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Naneth

Elvish 101 Moderator
Posts: 568
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: June 12, 2004 12:49

It might be possible to get the basics down in two months, but you'll probably still be using reference charts.

Lady_Eowyn_Of_Rohan_03

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: June 15, 2004 05:01

Hey, this forum looks really good. Very nice, you guys have lots of links that may help me. I want to learn Quenya with my friend who is also learning from CoE. Quenya is more complete than Sindarin, so it should be easier.

Another thing that may help is to translate, but havbe a conversation with a friend who is also learning. I learned Anglo-Saxon runes that way. I don't know all the punctuation and the combinations, but I can send messages to my friends.

Saelwen_Silivren

CoE Volunteer
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: June 21, 2004 08:00

Someone once told me that the best way to determine the stress of a word was to pretend that it was a child you were calling home to dinner... This works in 99% of all words(:

The part that rises is the stress in the word, ie. GER-ald, auto-BO-dy, etc.

[Edited on 22/6/2004 by Eletintale]

Arwin_of_Rivendell

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: July 04, 2004 06:15

That's a good way to look at how to stress. It's helpful. I was also wondering about something. In the movies they say hannon le for I thank you. While everyone on this site says le hannon. Is there a certain way that thank you is supposed to say it or is it a personal preference? Just an observation. Also, how does everyone come up with a good Sindarin name? It seems very difficult to do so and I wanted to know if there is a certain way how. Thanks.

Naneth

Elvish 101 Moderator
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: July 05, 2004 06:10

If you think of a meaning you would like in a name, you can then request a Sindarin equivalent here at CoE:
http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Semantics&file=index

There really is no attested way to say "thank you" in Sindarin. Hannon le/Le hannon are two neo-Sindarin ways that vaguely mean something on the order of "thank you". While not as widely accepted, you might want to use attested words for this expression. "To thank" when looking it up in a thesaurus is as follows:

Entry: thank
Function: verb
Definition: express gratitude
Synonyms: acknowledge, be grateful, be indebted, be obligated, be obliged, BLESS, bow down, give thanks, kiss, PRAISE, show appreciation, show courtesy, show gratitude, smile on
Concept: PRAISE

I capitalized the words we have attestations for ... "praise" and "blessings".

Something like "Eglerio !!" (which the people shout in praise to Frodo and Sam) or "Galu le" meaning "Blessings to you" might be nice.

Araegon

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: July 25, 2004 01:28

what is the language spoken in the movie lord of the rings? and which one would be easier to start of on?

Squee13

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: August 03, 2004 05:00

i have some tips ^_^

i only just started sindarin and am on lession 5 of the sindarin lessions here but nontheless i still got some tips ^_^

1) binders!!!! u dont know how much easier it is to learn something while u actually read it from pages and not hte computer screen. plus u can lay down in a bed or on a chouch and study.

2) dont just use other ppls charts for things. MAKE UR OWN! im not tring it be rude but it is much more helpful if u actually make the chart. first of u know exactly what everything is that u read on the chart since u made it. second it helps to grind the knowledge into ur mind of what ur charting. finally its a great way to get used to the feeling of writing in sindarin.

3) translate anything u can find even if u dont know too much. start off with little things like a saying that u know or something. and dont forget to WRITE IT DOWN! this way u can go back and look at it to correct it later. it will help u learn better.

4) i guess i should have put this earlier but keep a journal or notebook for ur own thoughts and works on sindarin. as the mods have said sindarin is a lesser known language since all of its changes and evolutions. so that means that any ideas u realize may actually be true and make sence to others. once u get better u can post some of those ideas here and start a discusion on things and maybe help further complete the language. also it will help u remember vocab better and get a hang for the structure and grammer of hte language.

5) when ever u read sindarin words say them to urself. it helps u with pronunciation and learning the stress points.

6) dont just read a lession once. read it once through slowly. then read it again faster after taht. then leave it for a hour or 2 and come back and read it once more. then go back after a day or two and reread it. but dont hesitate to move on in the lessions during those days ur waiting to reread the lession. this way u will be able to fully understand the lession. and when u have read things further down the lession plan the things that didnt make sence to u in the earlier lessions will usually make more sence.

well thats my 2 cents on learning sindarin. hope it helps ppl ^_^

fasa09

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: August 15, 2004 03:31

I was just reading through here and noticing how many people said to print it out...

Here's a tip for tact tile (touch) learners like myself. WRITE IT DOWN. Don't print it. It helps a lot. I had no idea how to spell czecoslovakia until I closed my eyes and spelled it with my fingers. It works the same when you're trying to learn a word. When you write it down, the nerves in your hand and brain are working together and it helps you memorize it. I just figured I'd post that for anyone that has trouble reading over it and learning it visually, you could very well be the same kind of learner as me. I couldn't learn something visually to save my life, even if I read over it a hundred times. Once you've got a pretty good idea (or think you do) of what the words mean and how to pronounce them, that's when you can transfer over to flashcards. That method has saved my behind on a bunch of tests and is helping me learn Quenya.

