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theVoiceofSauron
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Post What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 19, 2002 11:51
yes that's right...''what would Tolkien think?' about the movie, that is...I really have no clue at the moment I just want to hear your thoughts.

[Edited on 11/14/2002 by Elerrina]
Scothia
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 19, 2002 12:21
Well, if he had any complaining to do I'd have one word for him: Bakshi. Then I'd ask him why he ever sold the movie rights in the first place.

Oh, wait... that's *after* I bowed before him and kissed his Oxford ring and shined his shoes and took out his trash and did up the dishes and scooped up after his little dogs...
Gilraen
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 19, 2002 02:09
I'm not sure what he'd think. I think he'd catch the subtleties of the characters' character (like Merry taking charge or being in the lead, like in the Ford scene) better than alot of people would, and that he'd appreciate that. I don't know if he'd take kindly to all the "creative liberties" PJ employed or not, but I think he's appreciate PJ's devotion to th books overall.
Elerrina
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 19, 2002 02:52
There used to be a thread concerning this... but it was either deleted or elsewhere. Oh, well...

Tolkien was well known to be very anti-Hollywood, but... I would like to at least think he'd have been open-minded about how it all is coming out in the films. And the production is not done in the Hollywood style... perhaps he would not have been intolerant. So I don't think he's turning over in his grave, and WE all love it inspite of its faults! :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart: :heart:
Trignifty
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 19, 2002 07:12
Hmm....he'd wonder where in hell Glorfindel went and why there was no funny man in yellow.
Scothia
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 19, 2002 08:00
Hmm....he'd wonder where in hell Glorfindel went and why there was no funny man in yellow.


And we could ask him what's the deal with Glorfindel being killed in battle and then showing up in FotR 10,000 years later, and where that funny man in yellow came from anyway.
Trignifty
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 19, 2002 08:18
And we could ask him what's the deal with Glorfindel being killed in battle and then showing up in FotR 10,000 years later, and where that funny man in yellow came from anyway.



Amen to that Scothia!!
Celebriloth
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 20, 2002 02:42
I´m afraid he wouldn´t be too pleased

In "The Letters of Tolkien" I remember reading a letter, that ofcource I can´t find right now, where he was talking about another film that was being made og LOTR. And he was not pleased at all!!. He was talking about changesbeing made to the story, small changes from what I could see, but he hated them and found them rediculous. So I really don´t think we would like to hear his oppinion on our beloved movie. Just think about how he hated the idea of making the book in three volumes instead of one.
I guess he was a bit like an elf, didn´t like changes at all.
Parmadur
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 20, 2002 03:41
If there's one thing that he would like about the film, it'd be the amazing reaction to it. So many people loved it that they ran to the nearest bookstore to buy the books - some people who hadn't even known about Tolkien before. I don't think he would have minded Bombadil's absence too much (as he didn't have much of a clue himself what Bombadil's purpose was). He probably would have missed Glorfindel just a bit. I mean, he did go through all of that trouble tying loose ends together with that character and to have him not be in either the Bakshi movie or PJ's might have been a disappointment.

I wonder what he'd think of this whole Figwit craze...

While I don't think he would like the changes that were made to the storyline itself, I do, however, believe that he would love how well the actors worked with his characters, Ian McKellen and Sean Bean especially.

And, one last thing - I think he would have loved the soundtrack.

[Edited on 20/8/2002 by Parmadur]
Aowyn
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 20, 2002 04:20
I think that he'd be unhappy with someone else interpreting his work and worry himself endlessly about what was going on with the film. This is just a general idea I get from reading his biography and letters.

[Edited on 8/20/2002 by Aowyn]
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 20, 2002 09:01
well, from what I know of the Professor, I'd say he'd hate it

and what he'd hate even more, are the crazy fangirls and the slash fiction

well... good thing the Professor ain't around to see it...
Aowyn
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 20, 2002 09:46
well... good thing the Professor ain't around to see it...

