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rohanmaiden
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 01, 2004 03:53
That is a great thought Nauma!:love: I love reading what you post!
AlatarielofRivendell
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 02, 2004 10:39
Wow, Nauma, that was cool. I hadn't really thought about it that way. It is amazing that God can use even sinful broken creatures like us. When you look through the bible so often God chose people that we would never expect to carry out his work. God doesn't care about prestige or postion or "success". What He wants is our simple trust and obedience. When we place things in His hands, like Aule did, He can make them into something wonderful!
hobbitmom
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 02, 2004 08:58
I would like to welcome you to our grupe, narsiljm . I hope you post somemore of your fillings.
There has been a lot stated about "The Passion". I have not seen it. I may wait for it to come on DVD. I have seen other good movies of Christ. The seens of Christ suffering for our sins because of the great evil in the world, puts tears in my eyes every time I see it.
Going to ROTK. Watching Frodo struggling up Mount Doom, and the look of pain on his face, puts tears in my eyes. For Frodo was also suffering because if the evil Ring. All he wanted to do was destroy it.

[Edited on 3/3/2004 by hobbitmom]
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 03, 2004 09:00
I hear ya, Hobbitmom. I think you all will love this poem.

http://www.brenniesdreamscape.com/PoemTransformation.html

hobbitmom
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 04, 2004 07:03
The poem was beauriful, SpiritedWoodElf . Thank you for that. What I felt out of it was the beauty of everything the Lord made for us. It lifted my Spirit . I hope everyone reads it .
rohanmaiden
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 04, 2004 07:15
I love that poem SpiritedWoodElf!:love: Thank you for posting it. I love poetry so much!!:love:
AlatarielofRivendell
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 05, 2004 09:31
That's a beautiful poem SpiritedWoodElf. I loved it. THanks for sharing it!
Scothia
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 05, 2004 01:16
SpiritedWoodElf, lovely poem. I liked your site, too--particularly the gorgeous bejeweled buttons! Where on earth did you find them?
tuttleturtle
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 05, 2004 01:37
SpiritedWoodElf, that's a great poem. Thanks for sharing it.
hobbitmom
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 07, 2004 02:33
Hi all! God bless you . Welcome to our littie group tuttleturtle . hope you will share how LotR affect you Spiritualy.

Easter is almost here. Thinking of Jesus dieing for me makes my spirit sour. He died on the cross for me. For my sins.

Aragorn, Didn't give up on Frodo as Christ hasn't given up on us.

If God exists and we are made in His image we can have real meaning, and we can have real knowledge through what He communicated to us. By: Francis Schaeffer
AlatarielofRivendell
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 07, 2004 03:47
Thanks for that hobbitmom

I saw the Passion on Friday. Like many of you I saw the resemblence between Christ and Aragorn. But what I was struck by was the resemblence between Christ and Frodo (not physically obviously). Frodo and Sam climbing up Mount Doom was alot like Christ carrying the cross to golgotha. Frodo and Christ had both already been through horrific things. Both were bloodied, battered and bruised. And both were carrying a great burdon besides just the physical pain- the burdon of sin. Frodo carried the ring, the embodiment of evil, and Christ bore upon himself all of our sins. And in both cases (though one was through pure obedience and the other through the intervention of Iluvatar) the evil was destroyed, victory was won. And we can rejoice in the knowledge that we are forgiven and that sin holds no power over us.
rohanmaiden
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 07, 2004 06:35
Those are interesting thoughts Alata. (Do you mind if I call you that? I have a habit of making nicknames out of people's screen names.)

I thought about that for a while, but then I started thinking about it more and it doesn't seem quite right somehow. Christ is perfect. He never sinned. Frodo on the other hand had a lot of weak moments that he only got through because of Sam. Even in the end he couldn't bring himself to destroy the ring. Because of this, I think Frodo is more like the priest who represents Christ than Christ Himself. The priest offers up the same sacrifice of the cross for all of us but he obviously isn't perfect. This is just my thoughts anyway.
Nauma
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 07, 2004 07:44
Obviously the analogy can never be perfect, but here's an interesting thought to add to that: on that last trip up Mt. Doom, it was Sam, arguably the innocent character of the story, who carried both Frodo and the Ring up the mountain...
Jemima
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 07, 2004 10:34
Do you mean like that "Footprints in the Sand" thing you can get on a plaque in Christian bookstores, Nauma? I never thought of it that way.
I just saw the movie again tonight and I was reminded of the same scene in the book. When Sam picks Frodo up, he is surprised to find Frodo light. He thought he would be very heavy because of the weight of the ring and the way Frodo had been struggling with the weight of the ring. I'm guessing Tolkien put that in the story for a very good reason but I'll have to think about it for awhile.

