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gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: July 25, 2003 07:39
Suilad! Here's another poem! I had do to something while CofE was down! I've already gotten some comments/corrections from Iavas, but I wanted to share it anyway!

A quick note: This one I thought up in Sindarin first!!! :dizzy:

Gwendeth

Glîr Meleth
Love Song

Gerin 'ell vi guren!
I have joy in my heart!

Gerich veleth nín dhaerwain.
You have my greatest love.

Ir le gerin vi rainc nín,
When I hold you in my arms,

beditham nan giliath;
we will go to the stars;

Reviatham bo i rovail e-meleth vín.
We will fly on the wings of our love.


Lasto bith nín, melethron nín.
Listen to my words, my lover.

Lasto lammen.
Listen to my voice.

Le linnathon 'lîr meleth.
I will sing you a love song.

Men cenitha na guil veren.
It will call us to a joyous life.

Tegitha ammen 'ell arnediad.
It will bring to us joys unnumbered.


Teithathon eneth lín vi giliath.
I will write your name in the stars.

I galad Anor fîr uin aglar i-chin lín.
The sun's light fades from the glory of your eyes.

Guren blâb anlim ir le mibin;
My heart beats faster when I kiss you;

ir mathon finnel lín, as moe nu lebid nín.
when I touch your hair, it is soft under my fingers.

Helin hin nín a faer nín revia.
I close my eyes and my spirit soars.


Lasto lammen.
Listen to my voice.

Tiro nan giliath.
Look to the stars.

Matho cammen.
Feel my hand.

Revio annin.
Fly with me.

A geritham veleth an-uir.
And we will have love forever.


[Edited on 30/7/2003 by gwendeth]

[Edited on 30/7/2003 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Malinornë
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: July 30, 2003 05:51
Suilad Gwendeth! Writing poems is an excellent way to spend one's time Some ideas for you:

A quick note: This one I thought up in Sindarin first!!!
//Ooooh! *impressed*

Glîr E-Meleth
Love Song
//or just "Glîr Meleth" (just a matter of taste...)

Glîr 'ell vi guren!
I have joy in my heart!
//"I have" would be "gerin"... Or, if you want it to be "A song of joy in my heart", just unlenit "gell"

Reviatham erin rovail e-meleth vín.
We will fly on the wings of our love.
//someone on Elfling suggested that "erin" would only be used with time and that "bo i" would be a better choice for other occasions. I don't remember who said it but it was someone reasonably trustworthy.

Lasto bith nín, seronen.
Listen to my words, my lover.
//"seron" has to do with friendship and liking rather than romance, so "melethron" might be a better word in this context.

Le linnathon glîr e-meleth.
I will sing you a love song.
//or "´lîr meleth" without the genitive article. Notice that "glîr" is the object of "linnathon" and needs to be lenited regardless of how you prefer to express the genitival phrase.

Cenitha ven na guil veren.
It will call us to a joyous life.
//I would place "ven" (accusative) before the verb.

Tegitha ammen 'ill arnediad.
It will bring to us joys unnumbered.
//Perhaps "gell" is an "uncountable" noun that doesn't need to be pluralized?

I galad en-anor fîr uin aglar i-chin lín.
The sun's light fades from the glory of your eyes.
//I´d form the genitive phrase without the article here since it seems to me that words like the sun and moon come very close to proper nouns the way Tolkien uses them. So "I galad anor", or even "I galad Anor".

Guren blâb anlim ir le miben;
My heart beats faster when I kiss you;
//I don´t know anything about the conjugation of mib-, but wouldn't "mibin" seem more likely (as with other i-stems ending in -b)?

Matho cammen.
Feel my hand.
//Just curious... what's the idea behind sometimes using independent possessive pronouns and sometimes endings? Just picking what feels better in each case?
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: July 30, 2003 08:28
Le hannon, Mal! I'll get working on those comments! I have no idea why I used the possessive pronouns as opposed to the verb endings! ARGH! :dizzy:

Probably just what seemed best I guess! Would it be better to have 'lam nín' and 'cam nín'?

The only question I have about 'seron' is that I was 'deliberately' trying to be ambiguous, I think - so it could be either a male or female 'lover'.... "Melethron" and "Melethril" are specific to "male" and "female" lovers... *sigh*


[Edited on 30/7/2003 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: July 31, 2003 03:00
And.... while I'm at it - here's another one!!! I hope I've not made too many mistakes!!! :dizzy:

Also there are DEFINATELY a couple of sentences I know I need help on!!! - So! PLEASE HELP!!!


Coming Home
Tolel na Mar Vín
Coming to Home Ours

* I couldn't think of a way to just say 'coming home' ... "tolel bar" just didn't seem right...

Listen! Do you hear the sound of music?
Lasto! Lastach ‘lîr linnin?
Listen! Do you hear songs [being] sung?

* Since we don't have words for "sound" (at least the way I wanted it interpreted) and "music" I couldn't really even 'reword' it, but hopefully it's ok anyway...

It floats across the sky like leaves on the autumn wind.
Lodar athra i venel sui laiss bo i ‘waew e-lasbelin.
They float across the sky like leaves on the wind in autumn.

* From what I'm getting lately "erin" is to be used mostly of 'time'....??? Otherwise, I'd have used 'erin' instead of 'bo i'...

Listen! Do you hear the sound of harps?
Lasto! Lastach gannol i ngennil?
Listen! Do you hear the playing of the harps?

With silver strings, the harpers weave their melody.
Bo lain vithrin, i thelegain parthar lind rîn.
On threads silver, the harpers compose tune theirs.


Listen! Do you hear the sound of bells?
Lasto! Lastach i nill?
Listen! Do you hear the bells?

Golden-toned and ringing out with joy.
Nellol na ‘ell valthen.
Ringing with joy golden.

* I'm sure this does NOT make sense, really, but ARGH!!! Missing words!!!! HELP!!!


Listen! Do you hear the sound of singing?
Lasto! Lastach i linnad?
Listen! Do you hear the singing?

