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chreotha
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 05, 2006 04:44
thanx i will
Nenyia
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 06, 2006 10:39
I come seeking advice. I think Vaya has already recommended Scott Cunningham's books, but I was wondering if any of you had more to share about this particular book of his, The Complete Book of Incense, Oils and Brews. I have a mind to buy it, as I'm interested in oils and incense, but I'm not sure whether it's specifically targeted towards Wiccans, or towards other Pagans as well. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

And, on a different note, for those of you doing tarot readings - do you have any advice for learning (and remembering *cough*) the basic meanings of the Minor Arcana cards? I have this very handy book that I keep near everytime I do readings, but, seeing as they're rather irregular, I tend to forget many meanings. I've tried again and again to keep a journal of the readings, and put some discipline into this, but it didn't work. Do you have some mental scheme to help you remember them? Or is it just a matter of exercise?
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 06, 2006 11:09
I come seeking advice. I think Vaya has already recommended Scott Cunningham's books, but I was wondering if any of you had more to share about this particular book of his, The Complete Book of Incense, Oils and Brews. I have a mind to buy it, as I'm interested in oils and incense, but I'm not sure whether it's specifically targeted towards Wiccans, or towards other Pagans as well. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.


Oooh, haven't seen that one, I'll have to check it out.

The thing with Cunningham's books is that they are targeted towards witches ie the actual practitioners of magic. They're very useful references for reletively simple rituals with some good results, and I would call them Witch books, not simply wiccan or pagan.


And, on a different note, for those of you doing tarot readings - do you have any advice for learning (and remembering *cough*) the basic meanings of the Minor Arcana cards? I have this very handy book that I keep near everytime I do readings, but, seeing as they're rather irregular, I tend to forget many meanings. I've tried again and again to keep a journal of the readings, and put some discipline into this, but it didn't work. Do you have some mental scheme to help you remember them? Or is it just a matter of exercise?


As a general rule

Cups are to do with emotions

Swords are to do with thoughts and ideas

Rods/wands/staffs are to do with passion and creativity

Pentacles are to do with the material world.

*note, it may seem at times that these vary, but this is a general rule

Now, I employ mass memorization, but not everyone can do that, hwoever, this gentleman....

http://www.salemtarot.com

I believe tells his students that the best way to interpret the cards is to look at their images. Sometimes this is pretty easy, sometimes less so, however, if you try to do that, I think you'll find it takes less memorization.

So like the three of swords is typically a heart with three swords through it, signifying heartbreak.
Nenyia
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 06, 2006 12:52
Oooh, haven't seen that one, I'll have to check it out.

Here's a little blurb I found about it.
The thing with Cunningham's books is that they are targeted towards witches ie the actual practitioners of magic. They're very useful references for reletively simple rituals with some good results, and I would call them Witch books, not simply wiccan or pagan.

Oh, wonderful! Then I think I'll give it a try. Thanks for explaining!
As a general rule

Cups are to do with emotions

Swords are to do with thoughts and ideas

Rods/wands/staffs are to do with passion and creativity

Pentacles are to do with the material world.

*note, it may seem at times that these vary, but this is a general rule

Yes, they correspond to what I've learned so far. My little book also mentions career as a general meaning for the suit of Wands, which I guess only further develops the passion and creativity you mentioned.
Now, I employ mass memorization, but not everyone can do that, hwoever, this gentleman....

http://www.salemtarot.com

I believe tells his students that the best way to interpret the cards is to look at their images. Sometimes this is pretty easy, sometimes less so, however, if you try to do that, I think you'll find it takes less memorization.

So like the three of swords is typically a heart with three swords through it, signifying heartbreak.

Interesting site! Myself, I usually go to Aeclectic Tarot. The problem with image interpretation is that it relies heavily on the particular type of deck you're using. For instance, my Three of Swords card only features three swords on a blueish background. I suppose the one you've described belong to the Rider-Waite deck. Well, it seems it's for good reason that it's so widely recommended. Mine is the Lovers' Tarot, which I've picked because the imagery of the Major Arcana really spoke to me. The Minor Arcana cards, however, are very abstract and minimalist, which is why I find it so confusing to interpret them.