Also (this is way off the subject), how long do any of you think it's been since a movie with no swearing, immoral sex scenes, or off color jokes has won best film at the Acadamy Awards? I'm thinking a very long time and... it's about time.
rohanmaiden
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 08, 2004 10:59
Jemima, about the films that have won best actor I agree with you. It seems to me every year a film like you described wins. I'm so glad the cycle has broken.
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 08, 2004 11:18
SpiritedWoodElf, lovely poem. I liked your site, too--particularly the gorgeous bejeweled buttons! Where on earth did you find them?


Oh, Scothia, the site is not mine. I am glad that you enjoyed it though.

I am not much of a writer myself, but I do appreciate poetry. I am glad that you all enjoyed the poetry I found. This poem "Transformation" sorta feels like the beginning of "Forth Eorlingas". I don't think I spelled that right, but I think you all will know which song I mean. I made a connection with the feeling I got from the beginning of that song, finally. This poem also reminds me of the song "Into the West".
hobbitmom
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 08, 2004 01:21
Also (this is way off the subject), how long do any of you think it's been since a movie with no swearing, immoral sex scenes, or off color jokes has won best film at the Acadamy Awards? I'm thinking a very long time and... it's about time.


After I read what you said, Jemima, I tryed to remember when the last movie that won Best Film without all on what you said above. What comes to mind for me was "Driving Miss Daisy". A very good clean movie. I really enjoyed it .

But, Guys, Lets get back to the Topic.

I love "Footprints in the Sand". I have a copy of it in my Bible. Anytime I go through a stressful time of my life and think God wasn't helping me I would think of, "Footprints in the Sand", and read it. I love the comparison of Sam carrying Frodo and Christ carrying you or me. Wow, that gave me shivers. Good ones that is .
This is from my Devotional:
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28
I think this verse falls right into what we're talking about :love:.
Jemima
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 08, 2004 10:22
Hobbitmom, That's exactly the verse that would have given Frodo comfort!
I think it's interesting that the ring came between Frodo and all that he held dear. Of course he was carrying it sacrificially - until the end of course when the ring "took him" and his selfish will came into play - but it still cut him off. After the ring was destroyed, his relationships were restored...with Sam, with his home, with everyone. That ring took him down a path he didn't want to go on and it seperated him from everyone except its maker. (I know I've said this before but the ring really reminds me of sin.)
I also think PJ did a wonderful job portraying the rings destruction. Gollum tried to hold it up and save his "precious" for as long as he could. It even seemed to try to save itself - floating on the surface of the molten lava for a few seconds, then the inscription written in the black speech shows up, finally it sinks down into oblivion - and Sauron is utterly defeated when sin (I mean the ring) is defeated.
rohanmaiden
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 09, 2004 01:07
Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Matthew 11:28
I think this verse falls right into what we're talking about


I love this verse!!!!:love::heart: Seems to me I always hear it just when I need it. (I've been having a bad day.) Thanks for posting it, Hobbitmom. I love the Footprints in the Sand also. It is very comforting to read.
hobbitmom
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 09, 2004 06:17
You are very welcome,rohanmaiden .

I just saw the movie again tonight and I was reminded of the same scene in the book. When Sam picks Frodo up, he is surprised to find Frodo light. He thought he would be very heavy because of the weight of the ring and the way Frodo had been struggling with the weight of the ring. I'm guessing Tolkien put that in the story for a very good reason but I'll have to think about it for awhile.


