Here are some comments, at last:

Title: I´d use the active participle “ranyala” for “wandering”.

1: “A!” “ungo” is a noun and we need an adjective here – I suggest “halda” (glossed “shadowed, hidden, shady”). And you probably know by now that I prefer cases to prepositions when possible, so I would have the first line as “A! Ránar i halda nóressë” (but it´s not wrong to use mí).

2: “nyére” is the noun “grief”, but “despair not” is an imperative phrase, an “order” not to despair so I´d go for “áva nyéna!” (Don´t lament!) “Sanwë“ means “a thought“ – I´d just skip “though” for lack of better ideas. “morë” is the noun “dark, darkness” – here, the adjective “morna” is needed. For “stand” there´s a reconstructed verb (*tyul-). My suggestion for this line would be: “Áva nyéna! An mornë tyuler”

3: Plural of “taurë” is “tauri” (Lesson thread 2 will be up soon and will have exercises on this!). I´d just translate this line as “Ilyë tauri teluvar” (all woods will end), or, with “mauya-” : “Ilyë tauri mauyuvar tyelë” (all woods must end).

4: I may be wrong, but it seems to me that this line says that it is the forests that will se the sun, so I´d translate it as “Ar cenuvar i panta Anarr lelyuva” (and will see the open sun pass). I´m not too sure about “panta” here, but then “the open sun” looks strange in English too

6: “The day´s end” = the end of the day, so I´d use genitive here: i aurëo metta

7: Perhaps it would be good to use locative here, since it seems to me this line means that the woods must end IN the east or west. Or, as “númëa” means “in the west”, it might be possible to have “rómëa” for “in the east”. “All woods”= ilyë tauri (both words need to be in plural) “mauyar” (plural).

As usual, all comments to these comments are very welcome! Especially thoughts on the use of “mauya-“ – it seems rather unclear whether this is an impersonal verb or not…
Corintur_Linyacelu
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Post RE: Poetry
on: May 20, 2003 12:26
Hi,

as I promised, I had a look on the "Thoughts in April"-poem this morning - during two really boring English-lessons

Sanwi mi Víressë - Thoughts in April

I.
Eä cuivëa. Mornië, heca!
Nature is awakening. Darkness, be gone!
Ámen anta áre! Ámen anta laito!
Give us some sunlight! Give us life!

It gives me somehow a strange feeling using "Eä" as "nature", but it is glossed nature in the Quenyallo and I don't have any alternatives, so keep it.

I quórola lossë lehtëa nótë.
The suffocating snow is loosing it´s bond.

I found "bond" as "nútë", not "nótë" in the Quenyallo (" nútë "bond, knot" (NUT)" ) ... a typo?
And in the translation you say "it's bond". Do you mean "its bond" (the bond belongs to the snow) or "it is bond" or "it has bond" ? In the Quenya translation there is no indication of any of those solutions, so perhaps "núterya" (which seemes the most probable version to me).

Hríve fíra. Utúlië tuilë.
Winter is dying. Spring has come

This "Utúlië tuilë" sounds really nice


II
Umin nyerë i vanwë loti – entuluvante.
I do not mourn for the lost flowers – they will return.

Isn't "for lost flowers" indirect object and should be dative, as you also wrote later "longing for the Sun" and used dative?
In German both would be accusative and so no dative at all, but this may be an idiom and I don't really come along with "direct object" and "indirect object"-stuff HKFs course always talks about. But as the construction of the both sentences is the same but different cases are used there has to be a mistake in one of them... Or does one of the verbs request dative?

Mavoinenya Anaren tyeluva.
My great longing for the Sun has an end.

If "mavoinë" is "great longing", then it is alright, but I didn't found such a form in the Quenyallo... where did you get it from?
Additionally the translation is somehow a bit "loose" (as you said), translating a Future tense with a present tense, perhaps you should change either "tyeluva" to "tyela" (aorist) or the translation to "will have an end"...
But the meaning is obvious, anyhow

I auri anvoronwë.
The days are getting longer.

Just to make sure that I understood that right: "anvoronwë" is from "an-" (superlative prefix) and "voronwë" (plural of "long-lasting, enduring"), true?
So this "getting" is in fact not in the Quenya-version of the verse, only "The longest days".
Again, perhaps a matter of translation... I am not sure what I should critize in that matter (same as above), the english translation (which is obviously not very close) or the quenya text. What was first? If you want to say that the days are getting longer the Quenya translation is insufficient, but if you the Quenya text was written before this more poetic translation was done it's just what is called "poetical freedom" in translations...