Yes...I envision him passed out cold, with his son patting him on the cheek trying to wake him up...
Scothia
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 20, 2002 10:31
May I please remind everyone here (and you are all wonderful!) worried about how the good Professor would go into apoplexy over the movie, of one teeny-weeny, yet far from insignificant fact:

He didn't have to sell the rights.
He didn't have to sell the rights.
He didn't have to sell the rights.

Yes, that's correct. Why should he get bent because changes were made? Changes are always, always, always made to books redone as movies. I don't believe a man as intelligent as JRRT would have been ignorant of that.

He sold the rights.

If he was so hard-pressed to allow anyone to touch his work, why didn't he refuse to sell, and put a clause in his will that his heirs couldn't either?

Just wondering.

Meanwhile, back to watching the DVD again.
Aowyn
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 20, 2002 03:52
Well, I wouldn't really say that I'm worried about whether he'd like it or not-- I'm not.
I'm saying he wouldn't. But that's not gonna keep me awake at night!
Elerrina
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 20, 2002 05:36
May I please remind everyone here (and you are all wonderful!) worried about how the good Professor would go into apoplexy over the movie, of one teeny-weeny, yet far from insignificant fact:

He didn't have to sell the rights.---Scothia

Ahhh... fear not, Scothia... it's all just discussion. That is what the threads are all about: your opinion & other people's opinions, right?

Mine happens to be: I think I heard that JRRT sold the rights because he needed the money. I prefer to think that the "some other power" made it happen just the way it did because it was intended to be that way... this way, actually. A wonderful movie and all of us... :love: :heart: :love:
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 21, 2002 04:45
May I please remind everyone here (and you are all wonderful!) worried about how the good Professor would go into apoplexy over the movie, of one teeny-weeny, yet far from insignificant fact:

He didn't have to sell the rights.
He didn't have to sell the rights.
He didn't have to sell the rights.

Yes, that's correct. Why should he get bent because changes were made? Changes are always, always, always made to books redone as movies. I don't believe a man as intelligent as JRRT would have been ignorant of that.

He sold the rights.

If he was so hard-pressed to allow anyone to touch his work, why didn't he refuse to sell, and put a clause in his will that his heirs couldn't either?

Just wondering.



well, I remember reading an article about his selling the rights to his books, and it appeared Tolkien did it under great pressure of his publicist... which would make sense, because they wanted to milk the cow as much as they could...
Untidy
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 21, 2002 07:53
Hm, I actually think he would like the movie for what it is: another interpretation of his work.

I reckon he would be able to overlook the changes (though he would not be happy about them, of course), as he must know a film can never have all the depth or insight of such an immensly complex and long book.

I mean, the whole film is just ONE interpretation of a book read by millions and millions of people.

He knows every single person that has ever read LotR has a different view of certain elements, and I believe he did not want all his readers to have the same (and thus only one) firm idea of Middle-earth, Frodo, Gandalf etc. in their heads, no matter how precisely he constructed everything (history, languages etc.).

There, those were my two cents.

Greetings!
Elerrina
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 21, 2002 08:37
I reckon he would be able to overlook the changes (though he would not be happy about them, of course), as he must know a film can never have all the depth or insight of such an immensly complex and long book.--- Untidy

Nicely said, Untidy!!

And I agree... we also should remember that Tolkien himself had many different versions of the story... in fact, I would dare say he never stopped changing things until LOTR was published in a 'final' version. He was a very creative person and, even after that, he continued inventing and changing things. Otherwise we wouldn't have The Book of Lost Tales, 1 & 2, would we?
Scothia
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 22, 2002 02:10
I've been a little testy because of a couple of friends who are Tolkien Fundamentalists. They don't want one jot or tittle messed with from the Original Translations (I'm only being just a tad hyperbolic here.) Anyhow, I'm having an email exchange with one of them who just detests the movie. He never would see it while it was in the theaters, and waited till it came out on VHS, which was his only viewing. Of course, his whole attitude was completely skewed before he even watched i--he wanted to hate it.

