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Arador507
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: February 18, 2006 02:42
Did anyone notice that Frodo's mithril shirt didn't protect him from Shelob's stinger?

And when the 2 orcs are going thru his stuff in the tower of Cirith Ungol the shirt doesn't have a hole either?

There are some other screwy things with logic on the extended version as well:

Shagrat and Gorbag argue over Frodo's mithril shirt. One orc (they never say which is which) says that it's "his" while the other orc wants to take it to Sauron. The first orc than procedes to kick the other down the ladder. The big battle happens and Sam kills the second orc. Than there is an added scene of the first orc getting out of the tower with the mithril shirt.
Later at the black gate the mouth of sauron taunts the other characters with Frodo's mithril shirt. That means the surviving orc (the one who wanted the shirt for himself) eventaully gave the shirt to Sauron!
??
Why have a large fight over two different reasons and get all of your soldiers killed and then decided to change your mind?
Oh well...
lucilalucila
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: February 19, 2006 03:36
this has nothing to do with rotk!
but something with fotr!
but there is no place i can write it so just doing it here!!
in fotr, when frodo and sam gets to the border, where sam stoppes and says that this is the farest he has ever been from the shire,
then in the right side of the picture, you can see some smoke moving, and it looks like its coming from a car!!!
elfbowman
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: March 12, 2006 12:26
What i really missed was the big build up to pelonor fields.
where were all the reinforcements and the knights of dol almoroth???

also concerning the killing of oliphants legolas's stunts are more believable than the way eowyn carelessly chops through the oliphants feet I mean there is no way she could do it! the hide must have been really thick coz we see all those arrows stuck in it!!!

The grey company was a big upset as well y werent u there boohoo :cry:
elfbowman
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: March 12, 2006 12:32
I almost for got the thing that bugged me the MOST was the fact that the army of the dead ARE NOT AT MINIS TIRITH IN THE BOOK

the rohan and the gondor reinforcements win on there own with the help of aragorn and the people they rescue from peligir
ArwenEvenstar1992
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: March 13, 2006 06:21
I hate the fact that Sam leaves Frodo in ROTK all because of Gollum.
He is evil.

[Edited on 13/3/2006 by ArwenEvenstar1992]
Fattybolger
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: March 15, 2006 03:53
I couldn't agree more. Sam's motto in the book is 'never leave your master, never, never'. He'd die rather than do that. In fact he'd probably rather Frodo killed him. And by separating them at this point, the movie also loses the very moving scenes in Shelobs' lair where they support each other. Not to mention the fact that in the book, Frodo may treat Gollum with kindness and mercy, but he's never duped by him. ITM it makes Frodo look like a gullible fool who doesn't know true loyalty when he sees it.
She_of_the_White_Flames
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: March 19, 2006 06:59
Right, so I've watched the EE of the first two films so many times I can pick out every stunt double. So I know fairly well what the voices and accents(sp???) sound like. So when I watch ROTK (not the EE:cry: ) for the first time this morning (sad, isn't it, that I've never gotten a chance to see it untill now) I was like, "Is it just me, or is there something very wrong with the way EVERYBODY is speaking???" Did anyone else notice this? Or am I just wierd? You can realy see it when Aragorn is getting ready to head for the pathes of the dead, and Gimli says "You might as well except it. We're going with you laddie." I mean, it sounded like a different actor almost. It's weird.

And Oliphuant surfing???:twitch: Oh god, just kill me now. And this is a complaint that I've had about Legolas in all the films, why do they make him come off as an airhead??? "A diversion!" Wow, nothing gets past you does it Sherlock. In the books he was intelligent. *sniffs indignatly*

And what hapenned to the Eowyn/Faramir romance??? What, we can emphasize Arwen into an almost main charechter, but we can't even show the Eowyn/Faramir story?!?! I'm sickened.:angry:

And what on Arda was with Frodo sending Sam away?!?!?!?!?!?! I mean, when I saw THAT I wondered if Frodo was just going to be eaten by Shelob. EEEEK!!!

And then there was the whole "Let's not even show the Rangers of the north, or how Aragorn etc. got ahold of those fance black ships" thing. No, because THAT'S not at important, and god knows we need to cut as much out as possible! Grrrrr...:banghead:

Well, I've only seen it once, next Sunday, when I get my paws on the EE I'll come back and rant about that.
'Till then,
G'bye folks! :wave:
*walks off singing, 'The Road Goes Ever On.'*


P.S. I just figured out how to do smilies! YAY! That's why I seem obsessed with them in this post. *sheepish grin* :blush:
Mara
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: March 20, 2006 07:43
And what hapenned to the Eowyn/Faramir romance??? What, we can emphasize Arwen into an almost main charechter, but we can't even show the Eowyn/Faramir story?!?! I'm sickened


