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Niennafefalas
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: May 12, 2003 07:04
Apparently his family were all against it when it was suggested, and they dissowned the one who helped the film company, i dont know if all of this is true though, also i think they shouldnt have changed so much, the film would be bad enough, (please note, i have nothing big against the film myself, just sticking up for tolkien)
Lórellin
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: May 12, 2003 12:05
I have to go with the half that is not to sure that he would like these films...as said already, this was a man that hated the idea of anyone else editing his work; I don't think he would be happy with the changes at all, .. I mean he never wanted people to talk elvish either,..so why then create a language... but then again he did sell the right, and cos of that we have this great films, and after all he is no longer among the living so we can only keep on guessing about would he like or not these films.
Nevthónîel
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: May 29, 2003 03:31
Hm. I guess he would be both proud and surprised by all the people who has discovered Middle-Earth because of the movies. But - what he would think of the movie is something different. There's alot of changes, and I think Tolkien wouldn't like Arwens capacity to show up everywhere you least want to.
Gilwen_the_Sorceress
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: January 18, 2004 03:44
No, absolutely no, nobody can be pleased with that at all.
OK, they have many benefits, but

I am an autor, someone else takes my masterpiece, change it and make it famous, and get the credits for all that (Unfortunately for normal people yes they think movies are *better* than books), characters are changed to the eyes of that normal audience and that´s why we discuss a lot about this, and feel dissapointed for that. Anyway.
Actually, I have read he refused to make a movie of LOTR with The Beatles, and with Disney, Mmmmm.

Look how many times we have discussed with ignorants, how many quarrels in this boards for the difference between what books says and what movies shows, and look, we ,despective called BOOKIES, for some people, defend what Tolkien said,and we are not Tolkien
Err, anyway, no ignorant is in this board to read this and understand. Maybe we´re talking to the walls


[Edited on 18/1/2004 by Gilwen_the_Sorceress]
Rethehare
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: January 18, 2004 05:07
I think that Tolkien wouldn't be happy about the changes made in plot and chareacters, but maybe he would understand their necessity, and forgive PJ if only because of amount of work he and the team put in making Middle Earth as real as possible. What, I think, Tolkien would hate and not forgive are all LotR advertisements, pinball-machines, and "fashion" shows.
There is great difference if somebody is doing his best to translate your masterpiece into another medium, and when somebody is trying to sell his products using your fame.
Eden_of_the_WoodlandRealm
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: January 21, 2004 07:04
I think he would be mostly amazed by all the effects and detail in the films. These things have only become available in the last few years. My two pence.
RosieT
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: February 07, 2004 01:37
I think that Tolkien would have had mixed feelings about it. I think that he would have been very pleased with FOTR, but I don't know about TTT. I think he would have been very disapointed in Faramir first of all. Faramir's charactor was suppost to be wiser than Boromir, but in TTT they made him be selfish and weak to temptation which is NOT the way he would have wanted him.


I think he might have been disappointed in the changes made to Faramir - but not because of the reasons you say. I don't think the film Faramir was in any way weak or selfish. Just the opposite.
Puppet_Master
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: February 07, 2004 05:38
Tolkien would be very upset albout this thing of some one else changing what he/she doesn´t like of what he created, changing his characters, for better or for wrost.:evil::evil:

He´s the autor, the books are the true story not the movies
RosieT
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: February 07, 2004 06:15
I don't really disagree with what you say.

The books are the true story because the story and the characters belong to Tolkien only.

And the books will always be better than the films. But PJ has done a good job bringing the tale to the big screen. It was considered an impossible task, and I think it would have been impossible to remain totally true to the books.

So all we can do is comment on the films almost as a separate creation, which they are really.
Eruantalincë
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: February 07, 2004 08:48
Never read that the producers claimed that the movies were the true storiy. Only an interpretation of a wonderful book.

I think the professor would have mixed feelings. Maybe delighted whenever he saw/heard that details lines were directly taken from the books, but probably dissapointed about Helm's Deep. But then, maybe he would understand that it would almost be impossible to give the Elves their 'own' battle in the movies, and he might accept that they still are part of it. I only wonder what he would think about the Gollum-character performed by Andy Serkis.
EruanwenSaeriel
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: April 14, 2004 07:42
I have never, ever seen a series of movies that respected the original story so much. Not only the writing (languages, etc.), but the sets, costumes, armour, special effects - attention to detail re languages - all of it.