I think it'd be better to get myself a more traditional deck, at least till I learn the meanings and get the hang of it, and then return to my current deck.

Speaking of tarot, do you use a Significator? I have a hard time settling upon one for myself. I already know it should belong to the suit of Swords, because of my sign (Aquarius), but then I'm stuck. My intuition says the Knight of Swords, because it's a young person with dark hair and dark eyes, which would fit me. But isn't it a card reserved to male Querants? Or is sex irrelevant when choosing the Significator?
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 09, 2006 03:39


Speaking of tarot, do you use a Significator? I have a hard time settling upon one for myself. I already know it should belong to the suit of Swords, because of my sign (Aquarius), but then I'm stuck. My intuition says the Knight of Swords, because it's a young person with dark hair and dark eyes, which would fit me. But isn't it a card reserved to male Querants? Or is sex irrelevant when choosing the Significator?


erf, haven't heard that one....I think I had a gypsy deck that used one in the center of the spread, but not in regular tarot reading.
Nenyia
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 10, 2006 09:22
erf, haven't heard that one....I think I had a gypsy deck that used one in the center of the spread, but not in regular tarot reading.

Well, I don't use it all that often either. It depends on the type of spread. I usually do a 3-card spread, which thankfully doesn't require a Significator. Occasionally I try my hand at a Celtic cross too, but I find it difficult to interpret, especially when trying to see the "bigger picture" and the way the cards influence one another.
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 11, 2006 03:31
erf, haven't heard that one....I think I had a gypsy deck that used one in the center of the spread, but not in regular tarot reading.

Well, I don't use it all that often either. It depends on the type of spread. I usually do a 3-card spread, which thankfully doesn't require a Significator. Occasionally I try my hand at a Celtic cross too, but I find it difficult to interpret, especially when trying to see the "bigger picture" and the way the cards influence one another.


The Celtic Cross is the spread I learned and there is some bigger pictureing there, but wtih practice, this becomes easier.
chreotha
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 11, 2006 06:22
I've never tried tarot but I did make my own rune stones. I found a book YEARS ago called "A practical guide to the runes, their uses in divination and magick" by Lisa Peschel. I get bogged down with the "big picture " too so i try to stick to a three stone reading.
Its sounding like reading runes is very similar to reading tarot. And i've only used them for my own readings i never try to read anyone else. I'm still using the book to look up meanings. This book was great for getting started tho. it teached one to do everything themselves. making their own rune stones, a bag to carry them, talismans. i love it.
Nenyia
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 14, 2006 10:23
I've never used runes, Chreotha, but from your description they seem similar to tarot. It must have been a great experience to make your own runes.

Has anybody tried other divination methods? I'm tempted to give scrying a try, though I've heard it's quite challenging.
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 14, 2006 01:24
I've never used runes, Chreotha, but from your description they seem similar to tarot. It must have been a great experience to make your own runes.

Has anybody tried other divination methods? I'm tempted to give scrying a try, though I've heard it's quite challenging.


Runes are actually slightly different than tarot, and closer to say Iching. Essentially you take nine runes from a bag and throw them on a mat. They're placement slightly alters teh meaning of the rune.


Recently I've been reading on Quabbalah, and my sister got herself a Quabbalah based tarot deck, fascinating stuff.
Nenyia
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 15, 2006 03:55
Runes are actually slightly different than tarot, and closer to say Iching. Essentially you take nine runes from a bag and throw them on a mat. They're placement slightly alters teh meaning of the rune.

Interesting. And when you're interpreting them, do you try to find similarities with already established patterns, or do you rather use an intuitive approach? I mean, perhaps a certain placement is described as having this or that meaning, but to you it might inspire a different symbolism. How important is "tradition" in rune divination?
Recently I've been reading on Quabbalah, and my sister got herself a Quabbalah based tarot deck, fascinating stuff.

