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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 27, 2005 12:10
My opinion is that the film makers got sort of lost in the making of TTT. Although it's understandable that some things needed to be left for the third movie, by the time they got to RotK, they just had so much to cover! Consequently, they ended up leaving a lot of things out, and not taking the time to make other things right.

Has anyone noticed how the third movie just goes on and on and on and on? I love every bit of it, but all the climaxes get somewhat wearing after a while. After the destruction of the Ring, when Frodo and Sam are on the mountain, remember that long, long pause? Every time I watch the movie, a part of me wants the movie to end there. The quest is accomplished, after all, and that's where the movie was going from the first. (the books are so refreshing, by comparison!)

How could Eldarion be wearing the Evenstar when Aragorn shattered it??!?!??!?!

That's a really good point! I hadn't noticed that! grrrr! I agree, the whole Arwen weakening thing was really unecessary, except to explain away the absence of the Dunedain.
Elioclya
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 27, 2005 12:31
I thought the whole shattering thing was a dream... but I haven't watched it for a couple of months!
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 27, 2005 01:33
Have you seen the EE of RotK, Elioclya? Aragorn (or perhaps you could say it was Sauron himself...) shatters the Evenstar necklace when he looks into the palantir of Orthanc. Before that it was only a forboding dream.
Elioclya
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 27, 2005 01:38
:blush:

Whoops... forgot that! Yeah I have them all on extended DVD... a much-loved Valentine's present... but I've only watched them once since I have to use my flatmate's computer to watch them... Thanks for reminding me!
Meldariel
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 28, 2005 06:28
There were so many things that bugged me about the films that this could take a while:

-I thought that the whole Arwen thing was completely pointless to be quite honest - she plays so small a role in the books so why bother?
-Who's idea was it to get rid of the Dunedain? Huh? I sat for half an hour waiting for them to show up and was pretty angry when the went through the Paths without them.
-Hated the fact that they ignored the Souring of the Shire, I'd heard that they had filmed it and were leaving it for the EE - no such luck!
-The way Saruman died was really bad. Yeah was a little more atmospheric and all with the baddie getting speared by the machines that he worked with, but i wanted to see him turn into ash!
-Also what happened to the army of Dol Amroth? they were nowhere to be seen and there was no mention of Aragorn's foster brothers Elladan and Elrohir

I could go on and on and on . . . unfortunatly dont have time to but i think you get the jist of it
IdentityUnknown
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: April 28, 2005 07:02
A lot of the things had to be cut or the film will be waaay too long. Movies pick out the important elements of the book they adapted from and they practically make another story from the key points just to make the movie more dramatic and enjoyable to watch again and again. Like the scene where Boromir died I thought was better than in the books and much more emotional.

Mistakes I noticed:
-When Frodo was taken up to the tower of Cirith Ungol he woke up with cobwebs in his hair and face. Later after Sam charges up the tower to save him and we see Frodo again his hair and face was clean of cobwebs! He couldn't have cleaned it himself coz his hands were still tied together.
-Sam was fatter than when he started the journey and got thin again once he entered the Shire. (I know this is just the actor Sean Astin getting fatter but this is really noticable)

Things that should be changed:
-Denethors death. NOT falling from the edge of the city. Should have died holding a palantir.
-Show Sarumans appearance at least. be good to see Saruman in the ROTK with Grima killing him.
-More between Elwen and Faramir.
-The ghost be more terrifying and less human like.

Thats what I think anyway.
Morna_Child_of_Eru
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 01, 2005 07:07
I might be wrong on this, but I think the scene in Edoras when Pippin looks at the Palantir has a bit where the scale is wrong. Look at Pippin right when he gets up from his bed. Seems to me he looks like he's just as tall as the human man sleeping on the cot behind him. One the camera cuts away he's Hobbit-size again.

I didn't notice this until I'd seen the film for the 6th or 7th time but now I pick it up every time.
DLcygnet
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 11, 2005 08:13
Cut out Imrahil, cut out Houses of Healing, cut out when Eomer found Eowyn, cut out the Scouring of the Shire... (fumes) And I really was annoyed at the fact that all the Elves but Elrond and Arwen were blonde! Legolas was a Silvan Elf, so he most likely had Sindarin descent, and would probably have been dark-haired. All the Noldor were known as having dark hair, and Celeborn was silver-haired! Galadriel was done right, because she had Vanyarin blood, so she was blonde, but everyone else... That really got on my nerves, because it was kind of stereotypical, in my opinion.


