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aseismic
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Post RE: Poetry
on: May 19, 2004 10:09
Here's one, that was just validated by a bunch at another topic:


Elen Calima
Bright Star

Hellessë i elenion ancalima sílë
In the sky, the brightest of stars shines

Tingilya, ai tingilya
Twinkling star, ah, twinkling star

I Eärendilo lindalë or i ëar
The music of Earendil over the sea

Anta cala firyain, calo ancalima
Gives light to mortals, brightest of light

I lóte lohta i calanen Eärendilo
The flower blossoms by the light of Earendil

Aiya Eärendil, elenion ancalima!
Hail Earendil, brightest of stars

[Edited on 20/5/2004 by aseismic]
Celebrian_Kementari
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Post RE: Poetry
on: May 27, 2004 09:07
It seems there are more poets than critics in this thread--so let me say, aseismic, I did read your poem, and it looks good. I don't know enough to say if you made any mistakes, but I didn't find any.

I wrote another poem, so here goes:

Nainië Nilden
Lament for a Friend
Atanen amárien Endoressë,
For a Man (human) I have remained in Middle-earth,
ar sí avánies,
and now she has gone,
lá nanyë nútina sinomë.
I am not bound here.

A Andreth! Cuilelya ná sinta:
O Andreth! Your life is short:
úmel polë márë as inye.
you could not remain with me.
Sí vanwa nalyë inyello;
Now you are lost from me;
Umin ista yanna oantiel.
I do not know where you have gone.

Alántiel ve lassë aldallo,
You have fallen like a leaf from a tree,
úmel mahta fairelya.
you did not fight your death.
Lá sinten fairë ve sintelyes,
I did not know death as you knew it,
lá cennenyes ve cennelyes.
I did not see it as you saw it.

Túlel cuilenyanna
You came into my life
ve vinya elen menelenna,
like a new star into the heavens,
ve Anar mornë taurenna.
like the Sun into a dark forest.
Sí mornië enutúlië ar Endor ná sindë.
Now darkness has returned and Middle-earth is grey.

Lá hilyuvanyel, melda vende.
I will not follow you, dear maiden.
Lá hiruvanyel.
I will not find you.
Rato ve alqua ramyuvan;
Soon like a swan I shall fly;
ciruvan linta ciryassë i háya falassenna.
I will sail on a swift ship to the far shore.

Nai cenuvanyel
May I see you
Andúnë pella, Arda pella,
beyond the West, beyond the world,
aurë entassë yassë Eldar ar Atani
on that day in which Elves and Men
liruvar as i Ainur alcaressë Ilúvataro.
sing with the Ainur in the glory of Ilúvatar.

I would particularly like a check on my pronouns. Also the word "pella," which I found in Namárië--did I use it right?

Hantanyel!

[Edited on 23/6/2004 by Celebrian_Kementari]
Celebrian_Kementari
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Post RE: Poetry
on: July 02, 2004 01:37
Aiya ilquen,
No one's really been posting on this thread, but I find myself quite incapable of stopping because I love poetry so much! All right, here's my new poem, a very rough attempt. I think it's pretty obvious who it's about.

A Aran Atanion, atan Númeno,
O King of Men, man of the West,
Mahtar tulca ar linta roquen,
Strong warrior and swift rider,
i rámar rielyassë queter
the wings on your crown say
nalyë tára aran atanion.
you are a high king of men.

Nalyë yondo Eldarion ar Atanion,
You are a son of Elves and of Men,
ar yando Ainurion Eruo.
and also of the Holy Ones of God.

úmel rucë melë i elen sinyeva;
You did not fear to love the evening star;
I elen sinyeva úmë or elyë.
(Even) the evening star was not above you.

Ai ilyë atani nar ve elyë,
If all men were like you,
úvalmë rucë auta Endorello.
we would not fear to leave Middle-earth.

I'm not quite sure of my use of "if": In English or Latin, you would use the subjunctive on the verbs after it, but I don't know any such thing in Quenya, so I just used the simple present. More literally, instead of, "If all men were like you, we would...," I said, "If all men are like you, we will..." I doubt it's right, but I do not know how to do it better. Anyone?

Hantanyel,
Celebrian
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Post RE: Poetry
on: July 04, 2004 10:13
Tyrhael, I'm terribly sorry for the long wait... I didn't find this until now
The poem is awesome and you've done a great job with the translation!
I have some suggestions, and I've paired up the English lines with the Quenya to make it easier to follow.