I was thinking about what you said, Jemima, about Sam picking up Frodo and being surprised to find Frodo light. Could it be because to Frodo the Ring was heavy. The closer they got to Mount Doom the more the Ring was working on Frodo's mind. So menitaly the Ring was very heavy to Frodo, but to Sam it wasn't. Does that make sense :dizzy
God wants us to help those with heavy, and not so heavy, burdens.Treat both the same, because what is not a heavy burden to you can be a very heavy burden to that person.
hobbitmom
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 12, 2004 08:26
"What is temptation? Temptation is the gracious way of introducing each soul to his or her power. When you are seduced or threatened by external circumstances, you lose power. They gain power over you. With each choice
that you make to align yourself with the energy of your soul, you empower yourself. This is how authentic power is acquired. It is built up step by step, choice by choice. The journey to the soul begins with understanding that we are drawn automatically as a species to come to terms with power. Each human being is experiencing the causes and effects of his (and even his forfathers') choices, his or her desires to fill in the empty, powerless places within
him or her. This dynamic can be described in terms of an insecure humanity, but that is just the obvious. The mechanism at work is the journey toward genuine, authentic empowerment. This is why each human being struggles so deeply with power: the lack of it, the acquisition of it, what it is really, how one should have it. Underlying every crisis, emotional, spiritual, physical and psychological, is the issue of power. Depending upon the lens that you wear to interpret your crisis, you will either step closer to your soul or closer to Earth.
The journey to wholeness requires that you look honestly, openly and with courage into yourself, into the dynamics that lie behind what you feel, what you perceive, what you value, and how you act. It is a journey through your defenses and beyond so that you can experience consciously the nature of
your personality, face what it has produced in your life, and choose to change that."

spiritedwoodelf wrote me and asked if I would post this for her because she couldn't get on CoE. I thought it was beautiful and so I did what she asked . I hope you all enjoy it as much as I did .
This reminds me so much on Frodos struggle with the Temptation of the Ring. He keep fighting back the temptation of letting the Ring take control of him as long as he could. The sad :cry: thing though, the Ring took control over Frodo, untill it left him. Thanks to Gollum.
God will help us take control of our Temptation of we ask for His help .
Ivy_Hardbottle
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 13, 2004 07:19
No offence or anything guys, but I don't think the story is supposed to be spiritual. I didn't see it as anything Godly or anything like that. I think it was just meant to be a good story. Please dont take offence coz I dont mean to offend. :heart:
BelleBayard
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 13, 2004 01:55
Actually, I think the thread was intended to ask how the story affected people spiritually, not what the Professor intended it to mean. In reality, no one really knows what an author intends except the author. That's why I find it somewhat amusing in literary analysis when people say "The author intended..." Did the author say he or she meant that? Did the person making this statement talk to the author? We can extrapolate till the cows come home what things may or may not mean or represent in a story, but only the person whose mind it came from can really say what the true intent was.

If a story touches people in a certain way, then the author has succeeded. Let us not digress from the thread topic. This is not meant to be what Tolkien intended by his stories, but how they affected you spiritually. So far, mostly Christians have answered, but it touches many more than just those, thus the wide variety of belief systems you'll find on this board.

That said, LoTR definitely affected me spiritually. It made me believe in the inherent strength of people when faced with overwhelming odds and that hope remains even in the darkest hours.
Mithelril
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 14, 2004 11:55
Could any of you help me out? I'm looking for a place in LOTR that parallels 1 Cor. 1:27-29. " But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things - and the things that are not - to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before Him."
I know Gandalf said something like, "the foolish things of this world confound the wise." He was speaking of the Hobbits but I can't find it yet. Maybe someone can help me out and save me some time. Thanks.
I gather no one has found the passage in question yet. I immediately grabbed my copy of FINDING GODD IN THE LORD OF THE RINGS by Kurt Bruner & Jim Ware. They did quote the Scripture but tied it to LotR in another way.
"To tell you the truth," replied Gandalf, "I believe that hitherto--hitherto, mark you--he [Sauron] has entirely overlooked the existance of hobbits. You should be thankful. but your safety has passed." -FotR; The Shadow of the Past, just before Gandalf reveals the Ring's inscription in the fire.
This is a small book but insightful.

I know the Professor refused to accept the label of allegory, but we fall into that thinking so easily. How can a Believer NOT see Messiah-like qualities in many of the characters? I noticed this also in the Silmarillion. The story of creation took my breath away. A musical genesis! Some wisdom I got from that book:
a conversation between the Eldar (elves) as messengers from the Valar and the Numenoreans:
Eldar: ...And you are punished for the rebellion of Men, you say... ans so it is that you must die. But that was not at first appointed for a punishment. Thus you escape, and leave the world, and are not bound to it, in hope or in weariness. Which of us therefore should envy the other?
And the Numenoreans answered: "why should we not envy the Valar or even the least of the Deathless? For of us is required blind trust, and a hope without assurance, knowing not what lies before us in a little while..."The Silmarillion/Akallabeth
Ah, faithless men! That hit home to me. Enough for now! Shalom!