Ananta orë órenyan naina tírala Eär avaleryaina.
And yet it grieves my heart to watch the sea in chains.

Word-to-word it would be: "And yet it impels my heart to lament watching The Great Sea bound." ..?
The construction with orë seems all right, but somehow the conjunction between the grief of the heart and the cause of it (watching the great sea bound) seems a bit strange to me. In fact the watching of the sea grieves the heart, but that would then be a complete new construction (with "nyerë" again). Just a bit of a strange feeling, but it is surely okay as it is.

All in all it's a real nice poem Though April is already over

I hope I could help a bit and give some of the help back you gave me

[Edited on 20/5/2003 by Corintur_Linyacelu]
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: May 29, 2003 12:46
Hantalë, meldonya! It was great to read your comments and I guess some of my mistakes are due to my trying to use two foreign languages... I had most of this poem in my head in Swedish, then I tried to adapt my thoughts to the words available in Quenya and then the whole thing should be converted into passable English without conflicting too much with the Quenya grammar...not too easy! I´ll try to explain why I did some of the things you commented on, and hopefully we can agree on a solution:

I quórola lossë lehtëa nótë.
The suffocating snow is loosing it´s bond.

You´re right, this should definitely be “núterya” and “its”.

Umin nyerë i vanwë loti – entuluvante.
I do not mourn for the lost flowers – they will return.

The Swedish word for “mourn” doesn´t need a preposition, it would just be “to mourn the lost flowers”, where I think “flowers” would be the “direct object” (it was called “accusative object” in my school), so I chose accusative for the Quenya (as you would in German). But now I think I should use dative, not to conflict with the other sentence of the same structure...because it seems more troublesome to try to change that one... Or perhaps it would be better to reword a bit: “Umin nyerë ya i loti na vanwë” (I do not grieve that the flowers are gone), if “ya” can be used that way. What do you think?

Mavoinenya Anaren tyeluva.
My great longing for the Sun has an end.

I found “mavoinë” in Quenyanna, under the entry “long for”...sometimes these wordlists don´t correspond too well to each other and are not very logical IMHO.

I auri anvoronwë.
The days are getting longer.

I don´t know what I was thinking...this should be “I auri nar malda voronwë” (literally: the days are more long-lasting).

Ananta orë órenyan naina tírala Eär avaleryaina.
And yet it grieves my heart to watch the sea in chains.

I understand, I´m not entirely comfortable with this either. Perhaps I should use infinitive “tirë” instead? Or be more literal:
Ananta orë órenyan naina irë tirin Eär avaleryaina.
(And yet it impels for my heart to lament when I watch the Great sea bound)

Thanks again for your help!
Corintur_Linyacelu
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Post RE: Poetry
on: May 29, 2003 03:42
It was great to read your comments and I guess some of my mistakes are due to my trying to use two foreign languages... I had most of this poem in my head in Swedish, then I tried to adapt my thoughts to the words available in Quenya and then the whole thing should be converted into passable English without conflicting too much with the Quenya grammar...not too easy!

Yes, that's one of the points why I do not dare to attempt to write a Quenya poem, because I'd have the same problems like you had. It's very difficult to write a poem in a foreign language and more than difficult if there are so few words as there are in Quenya....


The Swedish word for “mourn” doesn´t need a preposition, it would just be “to mourn the lost flowers”, where I think “flowers” would be the “direct object” (it was called “accusative object” in my school), so I chose accusative for the Quenya (as you would in German). But now I think I should use dative, not to conflict with the other sentence of the same structure...because it seems more troublesome to try to change that one...

It would be easier to use accusative in both, according to our native languages... and I think accusative object and direct object are the same, while indirect object is in dative (so I learned it in French) and I think these are direct objects...? Not sure, as I said, I don't come along with these object-things.
Is there somewhere perhaps an example of an attested construction with "milya-" or "nyére-" in some poem of Tolkien? (I'll check this now..)