Voices sweet are raised to the sky.
Lamath velui eriannen am menel.
Voices sweet [are] raised to the sky.


Listen! Do you hear the sound of trumpets?
Lasto! Lastach idh rý?
Listen! Do you hear the sound of trumpets?

* I wasn't sure if I need to have "rym" (trumpets) in this sentence, too... Maybe so since I had 'harps' in the sentence earlier?

Loud and clear they call out joyous greetings.
Brui a lim ed-genir govaded veren.
Loud and clear they call forth [a] greeting joyous.


See! Our ship is approaching the harbor!
Ceno! Cair vín anglennol i lond!
See! Ship ours [is] approaching the harbor!

Look! Our people are waiting to meet us!
Tiro! Gwaith vín darthol suilannad men!
Look! People ours [are] waiting to meet us!


Old friends, long departed; old memories, born anew.
Mellyn vrýn, gwennin io annan; rîn iaur, onnen eden.
Friends long-established, departed long ago; rememberances old, born anew.

Our hearts beat faster as we leave the ship.
Guir vín blebir anlim ir gwannam i cair.
Hearts ours beat faster when we depart the ship.


O Island Fair! O Island Unveiled!
Ai, Tol Vain! Ai, Tol Ú-‘wathrannen!
O, Island Fair! O, Island not-Veiled!

At last, at last! We are home at last!
Na vedui, na vedui! Na vedui, tellim am mar vín.
At last, at last! At last, we have come to home ours.

* I REALLY need help on this last sentence... Would "túliel" be more appropriate in this sense?????


[Edited on 1/8/2003 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Malinornë
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: August 02, 2003 11:07
Suilad Gwendeth! Aníron le peded noeth nín o glîr ´wain lín. Harthon ais le annathar dulu.

Listen! Do you hear the sound of harps?
Lasto! Lastach gannol i ngennil?
Listen! Do you hear the playing of the harps?

//"the playing" is a gerund here, so "i ´annad" (or "in gennil ´annol" - the harps playing... in that case it would be an active participle). in + gennil > in gennil (special cases mutation)

Listen! Do you hear the sound of bells?
Lasto! Lastach i nill?
Listen! Do you hear the bells?

//or you could use "i nelladel" (the ringing of bells)

Voices sweet are raised to the sky.
Lamath velui eriannen am menel.
Voices sweet [are] raised to the sky.

//just pluralize > eriennin

Listen! Do you hear the sound of trumpets?
Lasto! Lastach idh rý?
Listen! Do you hear the sound of trumpets

//Maybe you could use "i romru" (the sound of horns)

Loud and clear they call out joyous greetings.
Brui a lim ed-genir govaded veren.
Loud and clear they call forth [a] greeting joyous
.
//I think you want "suilannad", not "govaded", and I would lenit it as an object of the verb.

Look! Our people are waiting to meet us!
Tiro! Gwaith vín darthol suilannad men!
Look! People ours [are] waiting to meet us!

//And here you want "govaded" (not lenited)...

Old friends, long departed; old memories, born anew.
Mellyn vrýn, gwennin io annan; rîn iaur, onnen eden.
Friends long-established, departed long ago; rememberances old, born anew.

//Plural of "brûn" would be "bruin", I think. Watch the spelling of "anann". You need to pluralize iaur > ioer, onnen > ennin, eden > edin if you want to have plural "remembrances".

Our hearts beat faster as we leave the ship.
Guir vín blebir anlim ir gwannam i cair.
Hearts ours beat faster when we depart the ship.

//You forgot to lenit "cair" after "i"...

At last, at last! We are home at last!
Na vedui, na vedui! Na vedui, tellim am mar vín.
At last, at last! At last, we have come to home ours.
* I REALLY need help on this last sentence... Would "túliel" be more appropriate in this sense?????

//Um... I would use "tellim". Or present (perfective) "telim".
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: August 02, 2003 04:06
Ai Malinornë! Ech annon hennaid rim! Noeth lín annar enni tulu dhaer!

Echannen i phrestaid na 'lîr nín! Ais, harthon, vaer!

Tolel na Mar Vín

Lasto! Lastach ‘lîr linnin?
Lodar athra i venel sui laiss bo i ‘waew e-lasbelin.

Lasto! Lastach in gennil?
Bo lain vithrin, i thelegain parthar lind rîn.

Lasto! Lastach i nelladel?
Nellol na ‘ell valthen.

Lasto! Lastach i linnad?
Lamath velui eriennin am menel.

Lasto! Lastach i romru?
Brui a lim ed-genir huilannad veren.

Ceno! Cair vín anglennol i lond!
Tiro! Gwaith vín darthol govaded men!

Mellyn vruin, gwennin io anann; rîn ioer, ennin edin.
Guir vín blebir anlim ir gwannam i gair.

Ai, Tol Vain! Ai, Tol Ú-‘wathrannen!
Na vedui, na vedui! Na vedui, tellim am mar vín.


Coming Home

Listen! Do you hear the sound of music?
It floats across the sky like leaves on the autumn wind.

Listen! Do you hear the sound of harps?
With silver strings, the harpers weave their melody.

Listen! Do you hear the sound of bells?
Golden-toned and ringing out with joy.

Listen! Do you hear the sound of singing?
Voices sweet are raised to the sky.

Listen! Do you hear the sound of trumpets?
Loud and clear they call out joyous greetings.

See! Our ship is approaching the harbor!
Look! Our people are waiting to meet us!

Old friends, long departed; old memories, born anew.
Our hearts beat faster as we leave the ship.

O Island Fair! O Island Unveiled!
At last, at last! We are home at last!



[Edited on 3/8/2003 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Malinornë
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: August 02, 2003 10:04
Nauthon maer i ´lîr lín si! Gerin er-beth dithen achen:

Lasto! Lastach I romru?