Actually... the deal with Legolas is that he's always portrayed as blonde on the cover of all the books I've ever seen, before and after the movies came along. I think the whole point of Elrond and Arwen being the only ones with dark hair was supposed to be symbolic of their minor human herritage (They're the only ones as far as I know.)
ethuiliel
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 11, 2005 05:18
Actually... the deal with Legolas is that he's always portrayed as blonde on the cover of all the books I've ever seen, before and after the movies came along. I think the whole point of Elrond and Arwen being the only ones with dark hair was supposed to be symbolic of their minor human herritage (They're the only ones as far as I know.)

I used to think so too... until I read Sil. I am almost positive that acording to that, the only blond elves were the Vanyar... almost all of whom (the only exception I can think of is Galadriel) went to Valinor and stayed there. So, the Elves in ME should be dark-haired, despite their portrayal as blonds by illustrators, movie-makers, etc.

EDIT: Celeborn should be silver-haired. If it's a mistake, it's Tolkien's, not the movie-makers'.
... and the hair of the Lady was of deep gold, and the hair of the Lord Celeborn was of silver long and bright...

That would be at the very begining of the Mirror of Galadriel chapeter of FotR.

[Edited on 5/12/2005 by ethuiliel]
Sionan
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 17, 2005 09:24
Well for one thing, the scene where Gollum literally bit off Frodo's finger. I was sick for ages because of that!!! And also, in the beginning where Eowyn gives Aragorn a drink,she says something in Elvish,but there are no subtitles and I have no idea what she said. Those are the things that annoyed me the most.
Elioclya
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 18, 2005 01:18
It's not Elvish; it's "Westu Aragorn hál", although in the books it's "Ferthu Théoden hál", and it's Rohirric, which is very closely related to Old English. It basically means, Be safe, or, Be well.

[Edited on 18/5/2005 by Elioclya]
Ilfa
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 24, 2005 09:54
Well for one thing, the scene where Gollum literally bit off Frodo's finger. I was sick for ages because of that!!! And also, in the beginning where Eowyn gives Aragorn a drink,she says something in Elvish,but there are no subtitles and I have no idea what she said. Those are the things that annoyed me the most.


This is what Eowyn actually said >>> "Westu Aragorn hál'." WHICH means >>> "Be thou Aragorn well'."
SCP
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 26, 2005 05:08
Hm....things that bugged me. A lot of things I think. I'll just tell all of them, from all the 3 movies. Most of all, that they've felt out Tom Bombadil. Second of all, the relationship of Faramir and his father and Boromir. Than the end of ROTK, they've left out all the Hobbit-battles. Which I think is important because they show how much the Hobbits and especially Frodo, Sam, Pippin and Merry have changed. But I also think, it PJ would have put that thing in, the movie would be even longer and it already is kindda long (not really to long in my opinion, but still....) The part of Aragorn healing the ones that are almost death because of the Nazgul, that they know for sure he's the returned king. I don't think in the movie you can see very clear how special it is. (the title doesn't make that much sense anymore) And probably a lot more that I just can't remember with this heath....
Twylight_Aelf
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 28, 2005 03:55
It has hundreds of arrows in it's leg but it keeps moving and then it gets two swords against it's leg and the animal is dying


It was hamstrung.

My own pet peeves are with the orcs and the plotholes thereof.

Shagrat & Gorbag: If Shagrat stole the mithril shirt, how did the MoS get it? The too intelligent Gorbag overlooking that Frodo's webbing has been ripped open as with hands (orcs are NOT that dumb). Shagrat, captain of the tower of Cirith Ungol, doesn't know that Shelob doesn't wrap dead people? Surely he'd've lived around there long enough to know that. I'm sure a Morgul-orc (Gorbag) didn't have to go tell him.

In the Company of Orcs: At the beginning, the hobbits are some distance from the orc camp. Then when they start marching with the orcs, there's tents and orcs from every which way. Also, the orc-driver vs. orc captain thing. Orc captains don't use whips, but it seems like that scene tried to blend the two. It ended up looking pretty bad to me. If you read the book, the captains never used whips. That was the work of other orcs. When there was a strife, the orc captains would kill a few rioters as a reminder for the others. So why the heck was there an orc-drive popping out of nowhere? There isn't any holds near enough for the orcs to reach the hobbits so quickly. And why would an orc-driver be near or in the war camp? One more thing. Didn't the inspecting orc have short term memory or what? And the entire getting on to the poor orc-driver didn't make much sense either .