Yes, Qabbalah is really fascinating. It's interesting how some Qabbalistic concepts blended with Hermetic ones. I've recently bought this book, which features a lot of esoteric imagery. It's incredible how complex some pictures are, you could stare at them for a while and still cannot be able to grasp all the symbols and meanings. It's a bit like tarot, there's so much to be discovered in every card, so many layers of interpretation.
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 21, 2006 12:12
Runes are actually slightly different than tarot, and closer to say Iching. Essentially you take nine runes from a bag and throw them on a mat. They're placement slightly alters teh meaning of the rune.

Interesting. And when you're interpreting them, do you try to find similarities with already established patterns, or do you rather use an intuitive approach? I mean, perhaps a certain placement is described as having this or that meaning, but to you it might inspire a different symbolism. How important is "tradition" in rune divination?


Erm yes...I've already said everything I know about runes


That's not true, but what I do know is mythology behind them (Odin hangs from the tree of life, Yggdrasil, for nine days and comes back with knowledge of the underworld, ie the runes)

Recently I've been reading on Quabbalah, and my sister got herself a Quabbalah based tarot deck, fascinating stuff.

Yes, Qabbalah is really fascinating. It's interesting how some Qabbalistic concepts blended with Hermetic ones. I've recently bought this book, which features a lot of esoteric imagery. It's incredible how complex some pictures are, you could stare at them for a while and still cannot be able to grasp all the symbols and meanings. It's a bit like tarot, there's so much to be discovered in every card, so many layers of interpretation.


Well, teh book I am reading right now is...here

The Chicken Quabbalah, which is a humorous approach, and explains it all very well, definately the best read I've made on the subject (usually I find it very dense...)

[Edited on 31/3/2006 by Mara]
chreotha
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 22, 2006 07:16

Runes are actually slightly different than tarot, and closer to say Iching. Essentially you take nine runes from a bag and throw them on a mat. They're placement slightly alters teh meaning of the rune.


Well unfortunately that's not how I use them, and that's not how the book I have explains how to use them. I use them a lot more like you all describe using tarot. I draw them directly from, the bag or pile them up and choose them one at a time. And i only read three symbols at a time. Ive never heard of Iching, what book did you find this in?
Ataralassë_Manveri
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 23, 2006 02:35
I just wanted to say hey. I haven't been here in forever. I have tarot cards and I've made some runes. I never get the chance to use either though.
chreotha
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 25, 2006 08:21
Hi Ataralassë great to meet you. I like your sig.
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: February 25, 2006 09:44
You to Chreotha. Don't worry if you don't see much of me. I tend to pop up at random. I'm on several other forums, and I tend to forget this one. :blush:
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 05, 2006 03:27

Runes are actually slightly different than tarot, and closer to say Iching. Essentially you take nine runes from a bag and throw them on a mat. They're placement slightly alters teh meaning of the rune.


Well unfortunately that's not how I use them, and that's not how the book I have explains how to use them. I use them a lot more like you all describe using tarot. I draw them directly from, the bag or pile them up and choose them one at a time. And i only read three symbols at a time. Ive never heard of Iching, what book did you find this in?


There is no right way to use them, use them in whatever way is most comfortable to you.

That is a fundemental secret to magic...there is no set ritual which brings about specific results, the important aspects of magic are within you

Visualization, concentration and belief.
Nenyia
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 06, 2006 11:07
That is a fundemental secret to magic...there is no set ritual which brings about specific results, the important aspects of magic are within you

Visualization, concentration and belief.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
chreotha
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 08, 2006 09:15


There is no right way to use them, use them in whatever way is most comfortable to you.

That is a fundemental secret to magic...there is no set ritual which brings about specific results, the important aspects of magic are within you

Visualization, concentration and belief.

thanx Vaya I didn't understand what you ment. They work perfectly for me the way I described.
Still have no idea what iching is tho
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 09, 2006 02:37


There is no right way to use them, use them in whatever way is most comfortable to you.