I > i. Nauthon i ´aud lín presta i deithad lín
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: August 03, 2003 03:35

I > i. Nauthon i ´aud lín presta i deithad lín


Ai! As agor! Gaud nín trastol enni! Le hannon!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: August 03, 2003 11:27
Ok, folks - I was 'challenged' to try and come up with a poem that 'rhymes' in Sindarin... So, this is what I've come up with...:blush:

Because of trying to make it 'rhyme', I had to think this one up in Sindarin and then back-translate it to English.

An Elvish Lullaby
Glîr Edhellen e-Laes
[A] Song Elvish for the Baby

I will sing you a lullaby my child
Le linnathon 'lîr lostad hên nín.
[To] you I will sing a song [of] sleeping child mine

A song to bring you peace.
Glîr tegitha noeth lín na hîdh.
[A] song [that] will bring thoughts yours to peace.

Close your eyes, little baby mine,
Helo hîn lín, laes dithen nín,
Close eyes yours, baby little mine,

Listen to my voice, it will give you rest.
A lasto lam nín, le annatha îdh.
And listen [to] voice mine, [to] you it will give rest.


You will cross the night's silent bridge,
Athratha i iant dhín e-dû,
You will cross the bridge silent of night,

And hear the laughter of leaves.
A lastatha i lalaith i laiss.
And you will hear the laughter of the leaves.

The wind's whisper is a timeless song,
I thloss en-gwaew glîr al-lû,
The whisper of the wind [is a] song without time,

Beneath the stars are the white shores of dreams.
Nuin giliath telitha nan felais-in-elei 'lyss.
Under the stars you will come to the shores of dreams white.


My song for you is soft and sweet.
Moe a lend 'lîr nín anel.
Soft and sweet [is] song mine for-you.

Your dreams will be filled with love my baby.
Elei lín pathrathar na veleth laes nín.
Dreams yours will be filled with love baby mine.

You will come to morning with joy.
I vinuiel le telitha na 'ell.
[To] The morning you will come with joy.

For Father and Mother are holding you now.
Adar a Naneth le garel vi rainc vín
Father and Mother you [are] holding in arms ours.

"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
oinklikeapig
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: August 03, 2003 02:55
That was beautiful, gwendeth!!! Did you write that yourself or base it on something already written?
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: August 03, 2003 03:37
That was beautiful, gwendeth!!! Did you write that yourself or base it on something already written?


Le hannon! No, I wrote it myself! :blush:

It was just something I imagined an Elvish mother would sing to her baby...
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
oinklikeapig
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: August 05, 2003 02:39
This is my translation attempt at "In the Willow-Meads of Tasarinan". It was done very quickly, and I haven't checked it over for errors very thoroughly, so your help will be appreciated!!

Also, I wasn't sure what "Willow-Meads" meant but I assumed it means "Willow-Meadows"? Does anybody know for sure?

And... just one more question... has anybody ever translated this one before so I can compare?

In the willow-meads of Tasarinan I walked in the spring.
Vi i thathar-tailf o Tasarinan pannen ned i ethuil.
In the willow-fields of Tasarinan I walked in the spring.

Ah! the sight and the smell of the spring in Nantasarion!
Ai! i gened ar i ûl uin ethuil vi Nantasarion!
Ah! the sight and the smell of the spring in Nantasarion!

And I said that was good.
A pennin ten maer
And I said it (was) good

I wandered in summer in the elm-woods of Ossiriand.
Reviannen ned laer vi i lelyrn od Ossiriand.
I wandered in summer in the elms of Ossiriand.

Ah! the light and the music in the summer by the Seven Rivers of Ossir!
Ai! i galad ar i 'lîr ned i laer na i Gelyn Edyg od Ossir.
Ah! the light and the songs in the summer by the Rivers Seven of Ossir!

And I thought that was best.
A nauthannen ten maerwain.
And I thought it (was) best.

To the beeches of Neldoreth I came in the autumn.
Nan mrethil o Neldoreth tellin ned ir iavas.
To the beeches of Neldoreth I came in the autumn

Ah! the gold and the red and the sighing of leaves in the autumn in Taurnaneldor!
Ai! i vall ar i garan ar i thuiol-in-laiss ned ir iavas vi Taurnaneldor!
Ah! the gold and the red and the breathing-of-the-leaves in the autumn in Taurnaneldor!

It was more than my desire!
Ten anveleg i anirad nîn
It (was) mightier (than) the desire my This line was difficult...

To the pine-trees upon the highland of Dorthonion I climbed in the winter.
Nan thŷn am i nôr-vrand o Dorthonion bennin ned i rhîw.
To the pines upon the land-high of Dorthonion I went in the winter.

Ah! the wind and the whiteness and the black branches of winter upon Orod-na-Thôn!
Ai! i hûl ar i fain ar i 'ylf vorn o rhîw am Orod-na-Thôn!
Ah! the wind and the whiteness and the branches black of winter upon Orod-na-Thôn!

My voice went up and sang in the sky!
Lamathen am-reviant a linnant vi i venel! This line was also difficult...
My voice up-went and sang in the sky!

And now all those lands lie under the wave.
A si i nŷr pain thinner nuin nîn.
And now the lands all fade under the waters. I know falf means "breaker" but I just don't like that word and prefer nîn.

And I walk in Ambarona, in Tauremorna, in Aldalómë,
A padon vi Ambarona, vi Tauremorna, vi Aldalómë,
And I walk in Ambarona, in Tauremorna, in Aldalómë,

In my own land, in the country of Fangorn, where the roots are long,
Vi i nôr nîn, vi i nôr o Fangorn, ias i thynd daen,
In the land my, in the land of Fangorn, where the roots (are) long

And the years lie thicker than the leaves in Tauremornalómë.
Ar i idhrinn darthanner andûr i laiss vi Tauremornalómë.
And the years stay thicker (than) the leaves in Tauremornalómë.

Sorry it's long, but I love this poem!! Le Hannon again!!

~oink~

P.S. Should the names of the seasons be capitalized? ethuil or Ethuil?

[Edited on 6/8/2003 by oinklikeapig]
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: August 05, 2003 04:55
Suilad! That's a great poem!