“Umin nyerë ya i loti na vanwë” (I do not grieve that the flowers are gone), if “ya” can be used that way. What do you think


"Ya" is a relative pronoun and this is not a relative sentence, so I'd say that this use is not allowed or at least really uncertain. One could use "Umin nyere i loti ya na vanwe" (i do not mourn (for) the flowers which are gone) but there you have your "for" again, so it's useless.
I will look for an example... if I don't find something, you'll have to take the option you like most

Ananta orë órenyan naina irë tirin Eär avaleryaina.
(And yet it impels for my heart to lament when I watch the Great sea bound)


That's quite good. No more additions :]

Edit: Didn't found something about a milya- or nyere- construction

[Edited on 29/5/2003 by Corintur_Linyacelu]
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: May 29, 2003 04:39
I´ve edited the poem now and decided to use dative after "nyerë" after all...Thanks again!
Celebrian_Kementari
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 08, 2004 04:00
Concerning this,

It gives me somehow a strange feeling using "Eä" as "nature", but it is glossed nature in the Quenyallo and I don't have any alternatives, so keep it.

Could you use kemen? As in my last name?

This is a beautiful poem, in my opinion the best on this thread.

Hantanyel Malinornë vanima lairelyen. (Is that right?)

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Megilwen
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 22, 2004 11:39
Wow, nobody has posted on this thing for a really long time...here's one that I wrote and translated...

My own land, Belariand!
Nórënya, Belariand!
Land-my, Belariand!

Now when I walk through the stands
Si ve vantanye mí rimbër
Now as walk-I in-the hosts

Of trees in the ancient lands
O taulër mí yára nórër
Of trees in-the ancient lands

(The great land, Belariand;
(Arat nórë, Belariand;
(noble land, Belariand;

My own land) I cry and call,
Nórënya) nainanye ar nallanya,
Land-my) Lament-I and cry-I

"Is this the end? 'Tis the fall
"Nas i-mentë? Nas i-atalantië
"Is-it the end? It is the fall

Of fair Belariand. Now all
O vanë Belariand. Si ilye
Of fair Belariand. Now all

Elf-maidens have fair cause
Eldar- vendër haryas faila tyar
Elf-maidens have just cause

To lament, and raise to the sky
An naina ar orta an i-ilwë
For lament, and raise for the sky

A great wailing, and a cry:
Úra miulë ar naina:
A great wail and lament:

'Belariand, why did you die?
'Belariand, man firiëlye?
'Belariand, what/who you have died?

