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CocoSolo
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: June 06, 2011 11:52
Hi,
Can Anybody Translate
"One does not simply walk into Mordor?" in to one of the three Elvish dialects?
I'd be eternally grateful.
Sincerely,
Marie
xx
Sairalindë_Táralóm
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: June 11, 2011 06:18
Mae Govannen!

I'm currently learning Sindarin and wanted to find a translation for "I love you". I checked online and came up with this:

"amin mela lle"
Since this source came from the Grey Company (a site that, mentioned here, was not highly recommended), I wanted to make sure this was legit. Can you all help me?

Thank you,
Sairalindë Táralóm
Tinw
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: June 14, 2011 01:39
As you say, Sairalinde, this comes from the Grey Company.
Just forget it as soon as possible.
Unlike in modern English, in Sindarin the phrase here depends on how familar you want to adress your counterpart. The pronouns for this would be either le (formal form) or gen (familiar form of 'you').
The verb might be melin or melon 'I love'. As much as we know until today, both could be possible. No difference in meaning.
So we get le/gen melin. Or also le/gen melon.
TatharLissësúl
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: June 29, 2011 09:23
Hi! not really sure where to post but these looked to be the best place....I'm looking for some Sindarin lessons in Spanish...any idea where i could find some?
Gilwileth
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: June 29, 2011 08:01
Is Sindarin a very complicated language to learn?
LaurelintheGolden
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 03, 2011 06:19
Hello,

I was hoping someone could translate "Snow White" into Sindarin, as a name, just like the Disney character.

Much thanks!

[Edited on 3/7/2011 by LaurelintheGolden]
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 03, 2011 09:49
Hi,

Well the adjective gloss means exactly 'snow-white'; you could, perhaps, make it a name by using one of the feminine endings: Glossiel or Glosseth.

The other option, as a 'literal' translation, you could use Loss Faen (loss - snow, noun; faen - white, adjective).
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
LaurelintheGolden
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 03, 2011 11:53
You're prompt reply is most appreciated.

Thanks, gwendeth!
alex117
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 05, 2011 05:50
Hello everyone I am having a custom sword made and I need a good name for it. I would like to name it "dawns light" or "the light of dawn" I just started studying the language and need help translating this from english to sindarin. Any thoughts on these names or any other suggestions or comments I would really appreciate. Thanks
EldarExilePrincess
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 10, 2011 03:25
I want to check this phrase I put together using the reference on this site:

Gwanod uin Yrn

I'm hoping I did it correctly so it means: Tale of the Large Trees.

Le hannon, mellyn.
Tinw
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 10, 2011 06:01
Gwanod means "count" (= number) and not the telling of a story.
Tale (story) would be narn.
And uin is a local preposition which means "(coming) from". It can´t be used for genitive constructions.
'Tale of the trees' would rather be Narn Yrn (uninflected genitive) or Narn in-Yrn if you prefer a genitive marker.

Edit:
Sorry, I didn´t realize there were still more requests left.

>Spanish lessons
Tathar, have a look at Parma Telpelssiva. There you will find a link.

>Brigthly with beauty
We have no single word meaning "with". But you could just say "brightly and beautiful". Beautiful should be bain (beautiful, fair), bân (fair, good, wholesome, favourable) or dell/dail (lovely, beautiful, fine).
Brightly could be galed (shining clear; gerund of verb gal- 'shine clear') or calen (fresh, vigorous and bright) or glân (bright, shining white). Depends on which context you choose. And please remember: a/ah 'and' causes sibilant mutation in the following word.

>Sindarin complicated to learn?
Depends on how you define 'complicated', Gwilwileth.

>dawn´s light
calad minuial Light of the morrowdim.



[Edited on 10/7/2011 by Tinw]

[Edited on 10/7/2011 by Tinw]

[Edited on 10/7/2011 by Tinw]
EldarExilePrincess
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 10, 2011 06:44
Gwanod means "count" (= number) and not the telling of a story.
Tale (story) would be narn.
And uin is a local preposition which means "(coming) from". It can´t be used for genitive constructions.
'Tale of the trees' would rather be Narn Yrm (uninflected genitive) or Narn in-Yrm if you prefer a genitive marker.


Wow...how did I mess that up? Good thing I checked! I like Narn in-Yrm best. Le hannon for your help!