I haven't the slightest idea about 'Willow-Meads' myself! But, I (personally) would probably capitalize the seasons in this poem, although :blush: I haven't done so in some of my own poems, now that I think about it! And I don't know if anyone else has, but you might do a 'search' on it to see.

But, here are some comments that I have, (such as they are!)


In the willow-meads of Tasarinan I walked in the spring.
Vi i thathar-tailf o Tasarinan pannen ned i ethuil.
In the willow-fields of Tasarinan I walked in the spring.

I don't think you really need 'vi i' for 'in the' wherever you have it. 'Tailf' would lenit to 'dailf' in a compound word.

And I said that was good.
A pennin ten maer
And I said it (was) good

I think you just need to lenit 'ten' to 'den' and 'maer' to 'vaer'.

I wandered in summer in the elm-woods of Ossiriand.
Reviannen ned laer vi i lelyrn od Ossiriand.
I wandered in summer in the elms of Ossiriand.

I'm not sure why you are using 'od'. I think it's an 'older' version of 'o'. But you might put it as 'vi lelyrn en-Ossirand. as a 'genitival' phrase.

Ah! the light and the music in the summer by the Seven Rivers of Ossir!
Ai! i galad ar i 'lîr ned i laer na i Gelyn Edyg od Ossir.
Ah! the light and the songs in the summer by the Rivers Seven of Ossir!

I think ne Chelyn Edyg en-Ossir. 'Ned' is used for 'time', so I thihk it would be appropriate here, along with the genitival phrase. (I could be wrong, though!)

And I thought that was best.
A nauthannen ten maerwain.
And I thought it (was) best.

Just lenit 'ten'>'den' and 'maerwain'>'vaerwain' I think...

Ah! the gold and the red and the sighing of leaves in the autumn in Taurnaneldor!
Ai! i vall ar i garan ar i thuiol-in-laiss ned ir iavas vi Taurnaneldor!
Ah! the gold and the red and the breathing-of-the-leaves in the autumn in Taurnaneldor!

I don't think you need 'ir' here.

It was more than my desire!
Ten anveleg i anirad nîn
It (was) mightier (than) the desire my This line was difficult...

I think I'd just use 'as' for 'it' rather than 'ten' (personally!).

To the pine-trees upon the highland of Dorthonion I climbed in the winter.
Nan thŷn am i nôr-vrand o Dorthonion bennin ned i rhîw.
To the pines upon the land-high of Dorthonion I went in the winter.

I think you just need to lenit 'rhîw' to 'thrîw'.

Ah! the wind and the whiteness and the black branches of winter upon Orod-na-Thôn!
Ai! i hûl ar i fain ar i 'ylf vorn o rhîw am Orod-na-Thôn!
Ah! the wind and the whiteness and the branches black of winter upon Orod-na-Thôn!

Again, just lenit 'rhîw' to 'thrîw'.

My voice went up and sang in the sky!
Lamathen am-reviant a linnant vi i venel! This line was also difficult...
My voice up-went and sang in the sky!

How about "Lam nín rimp a linnant vi menel!" (Voice mine flew (soared) and sang in [the] sky!). For some reason, 'lam nín' seems better to me than 'lammen', I don't know why!

And now all those lands lie under the wave.
A si i nŷr pain thinner nuin nîn.
And now the lands all fade under the waters. I know falf means "breaker" but I just don't like that word and prefer nîn.

I think 'pain' should lenit to 'bain'. And, I like 'nuin nîn'!

In my own land, in the country of Fangorn, where the roots are long,
Vi i nôr nîn, vi i nôr o Fangorn, ias i thynd daen,
In the land my, in the land of Fangorn, where the roots (are) long

If you don't use 'vi i', it would just be 'vi dôr' I think.

And the years lie thicker than the leaves in Tauremornalómë.
Ar i idhrinn darthanner andûr i laiss vi Tauremornalómë.
And the years stay thicker (than) the leaves in Tauremornalómë.

I'm not sure you really need 'i' before 'idhrinn'.
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
oinklikeapig
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: August 06, 2003 05:51
Vi thathar-dailf o Tasarinan pannen ned i ethuil.
Ai! i gened ar i ûl uin ethuil vi Nantasarion!
A pennin den vaer
Reviannen ned laer vi i lelyrn en-Ossiriand.
Ai! i galad ar i 'lîr ned i laer ne Chelyn Edyg en-Ossir.
A nauthannen den vaerwain.
Nan mrethil o Neldoreth tellin ned ir iavas.
Ai! i vall ar i garan ar i thuiol-in-laiss ned iavas vi Taurnaneldor!
As anveleg i anirad nîn
Nan thŷn am i nôr-vrand o Dorthonion bennin ned i thrîw.
Ai! i hûl ar i fain ar i 'ylf vorn o thrîw am Orod-na-Thôn!
Lam nín rimp a linnant vi i venel!
A si i nŷr bain thinner nuin nîn.
A padon vi Ambarona, vi Tauremorna, vi Aldalómë,
Vi dôr nîn, vi i nôr o Fangorn, ias i thynd daen,
Ar idhrinn darthanner andûr i laiss vi Tauremornalómë.


In the willow-meads of Tasarinan I walked in the spring.
Ah! the sight and the smell of the spring in Nantasarion!
And I said that was good.
I wandered in summer in the elm-woods of Ossiriand.
Ah! the light and the music in the summer by the Seven Rivers of Ossir!
And I thought that was best.
To the beeches of Neldoreth I came in the autumn.
Ah! the gold and the red and the sighing of leaves in the autumn in Taurnaneldor!
It was more than my desire!
To the pine-trees upon the highland of Dorthonion I climbed in the winter.
Ah! the wind and the whiteness and the black branches of winter upon Orod-na-Thôn!
My voice went up and sang in the sky!
And now all those lands lie under the wave.
And I walk in Ambarona, in Tauremorna, in Aldalómë,
In my own land, in the country of Fangorn, where the roots are long,
And the years lie thicker than the leaves in Tauremornalómë.

Le hannon, Gwendeth!!