Iavas

rochvellon
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: August 15, 2004 04:25

I had no idea how to spell czecoslovakia

Czechoslovakia, rather!

(I'm only teasing, so don't take it too seriously! :hug:

You're tip for writing things out is a very good one. I learn things better that way myself.

[Edited on 16/8/2004 by Iavas]

fasa09

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: August 16, 2004 11:50

AHHHHH the H! Hehehehe.

I guess it doesn't work if you only do it once. It seriously helps though... I've used it to memorize stuff for fill in the blank tests and spelling tests back when I still had them.
Spelling it 'czecoslovokia' is better than the 'czecaslovackia' I had a couple of years ago.

curlyq

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: August 19, 2004 02:53

Hey, I'm new to CoE... It looks amazing though. I've been meaning to learn Sindarin for quite a while now, but never got around to it. These are great tips, thankies a ton to everyone who posted!

I have a friend who also wants to learn, and I'm sure that'll be a huge help to be able to speak it with someone.

Thanks once again! Now I'm off to start my binder! XD

Melannen118

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: August 20, 2004 01:19

Suilad!!!! I was wondering If I have to print out the dictionaries... or if there is a place where I can just buy one. Ive started to print out the lessons too, should I print out all of them at once? or one at a time as I get to them? Help would be greatley appriciated!!!!

Eruanneth_Luin

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: September 03, 2004 01:36

Suilad to all,

Just wanted to add a couple of helpful ideas.

Anytime I read a word in Sindarin I also pronounce it out loud. Practicing vocally aids in such things as those challenging trilled R's and the more intriguing aspirants.

To help memoryize the meanings of objects you can place a sticky note on it. And for non-objects use different colored sticky notes for nouns, verb, etc. Put them in plain sight and read and speak them everytime you walk by.

Also singing in Sindarin is fun. Tara has a couple of of verses with sound files Song of the Wandering Elves and the Steward Song; you can hear sing. http://members.cox.net/taramiluiel/translations.htm

Eruanneth04

~Arwen~

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: September 03, 2004 08:52

4.) To help with Sindarin Verbs, there are charts of most of the Sindarin verbs already completely conjugated for you on the same downloads page as the Mutation Chart. They print out on about 8 pages. Be sure to have your printer set to "Landscape" for these charts !! Change your printer setting to "Landscape" by clicking "File", then "Page Setup", then click "Landscape" under Orientation. Once you do that, click "OK" and the box will disappear. Proceed to print as you normally would then. To change it back to "Portrait", retrace the above steps and click "Portrait" instead of "Landscape".
http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=EZCMS&file=index&page_id=3

5.) To help you understand the concepts behind the conjugations, there are charts for "How to Conjugate Sindarin Verbs". These charts will take you through the i-umlauts, intervocalic changes, etc. which result in the different verb forms. They also print out on about 8 pages ... set printer to "Portrait" for these charts. They are also on the same downloads page: http://www.councilofelrond.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=EZCMS&file=index&page_id=3

can't access those two

~Arwen~

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: September 03, 2004 09:17

I cant access to most of the links!

[Edited on 5/9/2004 by Naneth]

Naneth

Elvish 101 Moderator
Posts: 568
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: September 04, 2004 10:45

Thanks for pointing that out ~Arwen~ !! When we changed over to the new software, those links became outdated. They're all fixed now !!

MelannenMedliwen

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: September 12, 2004 09:03

I've been studying Latin in school for 4 years and I've got 2 more years to go. Does anyone know wether that helps with studying either of the two languages?

FÃriel

Enethdan Edhellen
Posts: 1369
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: September 12, 2004 07:49

Hello Melannen,

Like Latin, Quenya is also a highly inflected language (a Quenya noun has several cases, for example), and is actually called 'Elven-latin' by Tolkien (although that's probably because of the ceremonial role played by Quenya in Middle Earth), so it does have some similiarities. If you're used to how Latin works, Sindarin might be a bit more difficult for you (however, don't let that put you off!

). However, I would think that anybody who can successfully study a second language picks up the knack to learning additional languages, so as long as you're really motivated and inspired, studying an Elvish language should be no big problem.

elleth_alfirion

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: September 28, 2004 09:18

Thanks a lot for the tips! I'm starting to learn Sindarin and I'm sure they will come in very handy!

Slina

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: October 10, 2004 05:33

Suilad! Well, I finally decided to get down to learning Sindarin. But I have some questions. What order should I do things in? Should I go through lessons before learning vocabulary, or at the same time? And when should I start doing the workbooks, after I've gone through all the lessons or at the same time? And how long should I spend on each lesson, and how do I know I'm ready to move on the next lesson?

gwendeth

Accounts Admin, Sindarin Mod & Head Stargazer of Varda
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: October 11, 2004 10:00

Well, the lessons DO 'contain' vocabulary.