So I 'm afraid I was reacting to him as much as anyone here when I wrote the "He didn't have to sell the rights" post above. I apologize if I sounded harsh. I'm just a little bugged, that's all.
*Earenia*
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 22, 2002 02:17
Can i chill here??
Trignifty
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 22, 2002 07:14
He never would see it while it was in the theaters, and waited till it came out on VHS, which was his only viewing. Of course, his whole attitude was completely skewed before he even watched i--he wanted to hate it.


To a certain extent, I was that way too, actually. Mainly because in the vast history of book to movie translations...veeeery few have turned out well. So I was worried. I walked in expecting to hate it, but I tried to keep to an otherwise unbiased state...and I walked out loving it..and went back to see it in theaters six more times...so I think JRRT should be proud that his masterpiece translated into film SO well...yeah, we all know there are things we don't like and wish we could cut out, but overall it's the best book-to-film translation I've ever seen. Except maybe Silence of the Lambs
Aowyn
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 23, 2002 02:02
That's a shame...almost sounds like he's determined to dislike it!.....as much as we like to dissect the movie here and argue over this and that and point out mistakes here and there, I think it's done out of goodnatured love (and maybe a desire to kill time while we eagerly await the next movie)...and I think you'll find that the majority of Tolkien fans out there are pretty satisfied with it..at least the ones I've talked to ..and that's a lot.

[Edited on 8/23/2002 by Aowyn]
Scothia
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: August 23, 2002 10:37
You will never meet anyone as in love with Tolkien's works as my husband Patrick. When I first met him, he was literally living in a lean-to in Vermont, eating oatmeal. His only possessions were a hunting knife, a banjo, a small backpack of essentials, and a copy of the Trilogy. He'd put the poems in the books to music and would play them for me. ("...there grows a different green...")

I'd read LotR once before we met, but it was because of him--whom all his friends called Strider!--that I came to a real fiery passion for Middle-earth. That was many years ago, and the passion remains in us both.

Having said that, Patrick still remains one of the most Tolkien-knowledgable people anywhere. He can recite entire passages and lineages. He knows arcane trivia from the Silmarillion, which he is reading now for the umpteenth time. He can discuss Tolkien like some men discuss sports (how happy I am that he loves LotR instead of football!) The changes in the movie annoy him somewhat; but he declared that PJ stayed true to the heart and soul of LotR, if not the letter.

High praise, I'd say.
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: October 07, 2002 11:08
Your husband is re-reading the Silmarillion?
It took me a lot of effort to get through it the first time.

As a point interest that falls into this thread, JRRT has a living (in 1996) son 'David' in a retirement home in Oxford (I think I had his address somewhere). Has there been any coment on him?
He was a priest in Stoke-on-Trent UK for many years in Hartzhill church, the road next to it is now called Tolkien Way.
Celebriloth
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: October 08, 2002 01:36
Actually I wrote to the Tolkien Society to hear their version on what the old Professor might have thought. I recieved a very nice E-mail that said that the Society as such had no official stand-point on this. But they told me that Tolkien once saw a stage performance of the Hobbit and whenever they followed the book to the letter he was as happy as can be, but when they strayed but a little, he was very upset.

And why not, the man spend 13 years writing that book, and ofcourse he would not like it to be changed one bit. An artist never would. Just imagine: Great book you wrote there professor, we will just change this, this and that... lol.

Anyway, even though I've been labled a purist by some, I sure am happy he did sell the rights, cause I love this film:love::love:
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: October 08, 2002 04:04
Tolkien? He must be doubling up with pain in his grave >_<
Aine
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: February 20, 2003 09:25
May I please remind everyone here (and you are all wonderful!) worried about how the good Professor would go into apoplexy over the movie, of one teeny-weeny, yet far from insignificant fact:

He didn't have to sell the rights.
He didn't have to sell the rights.
He didn't have to sell the rights.

Yes, that's correct. Why should he get bent because changes were made? Changes are always, always, always made to books redone as movies. I don't believe a man as intelligent as JRRT would have been ignorant of that.

He sold the rights.