I think Tolkien would have squirmed regarding the Legolas uber-elf stuff, but remember, the movies are supposed to entertain a wide assortment of movie-goers and these scenes (as well as the comic stuff with Merry and Pippin and Legolas and Gimli) that are directed toward a particular audience - I would like to think that JRR would have understood in the end.


[Edited on 19/8/2004 by EruanwenSaeriel]
ABagginsOfTheShire
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: April 22, 2005 01:09
Okay, I'm gonna revive this thread, I think it's intersting...

Well, I hope Tolkien would have been proud! The LotR movies have attracted a wide fan-base, appeal to all ages, have majorly boosted the sales of his books (and so now people are enjoying them more then ever)!

Okay, so he might have squirmed at the cracks at Leggy's hair, Aragorn's odour, Eowyn's stew, etc, etc... but hey, all in all, PJ stayed good and true to the books.
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: April 23, 2005 10:53
I know that I would be upset if those were my books. Then again, I don't think anything is better than the LOTR books!
Kadaveri
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: April 23, 2005 11:19
From reading Tolkien's words in Letter 210 I can't help but think he would have hated them. He gets so angry at small changes such as the Hobbits eating ridiculously long sandwiches and there being flags at Bilbo's birthday party. Imagine what he would have thought about Elves at Helm's Deep, Sam leaving Frodo, Gandalf fighting a super-sized ET on fire, with horns, wings and a tail instead of a Balrog, Army of the Dead coming to Minas Tirith, Faramir's character being seriously messed up. He would have hated them.

But he's no longer amongst us so I don't think it's worth worrying about too much. I doubt Peter Jackson will have trouble sleeping at night with all the money and awards he got. Tis a bit of a shame though.
Shadow_fax
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: April 23, 2005 02:25

But he's no longer amongst us so I don't think it's worth worrying about too much. I doubt Peter Jackson will have trouble sleeping at night with all the money and awards he got. Tis a bit of a shame though.



I honestly cannot believe that Peter Jackson made this trilogy just for the money! He has been an ardent fan of the books since he was in his teens. Why shouldn't he have been the one to take on the enormous task of bringing this marvellous book to the screen? He certainly worked extremely hard over the years of filming. He was totally committed to the project, and what we have as a result are three spectacular and stunning films! The awards he and the team were given were thoroughly and well deserved! Yes, he made changes, but he is Peter Jackson, not Professor Tolkien. It would be impossible for him to totally connect with Tolkien's mind. PJ has given us an adaptation of the books. As Films they are a masterpiece in their own right and I am so proud that my all time favourite book has been put onto the big screen - a visual delight imho.
We do not have the right to say that Tolkien would have hated what PJ has done. He is no longer alive. We will never know what he would have thought. All we have to go on is Tolkien's letters. And look what he was presented with in his lifetime! We have:

1. Zimmerman wrote his script some 4 years after the publication of LotR, with a floating Faramir (!), many eagles, one named Radagast (!), Rivendell as a 'shimmering forest', a laughing balrog, hobbits 'munching ridiculously long sandwiches'. As Tolkien says, how could an author be expected to be pleased by such silly alterations.
Peter Jackson did not make such pitiful mistakes. However, what PJ is constantly being tried and sentenced for by purists is the changes he made to some of the characters. It has already been said somewhere that the writing team now regret the turn around of character of movie Faramir in hindsight. Art is more subjective than objective. I do not and will not believe that Peter Jackson and his team deliberately distorted the book for their own ends. They are too respectful to do anything like that. I am not a writer or director of movies, none of us are. We should not be so quick to judge. I am sure out of respect for Tolkien and his book, if Tolkien were still alive at the time of making the movies, then the writing team would have consulted the great man himself just as Zimmerman did 50 years ago, and I doubt that the writers of the movies would ignore whatever comments Tolkien would have made to PJ's script.