That is a fundemental secret to magic...there is no set ritual which brings about specific results, the important aspects of magic are within you

Visualization, concentration and belief.

thanx Vaya I didn't understand what you ment. They work perfectly for me the way I described.
Still have no idea what iching is tho


Oh, the IChing is a chinese phisophical method of fortune telling, after a fashion...iirc, you have a mat with different sections adn coins and depending on what falls where, that tells you your fortune.
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 21, 2006 02:27
Bumping this back up because its now Spring!


Happy Spring everyone! Soak in the sun! Breathe the fresh air! Rejoice in the new life around us!
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 30, 2006 06:00
faintingstar made a new thread, but as it has to do with Wicca, I am putting it here. I am also editing out an objectionable line.

Many Many years ago, I won't say how many , I had this book called Helping Yourself With White Wicca by Al G. Manning. I have several questions that reading the wicca threads here at COE have generated so I thought it best to ask here so that those same persons could reply.

First, is this book I noted any good? Second I seem to recall it having Isis's name and Shiva's name and they are 'gods' from two cultures.

This seemingly 'made up' 'do whatever' thing that wiccans have is rather annoying to me. Someone in some other thread at COE actually started naming spirits after LOTR characters and I read that there are actual LOTR Valar based religions. THE VALAR DO NOT EXSIST THEY WERE MADE UP BY TOLKIEN. This just makes me not believe in ANY religion.

So, why is wicca so made up? And what are real names of real spirits? Does it matter? Do they even know? Do YOU even know? Does anyone involved in ANY religion ever ask important questions as this??

I mean, it just seems like a 'do whatever either it will seem to work or not' this doesn't seem right to me.

I've been a very paganish loving of nature Native Americany-everything-is-sacred Buddhist-don't-hurt-anything-if-possible type of person but I am really confused and this 'whatever'
attitude is even more so.

I guess I just want to know for a FACT WHAT IS REALLY REAL?

Whatever.

PM me if this thread is closed.

Thank You
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 30, 2006 04:05
Well, I could point out that god is really the unknowable, the whole of creation and many other things that our feeble mind couldn't been to fathom, and that spirits are manifistations that we can interpret if we're in the right state of mind, but that it is our very minds and beliefs that give them shapes, so if enough people believe in something it becomes real.

Or just read this and have a chuckle...
http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=80


AS for the book, I've never come accross it, I suggest that one forego anything made by someone with a fake name, and read either on the Quabbalah or Real MAgic by Isaac Bonewits.

Ok Starhawk is the exception to the made up name rule, but that's only because she pulls it off in "spiral dance" but, and this is abig but, she assumes that everyone has a coven handy, so really she's good for jsut the bare bones of wicca and magic.


Nothing made up about it, if you are willing to delve deeper than the surface.
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 31, 2006 01:53
Either it exsists or it does not.



Sorry but this just is begging for a snarky answer.


Wow! Good answer! WEll thought out there! I am so glad I wasted bandwidth with my explanations for that responce.


ok, more seriously...

How do you know? How do you know that things just don't pop out of existence as soon as we forget them?

Absolute certainty in anything is a waste of time and imagination.
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 31, 2006 02:51
Either it exsists or it does not.


I guess this all relys on what your beliefs are. In other words you are basicly asking if God exists or not. I am Catholic (not by choice) and asking us if Wiccan exists or not is just like asking if Christianity exists. Yes, both exist. You can do some research and find writings from way back. Both existed furthur back than the Middle Ages (not really expert on dates so i wont go into that). Do ghosts exist? Like i said, it all depends on what YOU believe not anyone else. As far as i am concerned, yes Wiccan absolutly exists. It is just a matter of going deeper than the surface like Vaya said. I have been studying/practicing Wiccan for only 3 years, but i have learned alot and one of the first things i learned is if you believe it, it exists. I know that well because my whole family thinks its just some sort of stupid stuff when really its not.
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 31, 2006 04:58
Either it exsists or it does not.


if you believe it, it exists. I know that well because my whole family thinks its just some sort of stupid stuff when really its not.


Do you really believe that? That if you believe it it is real? Then it is all right for the Muslims to kill everyone who isn't a Muslim because that is what they believe and it was all right for all those Christians to do the witch trials because they beleive that all witches are evil and according to their god must die.