Oh, and just to make sure, its yrm not yrn, correct?

[Edited on 10/7/2011 by EldarExilePrincess]
Tinw
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 10, 2011 07:04
Sorry, that was a stupid typo. Yrn (Plural of orn ) of course.
EldarExilePrincess
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 13, 2011 12:42
So it's Narn in-Yrn...not Narn-in-Yrn like Ost-in-Edhil? Just trying to get it correct And thanks again.
Ailinel
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 13, 2011 11:11
The hyphens are optional, they would not appear in Tengwar writing anyway, cf. narn i Chîn Húrin etc.



[Edited on 14/7/2011 by Ailinel]
EldarExilePrincess
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 16, 2011 06:42
ok thanks
duns
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 20, 2011 08:47
Hi, I've just joined up for some help really! My fiance is a HUGE LOTR fan and he had my engagement ring engraved in Elvish with something personal which he had translated. The wedding is all booked and we have the rings, and I thought it would be a nice gesture if I got his wedding ring engraved with something personal in Elvish too as a surprise for on the big day. I have no idea where he got it translated and was wondering if anyone here could help?

Many thanks in advance

Jo (Duns)
EldarExilePrincess
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: July 23, 2011 08:12
I am trying to get Spirit Trees into Sindarin; would it be Yrn Faer?
Or Fear-in-Yrn? Le hannon.
gildor42
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: October 15, 2011 03:55
Hey there is a song that I want to translate in to elvish its out of the two towers and I don't know how to do that so maybe you can help me
Uialdil_i_degilbor
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: November 21, 2011 10:46
Here is my translation of theTersanctus prayer. I originally translated it some time ago; this is a revised version. It is based mainly on the Greek form of the prayer, but I referred to the Latin translation on a few points. Notes follow.

Aer, Aer, Aer i-Chîr gwith. Menel ar Ceven paint en-aglar În. Hósanna vi Tarvenel. Gaestan i tôl an i-eneth e-Hîr. Hósanna i vi Tarvenel.

'Holy, Holy, Holy (is) the Lord of Hosts. Heaven and Earth (are) full of His glory. Hosanna in the highest. Blessed (is He) who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna in the highest.

Notes:
aer: 'holy' (attested in Ae Adar nín).

gwith: pl. of gweth 'host'.

paint: pl. of pant 'full' (sing. attested in the King's Letter) (Construction of paint en-aglar în is based on analogy with Q. quanta Eruanno 'full of grace in Aia María).

Hósanna: the original Hebrew word literally means 'save us', but is used as an exclamation of praise here. I suppose eglerio might be used rather than a Sindarinised transcription of the Latinised transcription of the Greek transcription of the Hebrew word.

*Tarvenel: tar + menel (lenited) = 'high heaven'. (Tolkien used mi Tarmenel for 'in excelsis' in his Q translation of Gloria in excelsis Deo).

*gaestan: deduced from Q. aistana 'blessed'.

an: 'for'. Though the Greek and Latin (and Welsh) use the word for 'in', some felt that vi has too locative of a connotatin to be used in this context, so I used an instead.

i-eneth: 'the name' (attested in Ae Adar nín).

i: the Greek has the relative pronoun in the final line ('Ósanna ho en tois hypsistois).

[Edited on 8/4/2004 by Uialdil_i_degilbor]
Malinornë
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: November 21, 2011 10:46

(Construction of paint en-aglar în is based on analogy with Q. quanta Eruanno 'full of grace in Aia María).


I suspect that the function of the genitive case in Quenya may be somewhat different than that of the Sindarin genitive article, so perhaps "na", as in "with, by" could be an alternative to "en" here?