[Edited on 6/24/2005 by Twylight_Aelf]
Moonwalker
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 30, 2005 08:25


The Mouth of Sauron:
The scene started good, but then ... Why is Aragorn beheading MoS? MoS did not attack Aragorn! MoS is a messenger, and it is against the rules of (modern and ancient) diplomacy to attack a messenger. Furthermore, it is totally out of character that Aragorn (who is very merciful) kills MoS. :nono:


I agree. Aragorn was completely out of character. That was NOT necessary to kill Mos. Why couldn't MoS just ride back like in the books?

And other things which bugged me:

-"Go home Sam." *edit* I forgot to say that even if this scene did annoy me in the movie, I actually think that it was right thing to do. Like scriptwriters said, Shelob scene was much better when Frodo faced her alone. It wouldn't have been as effective if Sam was there. But of course...because I have read a book, at first it felt wrong.

-Denethor's death. That was ridiculous and the whole way they portrayed Denethor... They made him look like a total wacko who didn't deserve any kind of comfort.

-Ignoring Faramir and his romance with Eowyn. Well yes: There was a scene in EE but that was so freaking short.

-Arwen. She took too much screen time. They could have used that time by showing more HoH. I don't usually like romantic stuff at all but I loved Faramir in the books. He deserves more screen time and this romance was something I really wanted to see.

-Legolas + oliphant.

-And as much as I liked MoS it seems like filmmakers forgot one important thing: He's a living man. He looked a little too monstrous in the movie.

-After Sauron's defeat, movie ending was too long. *yawn*

-Legolas killing Grima in EE.

-Paths of the death in EE. Scene rocked in theatrical version but there was way too much comicallness in EE. And that skull part...it was just stupid. Made me laugh.

-Arwen getting weaker. Who cares?

-And one thing. That pink orc (Gothmog or whatever was his name) looked rather ridiculous. Maybe they wanted to make him look scary but I think that was exaggerated.

[Edited on 31/5/2005 by Moonwalker]

[Edited on 31/5/2005 by Moonwalker]
SCP
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: May 30, 2005 10:05


-Arwen. She took too much screen time. They could have used that time by showing more HoH. I don't usually like romantic stuff at all but I loved Faramir in the books. He deserves more screen time and this romance was something I really wanted to see.



That Arwen thing was for me better than in the movies. JP made it more realistic, because in the books Arwen and Aragorn are in love, but Tolkien barely shows it. For me as a woman it's kindda stupid to see the woman left out. Also it makes more sense Aragorn not going into the advances Eowyn makes. (but you're right about the Eowyn & Faramir thing, my brother didn't know because he only saw the movies)
Fattybolger
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 03, 2005 02:06
Of course a lot of things had to go, even in the EE. One just hopes that people who come to the books from the movies will enjoy discovering things like the Scouring of the Shire. Its absence doesn't affect the main story, but it is awfully enriching ITB because it shows how the evil of Sauron and Saruman has permeated the whole of ME and has to be fought to the last.

It wasn't excising things for lack of time that bugged me, it was putting in unnecessary things and then cutting out necessary things to make room for them. And making nonsense of the story in the process.

All the sillinesses about Arwen are just so infuriating. Iit's a great romance in the original (if you disinter it from the Appendices), so why muck it about with this stop-start business?

Arwen: yes, I will cleave to you for ever and ever. Or rather not, I think as soon as you're out of sight I'll just emigrate. Or maybe not, because on the way to the station it just occurred to me that after about 2000 years of life my biological clock is ticking and you're my only prospect of children, so perhaps you'll do after all.

Aragorn: yes I will cleave to you for ever and ever. Or maybe not because there's this gorgeous blonde turned up who would do just as well. Or maybe yes after all, because if you really do want to marry me, hey that's fine and I'll just dump the blonde without a word of explanation. Which is fine because she's taken up with this other guy whom she's never seen in her life before and is a total wimp anyway, compared to me, but this doesn't seem to bother her one bit... and so on.
Culcaranmir
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 03, 2005 03:39
Just slight annoyance with RotK...
When Frodo and Sam fall from the bridge of Osgiliath after the run-in with the Nazgul, there is some quite obvious and disappointingly shocking blue-screen work done on Frodo as he draws his sword when assaulting Sam.
I agree with the lack of emphasis on Faramir in the movies.
Why is there no Tom Bombadil??? WHY???:cry:
SCP
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 03, 2005 04:53