Along a mere an ancient oak tree weeps,
Ara nendë yára taulë nyéna,

>>>"taulë" seems to mean just "great tree", not necessarily an oak. But there is a word for oak if you want to specify: "norno"

A gnarled king crownèd with rays of lustrous light,
Nauca aran rína alcainen istelo,

>>> Where does "istelo" come from? I can't find this word...

Streaming lilies strewn about his twining feet
Célula indili sirir ara rícala táliryat

>>>Could the plural of "indil" perhaps be "indilli"?
sirir/strewn...You use aorist in Quenya, but a passive participle in English?!
I'd think the feet of an oak are its roots... more than two... so wouldn't use a dual form for "feet"

Lit by twinkling jewels in the grim tapestry of night.
Calyanë tintílala mírinen morna natsessë lómeva.

>>>"lit" is passive, so I'd suggest using the passive participle instead of the past tense... or it would been that the oak is doing the lightening. "Lómë" has the stem "lómi-", so "lómiva".

'Neath his hoary arms hangs a faded swing,
Nu sindë rancoryar linga sintanë [?]

>>>Hm... yes, what could we use to translate "swing"???? Perhaps we could be so bold to use "linga" as a noun as well... and then have the present tense of the verb rather than the aorist.

Unhinged by the thoughtless ravages of time.
Illinganë sanweviltë cáralanen lúmeva.

>>>"unhinged" would be the passive participle.
"cárala" would mean "doing, making" as an active participle, thus an adjectival word. You need a noun or gerund here, so maybe "carië" (from car-).

All is silent, save the wailing of the winds
Ilya ná avalamma, hequa i yaimë súriva

>>>I'd use "ú lammo" (without sound) here, as I'd think we have examples of "ava-" only with verbs.

Moaning o'er lonesome hills and dells.
Lámyala or eressië ambor ar nalli.
Memories fly across the dreary skies
Apasanwi wilir arta i nyérinqua hellë
>>> Maybe "enyálië" (recalling ->remembrance) could be used for "memories"?... though "afterthoughts" is a good idea

Like ripples o'er sombre ponds do lie:
Vë [?] or mornë nendi caitar:

>>> I think the diaresis isn't necessary in "ve" as the final e could hardly be silent in this instance. "Ripples"... hm... maybe "cormar"... rings? Or "naltar"... reflections?

A brazen Dawn of shining gold ablaze,
Laurëa ára sílala uruvoitë maltava,
Rose-fingerèd with flowing golden hair;
Narwa rembinen ar sírala laurëa findessëo;

>>>The instrumental case can only be used for "with" in the "instrumental" sense, expressing "by what means" something happened. I'd think "as" will be your best bet here -> As narwe rembi ar sírala laurëa findessë ... but why not use "lepsi" for "fingers"?

A tender child not yet come of age,
Nessa hína illinyenwa,
Laughing as he swang in long-past days.
Lálala linganero yáressë.
Silently the old tree mused anew,
Avalamma i linyenwa taulë enyallë,

>>>Maybe add "ata" for "again"... and "ú lammo"

Remembering blissful years long since past.
Enyálala alassië yéni i vanwieva.

>>>Perhaps just "vanwe" for "the past (ones)"

His branches swayed, now bedewed,
Olwaryar rúmanentë, sí nítë,

>>> you don't need the pronominal ending for "they" here, as you have "olwaryar" as the subject, only the simple plural marker "-r". I'd use plural "níti"

And with a sigh he stilled, and was content.
Ar allamma hautanero, ar né senda.

>>> I think "hwesta" (breath, breeze, puff of air) would be a possible word for "sigh", expecially as variants with "lamma" have been used a couple of times already
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: July 04, 2004 10:20
It seems there are more poets than critics in this thread


Um... yes... but I love reading poems and I really think that looking at the translations of others is a great way to learn and try to recall grammar

I'm on vacation now so I'll finally have the opportunity to spend more time in the forum... Celebrian, your two poems are the next on my "critique" list!
Malinornë
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Post RE: Poetry
on: July 05, 2004 09:49
Aiya Celebrian! Here's a short commentary on your first poem! I like the choice of topic very much, and you've managed to express the elf's emotions well by using the limited vocabulary of Quenya. Good job!