[Edited on 8/8/2003 by oinklikeapig]
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: August 28, 2003 08:23
This is a poem that was brought to my attention, and so I thought I would translate it into Sindarin... surprise, surprise! :blush:

So: Here goes! And, as always, I'm sure I've made mistakes or typos or ..... :dizzy:

William Wordsworth... untitled

She dwelt among the untrodden ways
Dorthant im raid ú-bennin
She dwelled among paths un-walked

Beside the springs of Dove,
Nan eithel Cugu
By the springs [of] Dove.

A Maid whom there were none to praise
Dess i al-bân egleriad
[A] Maid (young woman) whom [there were] no-one to praise

* I'm not entirely sure about this sentence...

And very few to love:
Ar al-rem i annatha veleth aen:
And not-many [to] whom she could give love:

* I'm not sure about this one either...

A violet by a mossy stone
Elloth garan-thlûn na harn galen
[A] Single flower red-blue (for ‘violet’???) by [a] stone green

* Any ideas for ‘mossy’?

Half hidden from the eye!
Per-dholen uin chen!
Half-hidden from-the eye!

--Fair as a star, when only one
--Bain sui êl, ir min erui
--Fair as [a] star, when one only

Is shining in the sky.
Sílol vi menel.
[Is] shining in [the] sky.


She lived unknown, and few could know
Cuiant al-istannen, ar al-rem istathar aen
She lived un-known, and not many could know

When Lucy ceased to be;
Ir Gailen gwannant;
When Lucy departed;

But she is in her grave, and, oh,
Dân e vi chaudh dín, ar, ai,
But she [is] in grave hers, and, oh,

* I wasn't sure if 'dín' or 'în' is better here...

The difference to me!
I naeth enni!
The woe to me!

NOTE: I really don't like having to use 'aen', but I didn't see any other choice on a couple of these lines... :dizzy:
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 11, 2003 06:39
Ok, here I am trying again... I don't know if anyone else has translated this or not, but I'm giving it a shot. I just don't know about whether I've got the verb tenses or word usages quite right... (this one was HARD!)

Lord, make us instruments of your peace.
Hîr, echado ven goed hîdh lín.
Lord, make us devices [of] peace yours.

Where there is hatred, let us sow love;
Ias fuiad, redho veleth;
Where [there is] hate, sow love;

where there is injury, pardon;
ias harnad, 'ohenad;
where [there is] wounding, forgiveness;

where there is discord, union;
ias narchad, erthad;
where [there is] rending, uniting;

where there is doubt, faith;
ias bauglad, estel;
where [there is] oppression, trust;

where there is despair, hope;
ias awarthad, amdir;
where [there is] abandonment, hope;

where there is darkness, light;
ias môr, galad;
where [there is] dark, light;

where there is sadness, joy.
ias nírnaeth, 'ell.
where [there is] weeping, joy.

Grant that we may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
Anno daf i men ú-dirad buiennin, dân buiad;
Give permission that we do-not-look [to be] served, but to serve;

to be understood as to understand;
heniennin, dân heniad;
[to be] understood, but to understand;

to be loved as to love.
ú-anírad i dolthad meleth, dân annad veleth.
to-not-desire the fetching [of] love, but to give love.

For it is in giving that we receive;
An na annad i crithatham;
For it-is [in] giving that we will reap;

it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
na ‘ohenad men onen 'ohenad;
by forgiving we [are] given forgiving;

and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
a na ‘wannad edennin na guil uireb.
And by dying that we are born to life eternal.


[Edited on 13/9/2003 by gwendeth]

[Edited on 13/9/2003 by gwendeth]

[Edited on 13/9/2003 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Malinornë
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 13, 2003 04:06
That was beautiful, Gwendeth! And hard! I´m sure I don´t come all the way, but here are my suggestions:

Lord, make us instruments of your peace.
Hîr, echado men goed hîdh lín.Lord, make us devices [of] peace yours.
/I think "us" may be accusative rather than dative here, so would lenit "men"

Where there is hatred, let us sow love;
Ir ennas fuiad, redho men veleth;
Where there [is] hate, let us sow love;
/I would not translate "there" in this context, where it's not determining a place but rather acts as a kind of "fake" subject. I think you meant to write "ias", not "ir"? I would understand "redho men veleth" as "sow love for us"...

where there is injury, pardon;
ir ennas harnad, gohenad;
where there [is] wounding, forgiveness;
/Same here "ias" and no "ennas" (applies to all further occurrences as well...), lenit "gohenad" as the object of "redho" (also applies to the following lines)

where there is doubt, faith;
ir ennas bauglad, estelio;
where there [is] oppression, trust;
/"estelio" looks like a verb, so "estel"

where there is despair, hope;
ir ennas awarthad, harthad;
where there [is] abandonment, hope;
/or maybe "amdir" for "hope"?

where there is darkness, light;
ir ennas morn, calad;
where there [is] dark, light;
/"morn" is an adjective, so "môr"

where there is sadness, joy.
ir ennas dem, nell.
where there [is] sad(ness), joy.
/You might want to use "nîn" or "nîr" (tears, weeping) or "nírnaeth" not to have to use an adjective as a noun, which looks a bit awkward to me. Check your spelling of "gell"

Grant that we may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
Anno daf i men al-dirad buiennin, dân buiadl;
Give permission that we do-not-look [to be] served, but to serve;
/Perhaps "ú-dirad" for "not to look"...this is the really hard one!

to be understood as to understand;
heniannen, dân heniol;
[to be] understood, but [to be] understanding;
/pluralize > "heniennin"

For it is in giving that we receive;
An na ‘nin annol i crithathamm;
For it-is in-the giving that we will reap;
/I´d use a gerund instead of the active participle and simplify to "an na annad crithatham" (for by giving we will reap)

it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
na ‘nin gohenol i gohenatham;
it-is in-the forgiving that we will be forgiven;
/I think the active "gohenatham" would translate as "we will forgive", so maybe "na ' ohenad men onen 'ohenad" (by forgiving to us will be given forgiving)

and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life.
a na ‘nin gwannol i edonnatham guil uireb.
And it-is in-the dying that we will be born [to] live eternal.
/I understand "edonnatham guil" as "We will bear/beget life", so maybe "a na 'wannad edennin na guil uireb" (and by dying we are born to eternal life)
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 13, 2003 04:17
Ai! Le hannon, Mal! That helps a lot...