Why is there no Tom Bombadil??? WHY???:cry:


For as far as I know, there was going to be a Tom Bombadil, but he asked to much money.... But I think that was some great part that the movies missed. The whole wood where Tom Bombadil lives, Pippin and Merry joining him. I've just read this again, after seeing the movies and this really is a big part that misses in the movies. Just like the shire at the end where you've been talking about. Shame!!!
But after all, I think that it must have been a hard tast to make a movie of books with so much things to happen and I think PJ did a hell of a job. I mean, look at the Harry Potter movies, those are just...awful!
batsara
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 07, 2005 11:02
i think more of the story could have been put in. less battle scenes and more story. for instance yhe meeting of faramir and eyowen.
Moonwalker
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 08, 2005 06:21
Hmm...I just started to think about this: Why doesn't Gandalf use his powers during the war? I'm confused. He's a powerfull wizard but still he only uses his sword (and only ONCE his staff when he helps Faramir and his men). I have read the books but I don't remember if this has been answered in them. This really bug me so I would be really clad if someone knew that there's some kind of reason to this.
Fattybolger
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 09, 2005 12:55
Interesting question, Moonwalker, whether you refer to the book or the film.

What powers does Galdalf have? (Drawing on the book.) He's good with fireworks. After his return from death he claims to be invulnerable from ordinary weapons. He can 'strive in thought' with Sauron, as when he influences Frodo to take off the Ring at Rauros in the nick of time, before the Eye nails him. He can chase away Nazgul, but we don't know whether he could overcome the Chief Nazgul (witch-king) because they never have a showdown - Eowyn does for the witch-king while Gandalf is rescuing Faramir from the fire.

In other words, his powers are impressive, but limited. And he specifically doesn't want to force people to do things, in fact as one of the Istari (wizards) he is forbidden to do so. He is a companion, a guide, an inspiration, and to some extent a protection, but he can't just solve people's problems for them, either by magic or by superior force. He can't just step in and fix Sauron, for example; Sauron is greater than he is. If he could just wave a wand and solve everything, the story wouldn't be very interesting, would it?

I think all this got over pretty well in the film, except that Gandalf, like a lot of other characters, is far too ready to solve problems (most notoriously Denethor) by simply hitting them with a big stick. It makes for some dramatic scenes, but subtle it ain't.

Oh, about Tom Bombadil. I love him in the book, but the truth is that you can cut out the whole Bombadil episode and it doesn't hurt the main plot one bit. If anything had to go in the film, this is what I regret the least. It's a pity the barrow-wight had to go along with him, though.
NeatNicki
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 09, 2005 12:53
Did anyone mention this already? I just realised that at the end of the EE, Aragorn drops Arwen's necklace and it completely shatters into innumerable pieces. But when Arwen sees her son in her vision mid-film, he's wearing her necklace. I know it's a "vision" and that it's not necessarily a mistake per se - it could just be an identifying marker to show that yes, it's her son, but it is impossible to be "real" since her necklace was destroyed and should have been given to FRODO in the first place! :angry: hahahhaa. whew!
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 10, 2005 05:21
Yeah, I hated that.

Did anyone notice that at the last battle Barad-dur in the background when iit's not supposed to be there? The black gates are in the west, while Baradur is in the southeast and many miles further into the mountains. It shouldn't have been set within the view of the gates, even if it did look cool. Udun was completely missing, too.

P.S: Sauron couldn't see everywhere at one time in the books. And even more important, in this one part of RotK the book, it does describe the Eye to be looking about and piercing the shadows with evil light (like an satanic lighthouse). I think they did wonderful on the Eye. I wasn't expecting it at first because it's just tucked into the books, but it's there.

[Edited on 6/10/2005 by Twylight_Aelf]
NeatNicki
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 10, 2005 09:38
Oh, about Tom Bombadil. I love him in the book, but the truth is that you can cut out the whole Bombadil episode and it doesn't hurt the main plot one bit. If anything had to go in the film, this is what I regret the least. It's a pity the barrow-wight had to go along with him, though.