Was it Morgoth? Was it I?'"
Narye Morgoth? Narye enye?'"
Was he Morgoth? Was he even I?'"

~~~~~~~~~~
How is that translation? Is it right and everything? The normal text is how it's supposed to be, the bold is the quenya (doi) and the italics is the literal translation.

Namarie,
Mac

[Edited on 3-23-04 by Megilwen]
Lambengolmo
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 22, 2004 01:37
Let me first say that I like this poem (the English version). Did you write it yourself or was it constructed by someone else?

Now on to the Quenya.

The word ve "as/like" is a comparitive particle and I do not think that it would be a good translation of "as" in this context because there is no comparitive phrase. At the moment I cannot think of an alternate wording for this.

Nouns ending in -ë are known to have plurals in -i (with a few exceptions) so the plurals of rimbë, taulë, nórë, vendë should rather be rimbi, tauli, nóri, vendi respectivly.

Also, some of the lines are phrased as questions in the English version but are statments in your Quenya version. The direct English translation of the last line is something like "It is Morgoth. It is me.". To turn these into questions you would need to add the imperitive particle ma. Though doing this might ruin the poetic meter.

Quenya has it's own words for Belariand and Morgoth and I think that it would be better to use Hecelmar and Moringotto instead.

I have some other, more contriversal, points that I will bring up when I have more time (If no-one beats me to it).
Megilwen
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 23, 2004 11:13
Thankee much! I did actually write it, and there's four more lines of it that I was too lazy to figure out the literal translation.:dizzy:

So, the last line would be something like, "Ma narye Moringotto? Ma narye enye?"? Or does the 'ma' go onto the verb or something?
Lambengolmo
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 23, 2004 01:49
Sorry for not explaining to you where ma was supposed to go:blush:. Your guess is correct. It should go at the front of the sentance.

Just a suggestion -> If adding the particle ruins the meter of your poem then you could change both counts of naryë to nas (thus eliminating two syllables) which mean the same thing.

Further comments
1) The emphatic form of I is actually inyë and not *enyë.

2) "Why" can be translated directly using manan which literally means "for what".

3) The adjective yára needs to be pluralised (yárë) because it describes a plural noun.

4) "Noble land" would be better as Aranórë as I do not think that *Arat is a Quenya word.

5) Neither can I pinpoint the etymology of nalla. There being no verb for cry (in the sense "weep") means that it is rather difficult to offer alternatives.

6) Metta might be better for "end" in this context because mentë means a physical end (e.g. "the end of a rope") and is not attested in a time context, whereas metta is (e.g. Ambar-metta "world's end") (I am not too sure of my sources on this one, but it is better to be safe than sorry).

7) I think vanë would be better as vanya because it's validity in LotR-style Quenya is somewhat debatable.

The word "of" would, I think, be better translated into Quenya using the genitive case rather than o. The two occurances would change as follows:
O tauli > Taulion
O vanë Belariand > Vanya Hecelmaro

These are only my opinions and should not be regarded as nessicarily "correct".

Yet again, I have more points that I would like to bring up but do not have the time. Meanwhile, I will leave you (and anyone else who is reading) to ponder my thoughts here presented.
Celebrian_Kementari
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 24, 2004 03:45
Aiya ilquen,

At last I have written my first Quenya poem! Forgive the mistakes and please post any corrections you may have...I've only been learning Quenya for a month or two.

Lindë Noldova
Song of the Noldo

Cenin laurië lantala lassi
I see the falling leaves
ar istan lassalanti tuluva
and I know a fall will come
yan úva ëa coirë.
for which there will be no spring.
úvan marë oialë sinome.
I shall not remain here forever.

Enyalin Valimar ar i cálala Ardu
I remember Valimar and the shining Trees
ar Varda yo henduva eleni nar halta.
and Varda, of whose eyes the stars are a glittering
reflection.
Mal Lórien yando ná vanima,
But Lorien also is fair,
ar alassi Endorwa nar úvië.
and the joys of Middle-earth are abundant.

Nanyë linyenwa, lá yéni ataníva;
I am old, beyond the years of Men;
i malinorni nar sindë hendunyessë
the trees are grey in my eyes,
yétala oialë Númenna.
looking always Westward.
Yulmanya yeníva ná lusta.
My cup of years is empty.

Umin cenë i metta.
I do not see the end.
Tienya palya oialë.
My path stretches forever.
Mana lussë ciryana ciruva?
At what time will my ship set sail?
A manna Atani! An firuvalyë.
O blessed Men! For you shall die.


In the last line I wanted to say, "for you can die," but I couldn't find a word for can or able. Does anyone know of one?

Thanks for reading this!

Celebrian

[Edited on 25/3/2004 by Celebrian_Kementari]
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 25, 2004 08:28
Celebrian, for now just a comment to your question about "can" or "be able". There's "pol-", meaning "be able to" in the sense "physically able to" and to me it seems it would fit perfectly for what you want to express.

Edit: I've had a closer look now and I really like this poem! Very "elfy"
I have some comments for you, but almost only regarding spelling:

Cenin laurië lantala lassi
I see the falling leaves

* you can remove ”laurie¨” unless you want the meaning to be ”I see the golden falling leaves”

ar istan lassalanti tuluva
and I know a fall will come

* lasselanta

Enyalin Valimar ar i cálala Ardu
I remember Valimar and the shining Trees

* Aldu

ar Varda yo henduva eleni nar halta.
and Varda, of whose eyes the stars are a glittering
reflection.

* nalta

i malinorni nar sindë hendunyessë
the trees are grey in my eyes,

* hendunyassë

Mana lussë ciryana ciruva?
At what time will my ship set sail?
* ciryanya