And you're right about 'ir/ias'... :dizzy:

I was debating on the 'ennas' thing too... I have GOT to stop 'second-guessing' myself! LOL!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 13, 2003 07:41
Suilad! In doing the edits on that translation, I re-looked at this line and came up with this 're-working'. Le hannon!

Previous version:

to be loved as to love.
tolthad veleth, dân annad veleth
(to fetch love, but to give love)

Updated version:

to be loved as to love.
ú-anírad i dolthad veleth erui, dân annad veleth.
to-not-desire the fetching [of] love only, but to give love

Does that sound perhaps a little closer to the 'original' meaning? And would 'meleth' still be lenited? :dizzy:
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 13, 2003 08:53
I like the reworking! I´m just a bit hesitant about using "erui" as an adverb. The first "meleth" would not be lenited, as
"the fetching of love" (with the gerund used as a noun) is a genitival phrase so "love" is not an object in this case. BUT if you translate it "to fetch love" (using the gerund as an infinitive) "love" would be the object... so it might be open to interpretation. :dizzy:
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 13, 2003 09:40
Hmmm.... Interesting points.... It's hard to figure out how to state that sort of concept....

But then again... As I look at the line for the thousandth time... I think that 'erui' isn't needed anyway (goheno nín for getting philosophical here! ) ... I.e. the point could be interpreted as more for not desiring to receive love for oneself but to give it to others.


[Edited on 13/9/2003 by gwendeth]

[Edited on 13/9/2003 by gwendeth]

[Edited on 14/9/2003 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Lietur
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 17, 2003 04:58
Suilad! I have just gotten through lesson 12, and decided to attempt a translation. Here is part of the Beren and Tinuviel poem, as translated by me. I am certain it is full of errors:dizzy:, and any corrections and suggestions are certainly welcome!
The first line is the original poem, followed by my translation, and the third line is the literal translation.

The leaves were long, the grass was green,
I ngelinaid and nant, I thar galen nant,
The leaves long had been, the grass green had been,
The hemlock-umbels tall and fair,
In uirebgalen-lyth tond ar bain,
The eternalgreen-flowers tall and fair,
And in the glade a light was seen
Ar vi lant chalad tirant
And in (the) clearing light was seen
Of stars in shadow shimmering.
Od elin vi dae miriel.
Of stars in shadow sparkling.
Tinuviel was dancing there
Ennas labar Tinuviel
There hopping was Tinuviel
To music of a pipe unseen,
Na lind uin sul lebed u-tiran,
To music of a wind-finger unseen,
And light of stars was in her hair,
Ar gilgalad silant vi fin din,
And starlight was seen in her hair,
And in her raiment glimmering.
Ar vi hammad din gael.
And in clothing her glimmering.

I had problems with "hemlock umbels", and "pipe" as in the musical one, as well as "dancing".

~Lietur~

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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 18, 2003 02:31
Suilad! Good job for a first try! I just have a few suggestions (for whatever they're worth!).
The leaves were long, the grass was green,
I ngelinaid and nant, I thar galen nant,
The leaves long had been, the grass green had been,

* I am NEVER sure about using the 'to be' verb, but if it is appropriate to use it here, I'd think you'd need the plural - at least for 'leaves' so (and I'm not entirely sure about the conjugation either!) perhaps 'nanner'??????? Personally, though, I think it would just be 'understood'. In which case, 'galen' wouldn't need to be lenited. (Which is another interesting debate!) Unless you just change the word order and put the adjectives first.
The hemlock-umbels tall and fair,
In uirebgalen-lyth tond ar bain,
The eternalgreen-flowers tall and fair,

* Interesting idea for 'hemlock-umbels'! One other idea might be "toss" (pl. 'tyss') for 'bush(es)'?
The adjectives do need to be lenited though if you place them after the noun, "dond a vain" - which is a 'sticky' question as to whether BOTH adjectives need to be lenited or not. One way to get 'around' that is to have the adjectives in FRONT: "tond a bain in....." Also, I think you could juse use 'a' for and. "Ar" or sometimes "ah" are used in front of words that start with vowels.
And in the glade a light was seen
Ar vi lant chalad tirant
And in (the) clearing light was seen

* Again, I think just 'a' for and...
Of stars in shadow shimmering.
Od elin vi dae miriel.
Of stars in shadow sparkling.

* Just lenit 'miriel' > 'viriel'
Tinuviel was dancing there
Ennas labar Tinuviel
There hopping was Tinuviel

* I had a suggestion from someone on "Elfling" for a Neo-Sindarin verb construction of "glitha-" for dance
To music of a pipe unseen,
Na lind uin sul lebed u-tiran,
To music of a wind-finger unseen,

* "uin" is from/of THE. "Pipe" is a hard one! Perhaps you could just say "Na lind ú-gennen" for "To music unseen"? I think 'cen-' 'see' might be better here, using the past participle form, as "tir-" is "watch, gaze".
And light of stars was in her hair,
Ar gilgalad silant vi fin din,
And starlight was seen in her hair,

* Same comment on 'ar'. "Sila-" is "shine, shine-white", so I think 'cennen' again here. I'm not entirely sure whether that is the correct verb form or not, though.
And in her raiment glimmering.
Ar vi hammad din gael.
And in clothing her glimmering.

* "ar" again! And maybe just change the word order "hammad 'ael dín".


[Edited on 18/9/2003 by gwendeth]

[Edited on 18/9/2003 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
oinklikeapig
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 22, 2003 11:24
Suilad! :love: I just finished translating one of my favorite hymns, and thought I'd post it here. There were some pretty difficult lines in it... It has three verses, so to make for easier reading, I'm going to post them separately.