When you watch the EE you'll see that they do get into that a little more. Granted not a lot, but there is something there. They had to cut a lot from RotK, yes, but even as it was the movie lasted three and a half hours. People who had never read the books and weren't fans of them would not have sat through anything longer. Which, I guess, is why we have the EEs
Hyperno
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: March 23, 2006 12:04
And what hapenned to the Eowyn/Faramir romance??? What, we can emphasize Arwen into an almost main charechter, but we can't even show the Eowyn/Faramir story?!?! I'm sickened.:angry:


Agreed! I didn't mind that they emphasized Arwen but the fact that PJ & Co wasted a RIDICULOUS amount of screentime on Eowyn fawning over Aragorn and then left us a lousy TWO minutes of Eowyn and Faramir getting together!! Pretty stupid in my opinion.

And don't get me started on Eomer! I can forgive them for Eomer's role in TTT but NOT ROTK! They reduced him to nothing more than Theoden's nodding dog!!! :angry: :angry:
Fattybolger
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: March 23, 2006 09:36
Very much agreed!

If they really had to inflate the Aragorn-Eowyn 'romance', why didn't they have the courage of their convictions and marry them off in the end? Faramir's been reduced to a nonentity by that time so it doesn't much matter cutting him out. (Just compare his role in the book, where he proclaims the King and more or less directs the whole coronation ceremony!), and Arwen could toddle off to Valinor like the good little daughter she is (eek!!).

Since ITM Aragorn and Arwen have both been thoroughly unfaithful to each other, mentally if not physically, there really isn't that much point in their getting back together. The scriptwriters had murdered so much of JRRT's plot by that time that a few more hacks at it wouldn't have mattered.
Waterboys
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: March 31, 2006 11:38
The only thing that I disagreed with the movie was how they portrayed the Balrog. When I first saw the movie I was like WOW! As soon as I read the book and I read the fall of Gondolin. I started to picture the Balrog differently.
I know Tolkien is very brief at his descriptions of the Balrog, he says “The Balrog made no answer. The fire in it seemed to die, but the darkness grew. It steeped forward slowly on to the bridge, and suddenly it drew itself up to a great height, and its wings were spread from wall to wall”, but if it did have wings it could use them to fly back to where the fellowship was after it fell off the bridge. If they had wings they could have just flown over the walls of Gondolin. They would not have to climb over the worms of living fire to get over the walls.
Also it was too big once I read the fall of Gondolin I pictured them to be around 14 feet tall not like 130 feet tall. Because Tolkien says that a balrog was at the fountains in Gondolin and an elf with a helmet took the helmet and stabbed it in the stomach and the elf and the balrog fell in the fountain. Also I did not imagine it had horns also, but it is pretty cool to see in the movie though.
Fattybolger
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 01, 2006 02:16
The Balrog was in FoTR, don't forget...
Aragorn1
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 06, 2006 10:54
At the Battle of the Morannon, Aragorn is on his horse when he gives his pre-battle speech. Then, after he kills the Mouth of Sauron, he is on foot when they charge. Where did the horse go? Is this just a continuity error, or did they do this for a reason?
nazgul93
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 08, 2006 11:40
The movie cut off some very important part, such as when faramir and eowyn meet in the house of healing. And they sort of change denethor into a bad guy...he's not that bad, is he?
KellyMarie
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 09, 2006 01:03
Has anyone seen the bit where Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli are debating whether to go and storm Mordor, and Gimli chokes on his pipe, then on the next scene he's completely undisturb? Sorry that just really annoys me.
Fattybolger
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 10, 2006 05:27
The movie cut off some very important part, such as when faramir and eowyn meet in the house of healing. And they sort of change denethor into a bad guy...he's not that bad, is he?


The F&E scene in the HOH is in the EE. (How's that for brevity?) However, it only lasts 45 seconds, so you have to keep your eyes skinned.

As for Denethor, it's a a complicated question and has been much discussed. There are various older threads you could trawl through and add to. Lots of people would be happy to renew the discussion I'm sure. I don't like book Denethor all that much myself, but he certainly got a very bad deal from the movie.
Silverleaf
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 12, 2006 01:31
I wasn't very fond of Denethor either, but even Faramir was a whole lot nicer in the book than in the movie. In the book I was really glad to see he and Eowyn get married but in the movie I was only so-so about it cause he seemed a little shifty up until the very end...
Failië
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 13, 2006 04:34
I didn't like Denethor in the book, so my dislike for him intensed in the movie.

I was really disappointed by the whole 45 second deal, as Eowyn was one of my favorite characters and I loved seeing her develop.