2. Tolkien was offered a script of a cartoon version of LotR starring the Beatles! Perish the thought! No comment.

The Lord of the Rings was Tolkien's life work, his pride and joy, his masterpiece and he was right to be angst at what was offered to him above. But, if Tolkien did not in any terms want his book to be made into a Film then he would not have sold the Film rights. Tolkien was a man of intelligence and deep rooted principles - he would have refused point blank in ever wanting the book to be brought to screen.

[Edited on 24/4/2005 by Shadow_fax]

[Edited on 24/4/2005 by Shadow_fax]
ABagginsOfTheShire
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: April 23, 2005 05:30
2. Tolkien was offered a script of a cartoon version of LotR starring the Beatles! Perish the thought! No comment.


Lol, exactly. If he gave the go-ahead for for Bakshi, then... well, he might as well have cried with happiness at the PJ LotR movies. At least the hobbits actually looked like hobbits in this version.
Ilfa
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: April 30, 2005 08:26
I think, Tolkien will just be contented...

>>> To think that PJ made the book into real life is so cool for Tolkien and more people who actually don't know about the book yet will be interested in the book...

>>> To think that PJ did alot of difference in the film... I think Tolkien will complain that his work was a little bit ruined with the film... because it's his masterpiece, and it can be really offending if one will change it or something... But what the heck, PJ did a really good job:heart:

Well, that's just my opinion, of course.. I don't know what will be his real reaction...
Morna_Child_of_Eru
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: May 02, 2005 07:46
I think Tolkien would like what is said by Sam about stories, since he (Tolkien) said he was trying to create just the type of story Sam was talking about (and if I may say so, he succeeded).

He prolly wouldn't like some of PJ's more aggressive character/plot decisions, such as Faramir and Frodo sending Sam away (though I personally think those are needed to keep tension up in the films). I hope he'd think the message stayed the same, but I dunno.

[Edited on 2/5/2005 by Morna_Child_of_Eru]
IloveFrodoBaggins
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: December 19, 2005 06:20
I think Professor Tolkien would dislike some scenes in the movies for example: The changes in Faramir. Faramir was noble and compassionate in the books, but I think PJ ruined him in the movies at the beginning by putting him greedy about Frodo's ring, but at the end he was willing to help Frodo and Sam. Another scene: Frodo sending Sam away, it's simply horrible. Frodo and Sam shared a brotherly love that no one could broke. I know PJ did it because to add more drama and tension into the plot, but the book have enough drama, doesn't it?.
findecanocalaelen
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: December 25, 2005 02:55
Hi i want to know what elfish arwen and legolas spoke in the movie
Mara
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: December 26, 2005 09:36
There is an elvish forum on the site here for you to ask about the languages
Sweet~Athelas
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Post RE: What Would Tolkien Think?
on: December 26, 2005 01:39
I think it is impossible to try and imagine how Tolkien would respond to the films, but I know that if I were Tolkien I would delight in the tiniest little detail interpeted onto the screen, but I would in the same way fume about any changes. I think he would undertand that the films where just an adaptation of his works, though.
mírfain
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Post What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:12
What do you think Tolkien would have liked and hated about PJ's films? and why?

I think that Tolkien wouldn't have liked that some of the characters are portraited differently in the films than they were in the books.(faramir++) I think that he wouldn't like that, because he created them the way that he wanted them to be, and when they were changed, they kind of weren't the same persons any more...(hope someone understands... I'm not good at explaining things...)


(ps: sorry if there's already a thread like this...)
Gilwen_the_Sorceress
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:12
*sigh* This is a movie forum
I see, not so much answer in this point, everybody here loves jackson and the movies, not exactly the true Tolkien story.

First, with Tolkien, there would not be any movies
Second, he would be, indeed totally dissapointed with changes in his characters, in this case Filmamir (Denethor, Haldir, Arwen) , but , Filmamir, dissapointed ...because he felt was more empathy with his book Faramir.
And the movie turned Faramir into Boromir, made of him a corrupted human for the ring etc.