A manna Atani! An firuvalyë.
O blessed Men! For you shall die.

* I think ”manna” would be plural ”mannë”


[Edited on 27/3/2004 by Malinornë]
Tyrhael
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 25, 2004 12:31
Here's my poem, and its translation:

Ara nendë yára taulë nyéna,
Nauca aran rína alcainen istelo,
Célula indili sirir ara rícala táliryat
Calyanë tintílala mírinen morna natsessë lómeva.

Nu sindë rancoryar linga sintanë [?]
Illinganë sanweviltë cáralanen lúmeva.
Ilya ná avalamma, hequa i yaimë súriva
Lámyala or eressië ambor ar nalli.

Apasanwi wilir arta i nyérinqua hellë
Vë [?] or mornë nendi caitar:
Laurëa ára sílala uruvoitë maltava,
Narwa rembinen ar sírala laurëa findessëo;
Nessa hína illinyenwa,
Lálala linganero yáressë.

Avalamma i linyenwa taulë enyallë,
Enyálala alassië yéni i vanwieva.
Olwaryar rúmanentë, sí nítë,
Ar allamma hautanero, ar né senda.

Ok, I think (well, I KNOW) that the translation's off, so here's the English version.

Reveries of a Tree

Along a mere an ancient oak tree weeps,
A gnarled king crownèd with rays of lustrous light,
Streaming lilies strewn about his twining feet
Lit by twinkling jewels in the grim tapestry of night.

'Neath his hoary arms hangs a faded swing,
Unhinged by the thoughtless ravages of time.
All is silent, save the wailing of the winds
Moaning o'er lonesome hills and dells.

Memories fly across the dreary skies
Like ripples o'er sombre ponds do lie:
A brazen Dawn of shining gold ablaze,
Rose-fingerèd with flowing golden hair;
A tender child not yet come of age,
Laughing as he swang in long-past days.

Silently the old tree mused anew,
Remembering blissful years long since past.
His branches swayed, now bedewed,
And with a sigh he stilled, and was content.


I really want to translate this, and would appreciate corrections.

-Tyrhael
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: March 26, 2004 11:29

Could you use kemen? As in my last name?

This is a beautiful poem, in my opinion the best on this thread.


Thank you, Celebrian, that's a good idea! And thanks for the compliment :blush:
Celebrian_Kementari
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 13, 2004 02:06
Thanks so much for your comments Malinornë! Most of the spelling mistakes are because I had lent my only copy to my friend, and so I typed the poem from memory. I added "laurië" entirely by accident, but I think I'll leave it in; it sounds better.

All your other comments are right on. I should be a little more careful in future.

P.S. When I said, in line 3, "yan úva ëa coirë," was my tense of ëa correct? It should have been infinitive, but I don't know the infinitive of ëa.

[Edited on 14/4/2004 by Celebrian_Kementari]
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 14, 2004 08:40

P.S. When I said, in line 3, "yan úva ëa coirë," was my tense of ëa correct? It should have been infinitive, but I don't know the infinitive of ëa.


I don't think anybody knows the infinitive of ëa
Another way to express this would be by using the negative particle "lá" (no, not) instead of the negative verb. Then we'd have "yan lá nauva coirë". "nauva" (the future tense of ná) is not attested either, of course...

[Edited on 14/4/2004 by Malinornë]
Celebrian_Kementari
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 14, 2004 09:20
In that case, maybe I should say something different, like "yan coirë úva tulë" -- for which spring will not come (?). Actually, "after which" would be better, but I'll have to look that up...
Lambengolmo
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 14, 2004 01:02
I do not believe that it is correct to use the dative in this sentance. A word that you could use for after is apa. It is only attested in compounds, but it's the best I've got, I'm afraid.

Personally I like apa ya coirë úva tulë myself, but as Mal says, apa ya lá nauva coirë is a good alternative.

To Malinornë - The future tense form nauva is attested in Vinyar Tengwar number 42 page 34.
Celebrian_Kementari
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 19, 2004 03:09
Why is it that none of these beautiful poems are in the "Sindarin and Quenya Compositions" section under Languages? I went there once, right when I first joined, at it only has Sindarin pieces. Does anyone know how you submit to these kinds of things?
Naneth
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 22, 2004 08:41
All you have to do is let Malinornë know you are interested in having your poem published onsite, have her check it for any mistakes. Then type it out like you see the other poems are (Quenya, original English translation, word-for-word translation) and we'll make a page for it !! Pick out a background like the ones you see for the poems on that page now, or let us know that you would like us to pick one out for you.
Celebrian_Kementari
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 22, 2004 09:27
To say, "you can" in my last line, I get "polelyë." Would this be shortened into "polyë"? I don't know about how words contract, only that sometimes they do. (i.e. Númenna instead of Númenenna--although there's a specific justification for that.)

Hantanyel melloni!
Lambengolmo
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 23, 2004 07:40
Actually, you would translate "you can" as polilyë (or polil)

I would advise against contracting this word as contraction does not occur very often in Quenya and it would cause confusion. The example that you gave (Númenna) is not an example of contraction, the word just assimilates the case ending instead of needing a connecting vowel.

On a minor note - The word mellon is Sindarin, the Quenya word for "friend" is probably melda.
Celebrian_Kementari
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Post RE: Poetry
on: April 24, 2004 06:47
Hantanyel Lambengolmo!

On second thought, I think I'll leave my last line "An firuvalyë" instead of "An polil(ye) firë." The first sounds better.

I don't know where I got the idea that mellon was Quenya--thanks for clearing that up.
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