Verse One:

I, the Lord of sea and sky,
Im, i Chîr en-aear a menel,
I, the Lord of-the-sea and sky,

I have heard my people cry.
Laston nan nallad en-gwaith nín.
I-listen to-the crying of-the-people mine.

All who dwell in dark and sin,
Pain i dhorthar vi môr ar úgarth,
All who dwell in dark and sin,

My hand will save.
Cam nín leithatha.
Hand mine will-set-free.

I who made the stars of night,
Im i echant in ’eil o morn,
I who made the stars of night,

I will make their darkness bright.
Cerithon môr hain calad.
I-will-make darkness theirs light.

Who will bear My light to them?
Man tegitha calad nín na chain?
Who will-bring light mine to them?

Whom shall I send?
Man nin buiatha?
Who me will-serve?

This is the chorus, repeated after every verse.

Here I am Lord, is it I, Lord?
Sí darthon, Hîr, im anírach, Hîr?
Here I-wait, Lord, [is it] I you-desire, Lord?

I have heard You calling in the night.
Lestiel nan ganel lín vi morn,
Having-listened to-the calling yours in the night,

I will go Lord, if You lead me.
Bedithon, Hîr, ae nin tegithach. I-will-go, Lord, if me you-will-lead.

I will hold Your people in my heart.
Gerithon gwaith lín vi guren.
I-will-hold people yours in my-heart.

[Edited on 24/9/2003 by oinklikeapig]
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 22, 2003 11:25
Verse Two:

I, the Lord of snow and rain,
Im, i Chîr e-loss a ross,
I, the Lord of-the-snow and rain,

I have borne my peoples’ pain.
Gerin i naeg-en-gwaith nín.
I-hold the pain-of-the-people mine.

I have wept for love of them,
Nallon am meleth o chain,
I-cry for love of them,

They turn away.
Ú-diriathar.
They-look-not.

I will break their hearts of stone,
Dravathon guir e-sarn hain,
I-will-hew hearts of-stone theirs,

Give them hearts for love alone.
Hain annathon guir am meleth erui.
Them I-will-give hearts for love alone.

I will speak My word to them,
Pedithon peth nín na chain,
I-will-speak word mine to them,

Whom shall I send?
Man nin buiatha?
Who me will-serve?


[Edited on 24/9/2003 by oinklikeapig]
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 22, 2003 11:26
And Verse Three:

I, the Lord of wind and flame,
Im, i Chîr e-gwaew a lach,
I, the Lord of-the-wind and flame,

I will tend the poor and lame.
Nestathon i faeg ar i charn.
I-will-heal the poor and the wounded.

I will set a feast for them,
Echeditha mereth a chain,
I-will-make [a] feast for them,

My hand will save.
Cam nín leithatha.
Hand mine will-set-free.

Finest bread I will provide,
Bass brandwain annathon,
Bread finest I-will-give,

Till their hearts be satisfied.
Carel guir hain ú-anírar.
Making hearts theirs desire-not.

I will give My life to them,
Annathon cuil nín na chain,
I-will-give life mine to them,

Whom shall I send?
Man nin buiatha?
Who me will-serve?

That's it! Comments? I'm sure there will be lots, since, as I said, this was pretty difficult.

Thanks

~oink~

P.S. Le hannon, gwendeth!!! :love::love:

[Edited on 24/9/2003 by oinklikeapig]
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 22, 2003 04:36
Suilad!

Boy Oink! Very impressive translations! One of my favorite hymns, too!

I have just a couple of things, for whatever they're worth - and it's mostly just 'attempting' to answer your questions.

Verse 1:
I, the Lord of sea and sky,
Im, i Chîr en-aear ar e-menel,
I, the Lord of-the-sea and of-the-sky,

I don't know if you 'really' need 'e-menel'. I would think just 'a menel' would work.
All who dwell in dark and sin,
Pain i dhorthar vi môr a úgath, *I translated this line very literally, and I’m not sure this works…*
All who dwell in dark and sin,

I think it works fine. You just might want 'ar' for 'and' in front of the vowel, and spelling of 'úgarth'.
My hand will save.
Cam nín leithatha. *I wasn’t sure what verb to choose here. I considered maybe thel- or beria- but I didn’t think they would fit with the meaning I want here.*
Hand mine will-set-free.

I personally like 'leitha'
I who made the stars of night,
Im i echant in ’eil o morn, *Is “gîl” an irregular plural? I thought it was “geil”, but can’t remember where I read that…*
I who made the stars of night,

I checked 'DragonFlame'. 'Geil' is the correct plural for 'gîl'.
Here I am Lord, is it I, Lord?
Sí darthon, Hîr, nin anírach, Hîr? *I kind of reworded this one to avoid using the verb ‘to be’. Also, would “im anírach” be better here?*
Here I-wait, Lord, me you-desire, Lord?

I wouldn't see anything wrong with 'im anírach'. I would just reword the literal translation to '[is it] I you-desire'
I will go Lord, if You lead me.
Bedithon, Hîr, ae nin tegithach. *Again, would “im” or “nin” be better here?*
I-will-go, Lord, if me you-will-lead.

I would think 'nin', since it is 'me' who is being lead. Does that make sense?











[Edited on 23/9/2003 by gwendeth]

[Edited on 23/9/2003 by gwendeth]
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 22, 2003 04:53
Me again!
Verse Two:

I, the Lord of snow and rain,
Im, i Chîr e-loss ar edh-ross,
I, the Lord of-the-snow and of-the-rain,

Again, I'm not entirely sure you need 'edh-ross'.
I have wept for love of them,
Nallon am meleth o hain, *Is ‘o’ appropriate here? If so, does ‘hain’ mutate?*
I-cry for love of them,

I think it is, so 'hain' would mutate 'chain'.
I will break their hearts of stone,
Dravathon gýr o sarn hain, *Again, usage of ‘o’?? Also, for the verb, drava- or rista- (cleave, rend)?*
I-will-hew hearts of stone theirs,

I think (personally) either 'drava' or 'rista' works. I'm almost sure the plural of 'gûr' is 'guir'- irregular, but I can't find it now! :dizzy: Maybe 'guir e-harn' for 'hearts of stone'? I'd like to know, too.
Give them hearts for love alone.
Hain annathon gýr am meleth erui.
Them I-will-give hearts for love alone.