And I was really ticked off about the whole Mouth of Sauron thing. Did anyone else think that Aragorn just chopping its head off was totally....not Aragorn?
philshillam
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 16, 2006 08:37
Since there are so many pages in this topic, I decided not to read them all. Just like to put my view that the Orc commander was a bit over the top. Especially when he says "The time of man is over... The time of the Orc is now"

Oh dear oh dear.....
Deagol112LotR
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 05, 2006 12:35
This isn't really about the movies but I don't know where else to say it!
One thing that really bugs me is the Gandalf standup I got for my birthday last year from my mom. It says Return of the King on the back... but he's Gandalf the Grey! He was Gandalf the White in Return of the King! That bugs me.
Andranneth
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 15, 2006 11:49
..

And I was really ticked off about the whole Mouth of Sauron thing. Did anyone else think that Aragorn just chopping its head off was totally....not Aragorn?


Yes, same here. I mean... sickening and evil or not, that guy was a messenger, and it is extremely bad manners to kill him. It's brute, it's against the rules and it is *very* unkingly.


And of course, count me in with the crowd that completely dislikes the way Denethor was portrayed in the movie. He's a tragic character, and he came out like a complete fool.

These two things are probably the worst things they did to characters, although there are many (more) minor changes that really bug me.

[Edited on 17/5/2006 by Mara]
Fattybolger
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 21, 2006 08:37
Not only was killing the messenger unkingly, it was the direct opposite of the Aragorn's behaviour ITB, where Aragorn 'did not stir or draw hand to weapon', but still managed to intimidate the Mouth of Sauron so that he beat an undignified retreat. It's part of the general loss of decency and dignity that affllicts so many characters in the film - Denethor most of all, of course.
MiddleEarthRocks
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 22, 2006 05:34
I don't know if anyone has said this yet but here we go. 1. in the paths of the dead, where were the rangers of the north? they were suposed to be there. 2. Did anyone else notice that Shelob was in TTT? Mabye ROTK wouldn't have been so long if PJ left Shelob in TTT.
elwenrohendil
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 24, 2006 11:01
I read somewhere that they put Shelob in RotK so that Frodo and Sam would have something else to do than walk in the last film. However, what annoys me very much in RotK is that, in my opinion, Frodo and Sam are not given very much screen-time. And some important passages are definitely missing, like the scouring of the Shire :angry: . But RotK still remains my favorite...
Fattybolger
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: July 03, 2006 06:48
I should have thought that Frodo getting captured by orcs,Sam fighting his way into the Tower and rescuing him, them both getting drafted into the orc army and escaping from it, and their ascent of Mount Doom would have given them plenty to do in RoTK without Shelob.

I suppose the guiding idea was the choice of a Big Climax. In TT-the-book there are three possible ones: Shelob, the defence of the Hornburg and the downfall of Saruman. To JRRT, the Hornburg was an important incident, but not as important as the final downfall of Saruman after his verbal duel with Gandalf in Isengard. The movie makers cracked up the Hornburg because it made spectacular viewing. Anything after that was bound to seem like an anti-climax, or a total overload.

JRRT can have two climaxes - Shelob and Isengard - because of the bipartite structure of the book: there's one climax at the end of Book 3 (the fall of Isengard) and another at the end of Book 4 (Frodo's capture). By building up the Hornburg the way they did, the movie makers left no room for either of these important events, so Saruman is simply dropped - in the theatrical cut at least - and Shelob is shoved over into the enxt movie. Planned ineptitude.

This change actually does reflect the chronology of the book, if not its artistic structure. Frodo is grappling with Shelob about the same time as Pippin is arriving in Minas Tirith.

However you work the chronology, the thing that really bugs me is all the time they wasted on Aragorn falling over his stupid cliff, the stupid time-wasting and mangling of character and plot in in the Faramir-and-Osgiliath scenes, and Arwen's equally stupid fainting fits and packing for Valinor while daddy think-talks with Galadriel. If they'd left all that junk out there'd have been plenty of room for both Shelob and Saruman.
Aragorn1
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: July 03, 2006 07:09
I should have thought that Frodo getting captured by orcs,Sam fighting his way into the Tower and rescuing him, them both getting drafted into the orc army and escaping from it, and their ascent of Mount Doom would have given them plenty to do in RoTK without Shelob.

I suppose the guiding idea was the choice of a Big Climax. In TT-the-book there are three possible ones: Shelob, the defence of the Hornburg and the downfall of Saruman. To JRRT, the Hornburg was an important incident, but not as important as the final downfall of Saruman after his verbal duel with Gandalf in Isengard. The movie makers cracked up the Hornburg because it made spectacular viewing. Anything after that was bound to seem like an anti-climax, or a total overload.

JRRT can have two climaxes - Shelob and Isengard - because of the bipartite structure of the book: there's one climax at the end of Book 3 (the fall of Isengard) and another at the end of Book 4 (Frodo's capture). By building up the Hornburg the way they did, the movie makers left no room for either of these important events, so Saruman is simply dropped - in the theatrical cut at least - and Shelob is shoved over into the enxt movie. Planned ineptitude.