If he was so hard-pressed to allow anyone to touch his work, why didn't he refuse to sell, and put a clause in his will that his heirs couldn't either?

Just wondering.

Meanwhile, back to watching the DVD again.


You're right! But who says Tolkien wouldn't have liked the movies? Maybe he would, despite of the changes... and changes HAVE to be made if you want to make three books, together 1500+ pages, into 9 hours of film. I guess we'll never know

Anyway, it's
Keterai
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: February 20, 2003 05:56
I don't think that Tolkien would be very happy with the way some things are in the films. But with other parts I think he would be happy with.

But I'm not him...so I really can't tell. From the work that he put into the books I don't think he would be to pleased with combining events....taking them out I don't think would be as bothersome.
rhia
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: February 20, 2003 07:35
Tolkein would probably not be very happy with the movies. We're talking about a man who didn't want publishers to edit his work!

But I think that the movies are a wonderful interpritation and a way for a broader audience to appreciate the amazing world he created
AragornEllessar
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: February 22, 2003 06:35
I don't really know what he would think but I know that if I had writen that book, I would be pretty pleased with the movie.
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: February 23, 2003 03:55
PJ's movies are absolutely amazing and I know I'm very pleased with them. There are a few alterations I don't think Tolkien would have liked though... okay okay so this is just my humble opinion and its probably slightly biased seeing as I strongly dislike Arwen in the movies but I don't think he would reeeally have liked the way her character was changed. (Because it was... sort of...) In FOTR, with her saving Frodo from the ringwraiths, oh I don't know I just thought that was sort of wrong and he might not like it... Arwen in the books always seemed to me to resemble a sort of classic "fairytale" princess, she spent a lot of time just sitting around and being beautiful. I don't actually know anyone who liked her pointless, slushy love scenes with Aragorn in TTT, so I doubt Tolkien would think much of it
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: February 23, 2003 05:23
Right now I don't see a whole lot of destinction between Eowyn and Arwen, which was NOT how Tolkien meant it to be. I think he would be very dissapointed in that way.

On the other hand, I think he would enjoy the light heartedness of the hobbits, that occasionally peeks its head out. If you read, "Return of the Shadow" which is the first version on FotR, you will see Bingo and Odo having a charming conversation about upstairs rooms...Bingo wants to eat up there someday, but Odo protests he'd have to carry the food all the way up, then the dishes all the way down. Bingo says no, he will have wooden dishes, and toss them out the window. That's how light hearted the hobbits can be...the movie had a few good parts. In the extended DVD the Green Dragon scene is great.

I think he would like it, but still see and feel the flaws.
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: May 07, 2003 03:25
I think that Tolkien would have had mixed feelings about it. I think that he would have been very pleased with FOTR, but I don't know about TTT. I think he would have been very disapointed in Faramir first of all. Faramir's charactor was suppost to be wiser than Boromir, but in TTT they made him be selfish and weak to temptation which is NOT the way he would have wanted him. Second, he would be disappointed in the ents for at first not wanting to do anything about Saruman. Third, I think he would have been disapointed in Legolas. Legolas in the film was great, but he would have been very upset on how some people make try to make him look like a sissy.
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: May 08, 2003 05:41
I think he would loathe and detest every change that was made, and at the same time be delighted with each bit of minute detail and careful thought that has gone into it. He clearly doesn't like changes to his work, understandably, but I think he would be pleased with the overall feel of the film, and that it has brought LOTR to so many more people: it's nearer than ever to being the widely-acknowledged English mythic pre-history he intended it to be.
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: May 10, 2003 09:47
Well, on the one hand, I think Tolkien would be very pleased that so many more people have taken to the reading of his books, and furthered their knowledge of other histories that support the enjoyment of LOTR.

But I don't think he would be too thrilled with all the merchandise or fan sites that have come to be .... He does not seem to be one to have enjoyed being a celebrity at all...rather wanting to be left alone to create more literature or research out more details for whatever project he would be working on at the moment.

Its hard to imagine his response to the films....He would need to be a man of our times to comprehend the technology...and the reasons why film makers do what they do....
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