[Edited on 14/3/2004 by Mithelril]
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 14, 2004 03:35
Actually, I think the thread was intended to ask how the story affected people spiritually, not what the Professor intended it to mean. In reality, no one really knows what an author intends except the author. That's why I find it somewhat amusing in literary analysis when people say "The author intended..." Did the author say he or she meant that? Did the person making this statement talk to the author? We can extrapolate till the cows come home what things may or may not mean or represent in a story, but only the person whose mind it came from can really say what the true intent was.

If a story touches people in a certain way, then the author has succeeded. Let us not digress from the thread topic. This is not meant to be what Tolkien intended by his stories, but how they affected you spiritually. So far, mostly Christians have answered, but it touches many more than just those, thus the wide variety of belief systems you'll find on this board.

That said, LoTR definitely affected me spiritually. It made me believe in the inherent strength of people when faced with overwhelming odds and that hope remains even in the darkest hours.


I have been touched spiritually by this story as well. I don't know what Tolkien intended. All I know is how it has made me feel. I ran across this little piece, in a book called The Seat of the Soul, and felt such a strong connection between it and the story. I was so moved by what it awoke within me, I just had to share it. There are many other things that make me think of the story as well. "The strength of people when faced with overwhelming odds and that hope remains even in the darkest hours." That is definitely one of them for me as well.

Hobbitmom, thank you for posting this. I finally found the problem. "To have a friend is to be a friend." You certainly live your quote.
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 14, 2004 04:34
"The choice to learn through wisdom, the choice to release patterns of negativity, of doubt and fear, that are no longer appropriate to who we are and what we are becoming."

I also found the quote above in The Seat of the Soul. This is one that has touched me the most. "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to us." Gandalf

AlatarielofRivendell
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 14, 2004 05:00
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time given us." That is one of my favorite LOTR quotes. It is such a helpful idea to remember. There are so many things we can't control:circumstances, other people, etc. But we can control how we react to them and what we do with those circumstances, etc. So often we get frustrated or depressed because of things we have no control over. When that happens we need to remember what Gandalf said and do what we can do. When stand before God he will ask for an account of our life. I believe that's what He will ask for- "my child, what did you do with what I gave you?" I find that focusing on that in my daily life helps me alot as well.

Spirited WoodElf-thank you for the thoughts on temptation. My church is going through "The Purpose Driven Life" and the chapter for today was on temptation. Rick Warren (the author) said that instead of looking at temptation negatively (as we usually do) we should look at it as an opportunity to grow. Temptation gives us a choice. if we choose to overcome it we grow more like Christ, which is wonderful! And then I look on this thread and there you are saying the same thing! God must be trying to teach me something
hobbitmom
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 14, 2004 09:04
After I posted "What Is Temptation" for SpiritedWoodElf and found under my post,
No offence or anything guys, but I don't think the story is supposed to be spiritual. I didn't see it as anything Godly or anything like that. I think it was just meant to be a good story. Please dont take offence coz I dont mean to offend.

To me, Ivy_Hardbottle, there is no offence . I want everyone to write their feelings about things.
After I read Ivy_Hardbottle's Reply I was going to write something right back, But God said to me "Let it go." I listened to Him. I glad I did. I was so moved by the other Post Replys I was in teers when I finished reading them all. I thank God every day for giving me the opportunity to start this thread. I am truly Blessed by each and everyone of you who take the time to read every post and write something. God Bless you.

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you."
That is my favorite LOTR quotes also . I think Frodo lived by what Gandalf said to him. I think every time He felt like giving up that saying came to him. Is there anything that helps you through hard times or just plane, out right, want to give up. A Bible verse or hym or something that you heard and it lifted you spirit?
Here's mine: I had a very dear friend that everytime she knew I was hurting she would take my hands, look into my eyes and say. "This is the day the Lord has made, rejoice and be glad it is". That is also a song. She is now in heaven with our Lord, but I remember that wonderful woman and her statment everytime I'm feeling down or sad or think nothing is going right for me.




[Edited on 15/3/2004 by hobbitmom]
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 15, 2004 02:36

I still struggle with thoughts of just giving up. I sometimes feel that I have totally ruined my life beyond all hope. I am going through a survival and spiritual crisis right now. And believe me, it is overwhelming at times.