A Andreth! Cuilelya ná sinta:
O Andreth! Your life is short:

>>>Not a mistake, but it looks a little odd with a Sindarin name in a Quenya text... I wonder if the elf might "Quenyrnize" the name in a solemn text like this one.

úmel polë márë as inye.
you could not remain with me.

>>> marë (short a)

Alántiel ve lassë aldallo,
You have fallen like a leaf from a tree,

>>>alantiel (no lenghening of stem vowel before a consonant cluster)

ve Anar mornë taurenna.
like the Sun into a dark forest.

>>>morna (mornë would be plural)

I would particularly like a check on my pronouns. Also the word "pella," which I found in Namárië--did I use it right?

>>> your pronouns look fine to me, as does the use of pella
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Post RE: Poetry
on: July 05, 2004 10:18
Hi again Celebrian! Most of my comments here are rather suggestions than corrections, so see what you think about them:

A Aran Atanion, atan Númeno,
O King of Men, man of the West,

>>> Maybe "nér"? Or do you want to emphasize his race by using atan again?

Mahtar tulca ar linta roquen,
Strong warrior and swift rider,

>>> the position of the adjectives is poetic license, I guess? I'd probably use the same word order for both as it's within the same phrase

i rámar rielyassë queter
the wings on your crown say

>>> quetir

úmel rucë melë i elen sinyeva;
You did not fear to love the evening star;

>>> wouldn't it be nice to use undómiel?

I elen sinyeva úmë or elyë.
(Even) the evening star was not above you.

>>> it seems to me that "or" is "above, over" in a very literal sense... so maybe "acca háya..." (too distant for you)? Or "too high"?

Ai ilyë atani nar ve elyë,
If all men were like you,

>>>possibly "ner" (past tense) instead?

I'm not quite sure of my use of "if": In English or Latin, you would use the subjunctive on the verbs after it, but I don't know any such thing in Quenya, so I just used the simple present. More literally, instead of, "If all men were like you, we would...," I said, "If all men are like you, we will..." I doubt it's right, but I do not know how to do it better. Anyone?

>>>Sadly, the attestation of "ai", or rather "aiquen", translated "if anybody, whoever" doesn't give any clues, as it's just an isolated word without the context of a phrase. There doesn't seem to be any information on a Quenya subjunctive*, so I'd use the indicative, just like you did. Actually, in my first language, Swedish, we almost always use indicative (past tense) nowadays, even though subjunctives do exist.

* Derdzinski has some thoughts on the subjunctive in Sindarin on his site (www.elvish.org/gwaith), so I wouldn't rule out the possibility that his article on Quenya grammar (currently under construction) might contain some ideas on how this might be treated in Quenya.
Celebrian_Kementari
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Post RE: Poetry
on: July 06, 2004 09:05
Two questions:

1. Any idea on what "Andreth" would be in Quenya? I'm not even quite sure what it means. I think the And- part means "West" and not "long" but I'm not sure. As for -reth, I take it that it's a feminine ending??

2. I thought Undómiel was Sindarin. Is it Quenya, then? And how does it come out to mean Evenstar?

As for using "atan," I was sort of translating "Dúnadan." So yes, I did want to emphasise that he was human. Now is "ner" for past tense of "nar" attested? That verb has always been a great trouble for me, because it's only attested in a very few forms.
Lambengolmo
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Post RE: Poetry
on: July 06, 2004 11:49
Undómiel is a compound of undómë "evening twilight" and él "star" (a short varient of elen)

The past tense form né is inferred from something Christopher Gilson said when he was theorising on the nature of the Quenyapast tense. I quote:

The preterite of the verb 'to be' is not given in QL, but this tense-form is listed for many verbs, and frequently identified as such. The Qenya preterite has a variety of formations, but one of the familiar types is seen in kanda- 'blaze', pret. kandane... It is possible that forms like kanda-ne actually arose as a construction with the verb-stem plus a form of the verb 'to be', i.e. that a meaning like 'blazed' derived syntactically as in English phrases like 'was blazing' or 'did blaze', with an originally tenseless form of the stem kanda- '(to) blaze, blazing' combined with the past tense expressed in the ending -ne 'was'... The present tense of the verb 'to be' is given in QL as ná 'it is'...and if the preterite is né or ne, there would be a parallel with certain other verbs where the present vs. preterite is marked solely by a change of -a to -e, as in panta- 'open, unfold, spread', pret. pante, or sanga- 'pack tight', pret. sange.
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