In the book, no, not really. *bows, respectfully disagreeing* Cutting Tom Bombadil from the book would mean that the Hobbits would have been most likely killed by Old Man Willow, or left for dead in the Barrow Downs. Even had they escaped from the latter, they might or might not have taken the Daggers of the Men of the Westernesse, and thus the Witch King might never have been vanquished (who knows if Merry could have injured him with any other blade?). I've come to a new appreciation of old Tom, can you tell? :love:
Film plot-wise, we absolutely did not need him the way Peter Jackson rewrote the story. Sorry, Bombadil, away you go.

[Edited on 10/6/2005 by NeatNicki]
Elioclya
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 10, 2005 10:53
I think the point though is that from the Old Forest right through to leaving Tom Bombadil is a side-story - although it has meaning and significance in its way, and if I remember correctly Tolkien saw it as vital in some way, in terms of the story-telling it isn't actually necessary to the story of the Ring. Cutting out Tom Bombadil the character, and only the character rather than the story surrounding it, would be an entirely different matter, and it wouldn't work at all.
Elrohir553
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 11, 2005 09:28
I think the movie was great but was EXTREMELY disapointed when the left out the hobbits homecomeing!
SCP
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 14, 2005 08:41
Did anyone mention this already? I just realised that at the end of the EE, Aragorn drops Arwen's necklace and it completely shatters into innumerable pieces. But when Arwen sees her son in her vision mid-film, he's wearing her necklace. I know it's a "vision" and that it's not necessarily a mistake per se - it could just be an identifying marker to show that yes, it's her son, but it is impossible to be "real" since her necklace was destroyed and should have been given to FRODO in the first place! :angry: hahahhaa. whew!


I just saw the movie again. (not the EE) and I saw Aragorn drop the necklace, but that was also in a dream, where he sees Arwen getting weaker. It's not for real, more like a symbol that she's dying. But I don't think that is what you mean.
Twylight_Aelf
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 16, 2005 10:41
The dream comes true in EE. He drops it when Sauron shows him the vision of Arwen dying again.

[Edited on 7/26/2005 by Twylight_Aelf]
SCP
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 16, 2005 10:13
Ok thnx. I don't have the EE, so that's why. I already thought so.
Melkortheconsumer
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 21, 2005 08:47
The movie was great, but some things bugged me.

First, in the battle of the Pellenor fields,Eowyn's horse got kicked by a mumakil !!!

And secondly, after Frodo destroys the ring,the two starving and exhausted hobbits,( also, Frodo has lost alot of blood) jump this HUGE gap on the bridge in Mount Doom.Seriously, Legolas could NOT have jumped that,let alone tired hobbits!

One last thing, lava washes ove Frodo's foot!!!
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 21, 2005 07:05
after Frodo destroys the ring,the two starving and exhausted hobbits,( also, Frodo has lost alot of blood) jump this HUGE gap on the bridge in Mount Doom. Seriously, Legolas could NOT have jumped that, let alone tired hobbits!


Good eye, but I am afraid I must disagree with you. Yes Frodo and Sam were weak, but let's not forget how powerful adrenaline is. In extreme situations, the flight-or-flight response kicks into overdrive and creates unnatural strengh. There are verified reports of humans lifting cars when a loved one was trapped under them. Frodo and Sam, running from certain death, would be experiencing a major adenaline rush. With thier bodies flooded with stress-response chemicals, even two tired Hobbits could be expected to make that leap. They might pass out afterwards (which they did) but they could make it.
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 25, 2005 07:24
Well, I did spot a few mistakes.. Like when they were at the black gate- horses there- next shot- no horses. But overall, I figured they were too focused on getting it all fancy in special-effects, and didn't pay much attention to that stuff. But I loved it as a movie, my favourite oneo f all three. As a matter of fact, the movie Fellowship of the Ring was what brought me to read the books. *even though I had a cousin who was begging me to read them forever before, lol* Anyhow, I try not to pay attention to those mistakes, simply because I know I'll get all worked up. haha
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: June 28, 2005 09:12
What annoys me is that they let out the scenes before Frodo and the others leave Middle-Earth.I mean they don't show the fight between hobbits and Saruman.They only show when Saruman is killed by Wormtongue in Orthanc!(instead of The Shire).(OK so I wanted the movies to be longer and to follow the books step by step).
I did not see other bugs, but I'll watch the movies again.
Anyway the movies rocked!
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Post RE: Things that bug me - Mistakes of ROTK
on: July 02, 2005 01:39
i noticed something that really bugged me. when pippin was searching for merry on pelenor fields, he was wearing his brooch, but didnt he spit it on the ground of rohan after he was captured by the uruks?
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