Either it exsists or it doesn't.

Belief is not fact nor does it become fact even for an instant.

Yet, this has been useful. I am now a confirmed atheist. I will no longer wonder.


[Edited on 1/4/2006 by faintingstar]


Yes, all the pain and suffering in the world is caused by people believing in something, by religion, and fairies, and not because of Greed or selfishness.

Please, I've heard this a million times from people who think they've clinched the answer to everything, but are really just venting years of repressed anger over some childhood trauma to do with religion, and frankly I find them just as arrogant as the most strident of religious folks. Its obvious that you already had made up your mind before you posted, adn frankly I don't appreciate you hijacking this discussion to "make a point" which I really don't care about.

Absolute certainty one way or the other is a dangerous and short sighted thing.

Stop wasting everyone's time. You're not interested in discussion, you're only interested in being "right". And since there is a rule in this forum about starting up on contreversial topics, I humbly ask teh mods to step in at this point, and delete your posts (mine too if they feel like it)
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 31, 2006 05:13
Either it exsists or it does not.


I guess this all relys on what your beliefs are. In other words you are basicly asking if God exists or not. I am Catholic (not by choice) and asking us if Wiccan exists or not is just like asking if Christianity exists. Yes, both exist. You can do some research and find writings from way back. Both existed furthur back than the Middle Ages (not really expert on dates so i wont go into that). Do ghosts exist? Like i said, it all depends on what YOU believe not anyone else. As far as i am concerned, yes Wiccan absolutly exists. It is just a matter of going deeper than the surface like Vaya said. I have been studying/practicing Wiccan for only 3 years, but i have learned alot and one of the first things i learned is if you believe it, it exists. I know that well because my whole family thinks its just some sort of stupid stuff when really its not.


Just a couple of points...Wicca itself is actually pretty new, its based on folk traditions that were alive before Christianity became dominant, and survived down through the ages. It was revived by occultists (like Crowley, but I prefer Dion Fortune), and then again by hippies in California

Witchcraft, the pracitcal use of magic, is more directly related to these folk traditions.
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 31, 2006 05:29
There are things we cannot see (like air). What proof do we have that it exists other than we believe we must have it to breathe?

Have you ever seen anyone die? Seen the light go from their eyes as their spirit departs? How do you prove there is such a thing? It's impossible. Faith is what makes us believe in things we cannot see. Today we have microscopes to show us the tiny world of bacteria. A thousand years ago they had no idea such things existed in their own microcosm. Perhaps someday we will have a way to "prove" that we have souls, but until then, it's a matter of faith.

And no, no one said it was okay to kill people in the name of faith. As I said in my PM to you, faintingstar, people do bad things in the name of religion that would make the originators of said religions spin in their graves. People are fallible. We all are. It's not the religion's fault when their adherents go wonky and start slaying anyone who doesn't believe like they do. It's the people and evil motivations (not the religion) as vaya said.

If you want to believe there is no higher power, then that is your prerogative. I don't really understand what kind of proof you want. Think of it this way, maybe we're made up in some mad man's mind and when he awakens from the dream, we'll be gone.

You've gone from one thing to another wildly, expecting answers to things that have puzzled humankind since we crawled out of the primordial ooze. I don't have them and I don't really believe anyone does. We can only speculate and try to find our way.

That said, if you don't want to hear any explanations from various people, then don't ask. Those here have tried to be polite and give you what they believe is the truth. It's not like you can go visit God or the elements or the spirits of various past dieties in their cozy homes. Mount Olympus exists, but somehow I doubt that the Greek gods actually lived there. The human mind is still poorly understood, but there are some folks that do have the ability to use more than others. Proof is always dicey because, once again, it's not something visible.

If you can only believe in things you can see, touch, hear, smell, or feel with your fingers, then you will find many things invisible. Let us put this behind us and if you wish to discuss things like this elsewhere, like an LJ, go for it. This thread and this forum are for discussions. We can agree to disagree, but politely. For now, I will not expunge any posts, but will expect us to treat each other with respect.