For me - the best way was to do the Workbook at the end of each lesson. As to how 'much' time you spend on each one - that's up to you and your 'comfort level', I think. It is 'self-paced'.

I'd say that when you've seen each workbook exercise has been corrected ~ and unless you need to 're-do' it, you're probably ready for the next lesson.

"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"

Arantraneth

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: October 22, 2004 09:23

I am starting with Quenya dialect first. I am already getting quite good at writing in tengwar. It (tengwar) almost looks like drawing:heart: And I just:heart::heart::heart: to draw.

EvenstarofLegolas

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 12, 2004 11:35

Is there a way to print out the dictionary quickly? I can only have a certain amount of time on the internet cause when I'm on no one can use the phone (and cause my mum doesn't want me on all day!) I'm trying to learn Elvish and I'm right on the part where I need the dictionary! Could someone please help? I'm desperate!!!

FÃriel

Enethdan Edhellen
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 12, 2004 01:38

Hmm. You could print out an entire volume of the Tolkien Language Dictionaries at COE if you really needed to, by doing the following:

1. Go to the appropriate section; e.g. English to Sindarin. You'll see a link, 'Export This Volume'. Click on it.

2. Then you'll see a button, 'Export Entire Volume'. Click on it.

3. The browser will then load a page which contains all the words in that volume and which is ready to print.

However, would your mother mind you printing out so many pages? The English to Sindarin volume, for example, appears to come out to 73 pages.

EvenstarofLegolas

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 15, 2004 03:47

Thanks I'll try that. Can you just save the whole thing on your computer? I'll try it out. Thanks again!!!!:love:

FÃriel

Enethdan Edhellen
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 15, 2004 04:31

Oh yes, you could do that, in fact that would be better

-- just select Save instead of Print once you've got that extremely long page. Another excellent Sindarin dictionary is Dragon Flame, which you can download to your computer.

EvenstarofLegolas

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 16, 2004 12:29

Thank you so much! I am in your dept.

It worked to save it!!! Yippee! I am SOhappy! Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!

LadyEowyn_Of_Rohan

CoE Volunteer
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 18, 2004 02:56

The English to Sindarin volume, for example, appears to come out to 73 pages.

I got mine to eight pages.

- Copy it into Microsoft Word or another word processor.
- Put the font in size 8 or as small as you can read it.
- Take out the extra empty line between every defnition.
- Put the text into two columns.
- Print the odd pages.
- Turn the pages so they're in chronological order but each page is facing backwards. Put them back in the printer and print the even pages.

My study buddy, Glasseth, had a really good idea: If one person is farther ahead than the other, they can both practice by one writing sentences and the other translating.

FÃriel

Enethdan Edhellen
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 21, 2004 02:58

I got mine to eight pages...

Thank you, Lady Eowyn, that's a fantastic tip! I got mine to a very satisfactory 16 pages (with some nice formatting).

Not sure if I've already mentioned it, but my study buddy and I used to play 'Who am I?' with each other in Sindarin, and it was great fun.

Mormegil_Black_Sword

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 22, 2004 08:46

I am new to this site, but have some experiance with the Elven tounges. Mostly from the Appendixes in the Return of the King and in the Silmarillion. And have tried to translate somethings into English and some from english to Quenya? This is the one I spent the most time on. It was for a friend. Urulokiwen as i remeber Uru ment fire loki ment snake/worm and wen was maiden so it is supposed to mean Dragon Maiden. What I want to know is did I get it right? Thx

[Edited on 22/11/2004 by Mormegil_Black_Sword]

[Edited on 22/11/2004 by Mormegil_Black_Sword]

Naneth

Elvish 101 Moderator
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 22, 2004 04:14

Hi Mormegil_Black_Sword !! You should probably post this question up in the Quenya forum !! You'll get an answer much quicker !!

Malinornë

FAQ Admin, Quenya Moderator & EldameldÃ«
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 22, 2004 09:39

Urulokiwen as i remeber Uru ment fire loki ment snake/worm and wen was maiden so it is supposed to mean Dragon Maiden.

Aiya Mormegil!
Urulokiwen looks fine to me, you might just want to add an acute accent for the long ó. Also, though there is one mention of "lóki" being the singular form, "lóke" is the far more used (with "lóki" the plural), so I'd translate Dragon Maiden as Urulókewen (alternative spelling Urulócewen). It's also possible to have a shorter form Lókewen, as just "lóke" means "dragon" too.

Mormegil_Black_Sword

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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 23, 2004 08:48

Thank you very much Malinornë!! How do you get the accent marks?

FÃriel

Enethdan Edhellen
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RE: Tips For Newbies !!
on: November 23, 2004 12:52