For sure, he would be disagree with the movies
i_luv_orlando_b
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:14
I'm sure he would have been disappointed about some things, but I'm sure he would have LOVED a lot of things. Like the wonderful digital effects, and the beautiful music, and the wonderful acting by most of the actors, esp. Elijah and Orlando. I think Sean Bean and John Rhys Davies did very well as well. But I think he would have been disappointed in the things that have been taken out of the film such as Tom Bonbadil and the blindfolding going into Lothlorien. And how there is like nothing about Aragorn in ROTK...there is way too much Gandalf in ROTK.
Eruantalincë
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:16
I see, not so much answer in this point, everybody here loves jackson and the movies, not exactly the true Tolkien story.
Not quite everbody, because there are some people around who do not like the movies.

However, many are willing to see books and movies separate. When one loves the books, it is not a fact that therefore the movies cannot be appriciated.

About the original questions: I do not know and I cannot ask him anymore. There might be ofcourse objections from Tolkien. But I cannot tell if he would dislike the movies in total.
Woodlandelfgirl87
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:17
I think he would like some things about the movies and then... some things he wouldn't like.

I agree with ~*Nani*~ in that he would like Ian McKellen and Christopher Lee- I think they portrayed their characters wonderfully. I thouht all the actors portrayed their characters well, even David Wenham (He played PJ's Faramir, not Tolkien's well)

I think he would have liked the sets because they were quite beautiful (especially the Shire and Rivendell)

But then I think he wouldn't have liked the fact that Arwen became Glorfindel. I personally liked that, but when I first saw the movie I was a little shocked, but I came to like it.

So much of the beginning of FotR was changed like Tom Bombadil. I don't think he would have liked that.

Then they got rid of the Scouring of the Shire. I think he would be quite angry about that as well.
LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:18
Disagreeing with the people that posted above, I think Tolkien would have understood that changes needed to be made to adapt the books into a movie. If I remember correctly, I think he sold the film rights when he was alive, but saw a (horrible) script and hated it. But for the most part, I think he would have been satisfied with PJ's adaptation.
NiennaAlcarin
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:18
I'm not too sure, but... I remember watching something, Charlie Rose, I think it was, where PJ said that J.R.R Tolkien had always kind of 'HATED' technology! His least favourite item was the tractor, if I'm not too mistaken. :rolling: He probably, if he were still alive, today, would not be too happy about the visual effects, the CG, and stuff..., and obviously the exclusion of many parts, Yes Many! I hope he would like the script, though, 'cause I do. lol... But, he might actually be OK with the scripts, you never know! I obviusly have no idea if he'd be fond of the acting, but I am of that too. Especially of Sir Ian Mckellen's! He's Frikin' GREAT, and he didn't even need to audition, supossedly.

Well, must be going. Ta-Ta.

Grace

[Edited on 6/22/2004 by NiennaAlcarin]
Nerwin_Artanis
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:19
Tolkien once said of making his books into films, "Give me money or give me art." Were he miraculously still alive today, he would have been making a fortune off of these films. He didn't allow the Beatles to make their own version of The Lord of the Rings, and rightfully so...but it's a much harder question what he would have thought of Peter Jackson's ovre.

My own educated opinion is that he would both like and dislike the films. The Fellowship of the Ring would be easiest to swallow, just as it is with the fans. I honestly don't think the Professor would have been upset by the removal of Tom Bombadil, as he himself admitted the segment is a bit superfluous. On the other hand, I think he would have been displeased with the radioactive Galadriel and the blatant disregard for his description of Lothlorien (how hard is it to understand silver tree bark, golden leaves, sunlight and soft grass, anyway?). Probably much of his disappointment would lie in the sets and designs, because he obviously had a very clear picture of what he imagined the locations to look like, as is evident in his detailed descriptions in the books. Some of them, perhaps the Shire, Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul and Orthanc, which are the most literally translated and lavishly built, would please him, while I'm quite sure Lorien and Edoras would not.

I think he would have generally been impressed by the main actors, but not so much the extras. The Elves all look like a bunch of emaciated super models, which is not in keeping with the robust Elves of Tolkien's novels, and their clothes tend to be far too lavish for practicality. It goes without saying that the changes made to Faramir, Arwen and Theoden wouldn't have pleased him. It's one thing to delete unimportant passages or alter dialogue, but it's another thing entirely to change a character from its intended personality.

This is all speculation, however. I think a lot of us would be surprised and what he'd like and what he wouldn't. But unless there are cinemas in heaven, we may never know.