This change actually does reflect the chronology of the book, if not its artistic structure. Frodo is grappling with Shelob about the same time as Pippin is arriving in Minas Tirith.

However you work the chronology, the thing that really bugs me is all the time they wasted on Aragorn falling over his stupid cliff, the stupid time-wasting and mangling of character and plot in in the Faramir-and-Osgiliath scenes, and Arwen's equally stupid fainting fits and packing for Valinor while daddy think-talks with Galadriel. If they'd left all that junk out there'd have been plenty of room for both Shelob and Saruman.


But that's not how movies work. That kind of stuff works in books, but to have Shelob and Saruman after the battle in the movie would be extremely anticlimactic. Besides, we got it all eventually (in ROTK), so it's no big deal.
Fattybolger
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: July 05, 2006 02:34


But that's not how movies work. That kind of stuff works in books, but to have Shelob and Saruman after the battle in the movie would be extremely anticlimactic. Besides, we got it all eventually (in ROTK), so it's no big deal.


That was precisely my point. By upgrading the Hornburg they distorted the balance of the narrative, leaving no room for either Shelob or the downfall of Saruman. Of course we do get Shelob in RoTK, but we never get Saruman (except in the EE - and even that is infinitely far from the way JRRT envisaged Sarumans's end). This abrupt removal of Saruman makes no sense after the enormous inflation of him in FoTR - when he is seen, for example, to control the crebain and bring on the storm in the Misty Mountains - and in TT itself, where he appears as a sort of Hitler sending off his orkish Wehrmacht. Talk about 'now you see me now you don't'!
Celebne
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: September 05, 2006 03:30


If they really had to inflate the Aragorn-Eowyn 'romance', why didn't they have the courage of their convictions and marry them off in the end?


I think you should read the books. In the books the Aragorn-Éowyn plot takes a lot of place too, and the Faramir-Éowyn plot takes place in a short space of time. And then, Faramir disappears suddenly after the coronation, when the 'Great Elessar' comes to Gondor in the books. When I read the books the first time about 20 years ago, I got the feeling Aragorn and Éowyn would marry. But in the end, everybody has got his right spouse. In the movies it's very much the same. It's nonsense to say that Movie!Aragorn and Movie!Éowyn should marry and their alter egos in the books not.
Finduelas
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: September 14, 2006 10:11
Though this is like, a really small part in the movie, and I still love the way PJ altered it, I wish that Aragorn's coronation would have been like in the books. First off, Frodo was the one to hold the crown and give it to Gandalf to set upon Aragorn's head, NOT Gimli, why on earth was Gimli doing it in the first place? And the white tree was supposed to be dead, like, for good. Aragorn later found a sapling from the tree, and buried it, and that night Arwen came and they were married.
Also, when Shelob stabbed Frodo, shouldn't the mithril mail he was wearing have deflected that?
Fattybolger
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: September 14, 2006 10:49
In the book it's made clear that Shelob stings [sic!] Frodo in the neck. That would be above the line of the mithril coat - he had to get it on somehow, and stick his head out the top!

As for the coronation, in the book it was Faramir who masterminded the whole event. (Sigh.)
NiennaAlcarin
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: September 15, 2006 04:50
I wish that Frodo - like in the book, near the end in 'The Return of the King' would have said to Sam, 'Let us forgive him' (or something) about Gollum after he fell into the fire.

I really liked Gollum both in the books and movies and wanted him to come out good and happy in the end... too bad.
Aussie_Fan
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: November 02, 2006 06:42
I think PJ got a bit to creative in ROTK (in a bad way).

One thing that really bugs me in the EE is when Aragorn, gimli and legolas are leaving the paths of the dead and randomly all these skulls come crashing down on them.

Also the Orcs aren't as scary. Alot of them made me laugh
drspin98
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: November 10, 2006 06:08
Theoden's death scene. He seemed a bit too lucid for a fellow about to die.
oiralinde
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: November 12, 2006 08:44
i can't believe that they deleted the last part about Shire!:cry:
Also, Pippin and Merry were about the same hight as Frodo and Sam even though they drank Ent draught and Frodo and Sam didn't.
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: November 12, 2006 11:30
the few problems i had with ROTK ;;


1]it took too long , with some scenes that were practically useless

2]the scene where frodo asks sam to go home is meaningless. He cant even tell the differences between true loyalty and betrayal ?!

3]the black gate .
SCENE 1 ; the characters are on horses
SCENE 2 ; [one minute later]horses have vanished into thin air

4]the paths of the dead . the king of the dead did not take so long to decide whether to help Aragorn battle the Corsiar ships

5]the last part where the fellowship is reunited . WEIRD . gandalf starts laughing for practically no reason when frodo wakes up (HUH?)

thats all ... but i think there are a few more but i cant remember what -.-
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