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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 31, 2006 06:22
Just a couple of points...Wicca itself is actually pretty new, its based on folk traditions that were alive before Christianity became dominant, and survived down through the ages. It was revived by occultists (like Crowley, but I prefer Dion Fortune), and then again by hippies in California

Witchcraft, the pracitcal use of magic, is more directly related to these folk traditions.


Im fairly new (3 yrs.) and i guess when i talk about it, (or in this case write) since there is a whole lot out there i seem to just say "Wiccan" because i have read so much and done so much from so many different types that after awhile it all seems to lump together. Yes, i know, bad Burzlondewen. Thanks for the info though!
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: March 31, 2006 06:53
Good point, vaya. Most of today's pagan paths are reconstructions from what little we know of them. Most were oral traditions and the only writings came from the Romans and Christians of that time. During the revival in the 1700's a lot of fantastical stuff got published as being real, but it was more just what the people of that time wanted it to be. The commonalities between various "primitive" peoples around the world that honor the directions, the elements, and spirit, calling them different names, seems to indicate that though we have developed along different ways, there is sort of a primal memory that calls to us.

Pretty much, as long as you don't try hurt others, pagans don't get too wonky about how you go about celebrating life and the world around us. Some may say "You have to do it this way," but it's more like "I found this worked for me."

Does that sound reasonable?
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: April 01, 2006 02:52
Oh yes...but I Should point out, some witches get really tetchy about people calling themselves "Wiccan" especially when they are eclectics (like me)....

Even Wicca has its fundy's.

As for the development of Wicca, I suggest reading up on Dion Fortune, who wrote a few books, fiction yet, but they are really good tools in understanding a lot of occultist concepts.
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: April 01, 2006 07:08
I'll have to look that author up. And yeah, there are indeed folks who believe you have to do things only a certain way. I wonder if they were like that in their previous spiritual path? Hmm... May be part of their personality as well. I sort of call my self Druid, but in really I'm eclectic as wel. I prefer the Native American stance that an individual's spiritual path is his or her own and not to be dictated by others.
vaya
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: April 01, 2006 08:40
I'll have to look that author up. And yeah, there are indeed folks who believe you have to do things only a certain way. I wonder if they were like that in their previous spiritual path?


I have noticed that with people who convert/change spiritual paths/or denounce god all together. They tend to follow in a similar style to their old ways.

Sometimes they deny it, I've noticed that more with witches who were Christian, particulalry from the more evangelical or fundementalist churches, but their still in a very strict mindset. Same with atheists who went from a very strict religious upbringing to deciding god doesn't exist. They (both witches and atheists) tend to be the vocal crowd who insult and denounce Christianity every chance they get.

Jewish witches seem to keep their Jewish identity, hence I diddn't refer to them as "former jews".

I was raised by hippie methodists, and keep a lot of what I learned in the church with me.


On a more conterversy related message board I said to one such atheist "You can take the man out of church, but you can't take the church out of the man"
Burzlondewen
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: April 01, 2006 07:41
100 percent. Scientific proof.


lol im sorry but all religions are faith-based. If you want scientific proof then you better start looking for Noah's Arc to prove that Christianity exists. Now doesnt that sound tacky? Acually, some guy thinks he found the arc in Turkey...it was on a show a week or so ago.

I really won't know unless I ask so I did. I am trying to KNOW FOR A FACT.


Well, with your theory of having to know for a fact you are not going to find it here.

And like I said before I am NOT trying to be unrespectful.


We cannot see you in person and in writing, the tone of your writing is all we got. And quite clearly people have been giving you answers then you go right back and bash them. Or excuse me, arguing back in a very unrespectful way. So please, go somewhere else for your questions because obviously we have already given you answers and i know people dont want this thread shut down because of arguing... and if you had read Bellbayard's post, it was quite clear to end the discussion before it becomes world war 3 in here.
Burzlondewen
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Post RE: The Wiccan/Pagan potluck thread
on: April 01, 2006 07:56
"You can take the man out of church, but you can't take the church out of the man"


Hmm...very thought-provoking, made me think awhile on that one .
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