Vale_Undomiel
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:34
Christopher Lee had seen some times Tolkien in his pub but never went to talk to him cos he felt too shy but he said he wrote to him often.
Also I think the only one who didnt need to audition was Viggo cos they knew he had to be him to play Aragorn after the big mistake of casting Townsend.

now,to go back to the main topic...i read Tolkien's letters and know that he was in favour of making films out of the books but only if the films were respectful to the books...i both love the films and hte books as two separate things but i think Tolkien wouldnt have liked some (many??) of the changes in them...but i dont think he'd have disliked the way Arwen has been portraied...after all to him she was an important character, he only didnt have enough time to develop her story in the book.
as for hte dialogues i think he'd have loved them esp cos they are taken directly from the book adn when they are not they are soo similar to his style.
_LadyEowyn_
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:35
Probably much of his disappointment would lie in the sets and designs, because he obviously had a very clear picture of what he imagined the locations to look like, as is evident in his detailed descriptions in the books. Some of them, perhaps the Shire, Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul and Orthanc, which are the most literally translated and lavishly built, would please him, while I'm quite sure Lorien and Edoras would not.


Actually, nearly all of the main sets were taken from drawings Tolkien did himself, (apart from Lorien), so I don't think he'd really have a problem with them. What I think he wouldn't like is the fact they bent some of the storylines needlessly, ie; Aragorn falling off that cliff, Frodo sending Sam away, the Elves coming to Helm's Deep, instead of the Dunadain. I don't think he would have been angry with the LotR films overall, because they did get the message across that Tolkien was trying to get across which is the "no victory without sacrifice" theme, and also friendship, love, hope and death.

[Edited on 16/8/2004 by _LadyEowyn_]
EruanwenSaeriel
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:36
It might not have been Tolkien's vision of Middle Earth but with very few exceptions, it was sure mine. When I saw Hobbiton for the first time, I said to myself, "Yes, that is what it should look like." No one has mentioned the great hall Meduseld in the Kingdom of Rohan. I thought it was EXACTLY like the book described. I wonder if JRR would have felt the same - I would like to think he would appreciate the dedication and careful attention to detail even if it didn't quite fit his personal vision. Every one of us has their own vision of the world and th characters.
Shadow_fax
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:36
If Tolkien had been alive today I would like to believe that PJ, Philippa and Fran being the writers would consult the Professor closely regarding the storyline and hopefully if Tolkien did not like or disagreed with some aspects of the portrayal he would give a gentle nudge to them and lead them in the right direction.....that would be awesome! The Films would then be an absolute Masterpiece. I am not a purist, I see the Films and Book separately, the book being the true masterpiece and PJ's adaptation an almost masterpiece! I love them both.

The fact that Professor Tolkien sold the Film rights shows that he did not object to his epic book being brought to the screen and I am thankful for that. But in his lifetime all he saw really was the idea of the Beatles cartoon and rightly so hated the idea. Perish the thought if that project had of come to light .

[Edited on 9/1/2005 by Shadow_fax]
foolofatook~
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Post RE: What would Tolkien have thought about the films?
on: August 11, 2014 12:37
Sir Tolkien? Well, he probably would have liked and disliked them for several reasons:

"Likeables": The way the movies are portrayed is close to "top notch" detail of how it's described in the books. The settings, characters, and plot make it all believable from story to glory (film). The actors Peter Jackson picked out for the films are perfecto in portraying how the characters would actually look, with a few minor "differences". That's how I feel about it anyway. I understand that each movie would probably be at least a year long if they hadn't edited out alot of things/parts, but I think we all (including Mr. Tolkien) would have loved to see the movies in "full finish", having them (the films) include everything from the books.

"Unlikeables": The "unlikeables" would probably be some of the things mirfain said. Different character portrations, people being "cut out", etc... For example: We all wish Tom Bombadil had been put in. Or, perhaps PJ made Pippin be a little more "playful" than he is portrayed in the books (I thought he was a just a pinch more outgoing and talkative in the books than he was in the movies, but that's just my opinion.). But hey, Mr. Jackson did a great job and we should all be proud that the movies were made, at the least.
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