Plural of 'gûr'.???
I
will speak My word to them,
Pedithon peth nín na hain, *Lenition of ‘hain’?*
I-will-speak word mine to them,

'hain' > 'chain'
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 22, 2003 05:02
And Verse Three:

I, the Lord of wind and flame,
Im, i Chîr e-gwaew ar e-lach,
I, the Lord of-the-wind and of-the-flame,

Again, I don't know if you need 'e-lach'.
I will tend the poor and lame.
Nestathon i faeg ar i charn. *I used adjectives as nouns here… is that allowed?*
I-will-heal the poor and the wounded.

I'd like to know about the adjectives/nouns myself! :dizzy:
I will set a feast for them,
Echeditha mereth an hain, *Mutation here??*
I-will-make [a] feast for them,

'a chain' would be the mutation.
Till their hearts be satisfied.
Carel gýr hain ú-anírar.
Making hearts theirs desire-not.

Again, I think just the plural of 'gûr'.
I will give My life to them,
Annathon cuil nín na hain, *lenition?*
I-will-give life mine to them,

'chain'

That's it! Comments? I'm sure there will be lots, since, as I said, this was pretty difficult.


AWESOME!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 26, 2003 06:42
Suilad, mellyn! It has been a long time now since I attempted a translation, so I feel a bit rusty. This is a little poem that I wrote this morning, without any thought of rendering it into Sindarin, so I have had to cheat with some things. Suggestions are very welcome!


First Frost
I chelch vinui
The first bitter cold

My garden died tonight
Sant nín firn ne daw hen
My garden died this night

A victim of the seasons
Firith i dhagnir dín
The season of fading [was] it's slayer

I saw the roses
Cennin i meril
I saw the roses

hard and brittle in the morning
nyrn a silivren ned aur
hard and glittering white in [the] morning

captured in ephemeral eternity
gennin vi uir then
caught in a short eternity

A crystal thin and tender
Heledh gelair, thlain a ú-vell
Brilliant glass, thin and not strong

that shatters at the lightest breath
i ristannen na i thrûl voewain
that is cleaved by the softest breath

Yellow roses, yellow leaves, falling
Meril velin, laiss velin, dannol
Yellow roses, yellow leaves, falling

Slake and rotting lie the bodies
Dengin a thaiw *caethar i thraiw
Slain and rotten lie the bodies

headless stems kissing their grave
tailch ben-dýl *vibiel i harch în
headless stems kissing their grave

I sigh and fetch my rake and barrow.
Thûl dhem, a tegin i naid nín e-hant
A sad breath, and I bring my garden things

My garden died tonight
I hant nín firn ne daw.
My garden died during [the] night


[Edited on 26/9/2003 by Malinornë]
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 26, 2003 06:58
Wow, that is a beautiful poem, Mal! :love:

And... I just have two little questions (I can't believe this! :dizzy: )

Wouldn't the plural of 'the roses' be "i meril"?

And, would 'ned' not be used with 'uir' since you're talking about 'time' (i.e. 'eternity')?



"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Malinornë
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 26, 2003 08:01
Happy you liked it, Gwendeth!

Your little questions are very good... the first one is a definitive "aye"...I tend to forget about the plural article.

I'm not sure about the second one. Yes, "eternity" is "time", but in my imagination, in this line, it comes close to a "location", a matter that the rose is wrapped in...that's why I used "vi". But, as I said, I am not sure.
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 26, 2003 08:24
I'm not sure about the second one. Yes, "eternity" is "time", but in my imagination, in this line, it comes close to a "location", a matter that the rose is wrapped in...that's why I used "vi". But, as I said, I am not sure.

That's a very good point... :dizzy: It's what comes from the reader not being inside the head of the writer!
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Neneithel
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 26, 2003 10:18
I've had a go at translating a Celtic blessing.

Power of the raven be yours,
Garo dûr o chreban
(Have mastery from the raven)
Power of the eagle be yours,
Garo dûr o thoron
(Have mastery from the eagle)
Power of the Fianna.
Garo dûr o gweth thelyn.
(Have mastery from the host of heroes)


Power of the storm be yours,
Garo dûr o alagos
(Have mastery from the storm)
Power of the moon be yours,
Garo dûr o ithil
(Have mastery from the moon)
Power of the sun.
Dûr o anor.
(Mastery from the sun).


Power of the sea be yours,
Garo dûr o aear,
(Have mastery from the sea)
Power of the land be yours,
Garo dûr o thalaf,
(Have mastery from the ground)
Power of heaven.
Dûr o menel.
(Mastery from heaven)


Goodness of sea be yours,
Garo bathred aear,
(Have fullness of the sea)
Goodness of earth be yours,
Garo bathred amar,
(Have fullness of earth)
Goodness of heaven.
Pathred venel.
(Fullness of heaven).


Each day be a joy to you,
Garo 'lass o phain eraid,
(Have joy from all days)
No day be sad to you,
Avo garo nírnaeth o erarad
(Have no lamentation from a lone day)
Honour and tenderness.
Anwar a mîl.
(Awe and love).


Neneithel

[Edited on 26/9/2003 by Neneithel]
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translate poems here
on: September 27, 2003 06:46
Suilad!

Nice job on the translating! Here's a couple of comments, for whatever they're worth!!

* If you are using 'from the' in your 're-wording', you might want to use 'uin' 'from the' with the appropriate mixed mutation instead of 'o' for the Sindarin.

Each day be a joy to you,
Garo 'lass o phain eraid,
(Have joy from all days)

* I think on this one I'd 'reword a little' and say "Garo 'lass o eraid bain" (have joy in days all) with the adjective after the noun.

"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
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