Anyway, it helps to listen to music. I love the music from the soundtracks from the "Lord of the Rings". The Council of Elrond, Forth Eorlingas, Evenstar, Foundation of Stone, and many more. Just music does something for me. I also love listening to Charlote Church. I have been touched by many hyms, but "Amazing Grace" has touched me the most.
AlatarielofRivendell
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 16, 2004 07:05
When I am discouraged it helps me to remember the promises of our Lord. "I am with you always unto the very end of the age." "I will never leave you nor forsake you" Psalm 23 is especially comforting. I also read Psalm 37 which is one of my favorites. Songs also comfort me. I love the old hymns. So many tuch my life.

I was reading in "The Purpose Driven Life" today (ch 28 if your interested). Rick Warren, the author, wrote, "Remember that God is never in a hurry, but He is always on time." Immediatly I thoght of Gandalf's quote, "A wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." God is the same way! His timing is perfect. So often we get frustrated when things don't happen when we think they should. In our world of fast food and instant messeging we forget that good things take time to build. We get upset when God doesn't bring healing, or reconciliation, or blessing when we think He should. When this happens it is so helpful to remeber this. God's timing is perfect. When the time is right He will answer your prayers. He is "never late, nor is he early."
hobbitmom
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 16, 2004 08:05
I notices new people on the thread. I want to welcome, Ivy_Hardbottle, BelleBayard and Mithelril to our little Spiritual grupe . I hope you all will post more insites.

AlatarielofRivendell: Thanks for posting What Rick Warren wrote about 'God is never in a hurry, but He alway is on time.' That is so true. What I really like is you campering it with the scene in 'Fellowship'. Gandalf telling Frodo,
"A wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to."

I never thought of putting the two together It's a wonderful comperson . Thanks .


[Edited on 17/3/2004 by hobbitmom]
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 17, 2004 10:21
"A wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to."


Thanks for that reminder. I really needed to be reminded of that today. The timing was perfect.


[Edited on 17/3/2004 by SpiritedWoodElf]
Neenime
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 17, 2004 03:41
The spiritual question is huge. This work is spiritual in many ways. some that fit in the obvious Christian format but also in other ways. I could write a book on spiritual themes in LOTR (and other have done so) but her are some that stand out:

For instance, it abounds with spiritual and deeply psychological patterns that are seen throughout al the mythology and religion of all cultures (Carl Jung called them archetypes) are everywhere- the Wise Old Man, the Golden Child, the Hidden King, the Goddess of Light, the Evil Child, the Shadow Wizard..... So it was great to feel and see those characters, those basic building blockes of our psychological perception.

Sacrifice - that theme arises again. Frodo's is not the bloody sacrifice on behalf of the undeserving, but a sacrifice freely given in friendship and integrity. In fact, alll the main characters sacrifice something, as part of their commitment to Middle Earth.

This unity of existence -among races and even species in LOTR reminds me of the Pagan notion of the sacredness of all life and the interdependent web of existence.

Pagan and pre-Christian religions and mythologies are also big on transformation. Every major character undergoes a tremendous transformation - internally felt but often externally visible. people encounter their dark side, they find their courage and are touched by pain and evil but generally left stronger for it.

"What you send into the world comes right back at ya' , threefold " (a very modern version of the Pagan rule). Saruman comes to mind here, as does Denethor.

Well, that's enough for now. it's a good question that's been raised and I will retire to my tower and palantir to consider further...........

“Some believe it is only great power that can hold evil in check. But that is not what I have found. I have found that it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love. " Gandalf
Jemima
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 17, 2004 07:27
Hobbitmom, Here are my verses -

"Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving,present your requests to God. And the peace that transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus." Phillipians 4:6.

"You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world." 1 John 4:4
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Post RE: How did LotR affect you spiritually?
on: March 18, 2004 10:39
The spiritual question is huge. This work is spiritual in many ways. some that fit in the obvious Christian format but also in other ways. I could write a book on spiritual themes in LOTR (and other have done so) but her are some that stand out:

For instance, it abounds with spiritual and deeply psychological patterns that are seen throughout al the mythology and religion of all cultures (Carl Jung called them archetypes) are everywhere- the Wise Old Man, the Golden Child, the Hidden King, the Goddess of Light, the Evil Child, the Shadow Wizard..... So it was great to feel and see those characters, those basic building blockes of our psychological perception.



Oh cool! I love spiritual psychology! I have been reading a lot about archetypes, and a lot of spiritual psychology books.



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