My Greek is too rusty for me to comment on how close this follows the original, but the translation looks nice
Naneth
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: November 21, 2011 10:48
Here's a small list of "agents" (nouns that are "doers")..... and how they were formed (from a verb, adjective, or noun). I think that's what IdhrenethMeril had in mind.

taur (noun) = forest
tauron = forester

had- (verb) = hurl
hador = thrower of spears
hadron = thrower of spears

gad- (verb) = catch
gador = prison .... keeper of a catch

cab- (verb) = leap
cabor = leaper

bach (noun) = article for exchange
bachor = pedlar

maetha- (verb) = to battle
maethor = warrior

thala (adjective) = strong dauntless
thalion = hero

girith (noun) = shuddering
girithron = maker of shuddering (december)

lathra- (verb) = eavesdrop
lathron = eavesdropper

edledhia- (verb) = to exile
edledhron = exile (person who is exiled)


[Edited on 28/2/2004 by Naneth]
IdhrenethMeril
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: November 21, 2011 11:14
There isn't a single Sindarin word for eclipse, but you could convey the same meaning (in my opinion) with one of two choices. I think 'sun-shadow' and 'moon-shadow' could be passable translations, depending on if you're talking about a solar eclipse or a lunar eclipse.

sun-shadow --> Anordhúath, Anordhae
moon-shadow --> Ithildhúath, Ithildhae

-Idhreneth
gwendeth
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: November 21, 2011 11:17
Hey there is a song that I want to translate in to elvish its out of the two towers and I don't know how to do that so maybe you can help me

Hi gildor42, it would help to know which song you want to translate. it's possible that someone already has and I can find the translation for you.
"Tolo si, a tiro i cherth Eru" "Come now, and see the works of God"
Dracovana
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Post RE: Translations Thread
on: December 28, 2011 06:53
Hey I need a poem I wrote translated into Sindarin. Feel free to make any necessary changes. Thanks for anyone who accepts the challenge. =]
Númie
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Post Re: Translations Thread
on: March 11, 2012 03:55
Hi, a little help with translation from english to sindarin would be greatly appreciated, I have tried on my own but did not really manage.

The sentence I would like translated is: I am deeply ashamed.

Thank you!
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Post Re: Translations Thread
on: April 16, 2012 11:30
I was trying to come up with a name meaning "Spirit of Fire" when I realized that is exactly what Fëanor's name means. Maybe I have bias because I know Fëanor is a real name that Tolkien himself invented, but I feel like none of the other different ways of saying "spirit of fire" sound proper or as good as Fëanor does.

Any suggestions for a translation of "spirit of fire" other than Fëanor?

I've though of Úrind and Naurind. I like "ind" for spirit, though I don't know if I like the sound of starting a name with Úr. It doesn't sound right.

Thanks!
cenedrilceredir
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Post Re: Translations Thread
on: May 24, 2012 11:09
Hello? I was wondering if some one can help me find a decent translator for a story I am writing. I have had a bloody heck of a time trying to find a translation for just these three phrases. and I am gong to need more later.

"She is awakening" "Good, I will inform the queen" "One should wonder what is to be done with her." The elves in my story find it the hight of rudeness (for other elves) to ask questions. I am basing my elves somewhat off of Mercedes Lackey's elves from "The Obsidian Trillogy"
Galadivren
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Post Re: Translations Thread
on: May 24, 2012 06:00
She is awakening:
T'echuiad
Te = She is (becomes T' because it is before a vowel)
Echuia- + gerund ending = awakening

Good, I will inform the queen:
Ma, pedithon an i [vereth/rîn/rîs]

There are three words for Queen, hence the choice in brackets above
Ma = Good
Pedithon = Ped- + 1st person future tense verb ending (it's actually 'I will speak to' as there's no verb for 'to inform' and I didn't feel that 'tell a tale to' really fitted the context).
an = to
i = the

Your last one is a bit of a difficult one:

Min idhren man no córiel adh den
Which comes out as:
One (is) pondering what (is) to be done with her

There's no verb for 'to wonder', ponder is a good synonym but there's no verb for it (I could reconstruct one for you if you want).

Min = One
idhren = pondering
man = what
no = to be
córiel = done (past tense active participle 'having been done')
adh = with
den = her (ten, lenited)

Quick note on 'is' and 'are = Sindarin doesn't have them, they're implied.

Also with the 'should' part of your sentence, Sindarin doesn't have a conditional tense, the future tense is all 'I will do' not 'I would do'.
Naruvir
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Post Re: Translations Thread
on: May 25, 2012 07:35
I disagree with above translations for many reasons, some are:

1) "is awakening" is obviously the present verb conjugation, thus there is no reason for you to use an autonomous pronoun (which by extension is uncertain and in this example, very strangely mutated) + gerund.

2) Min is numeral, not some kind of generic way to refer to an indefinite person.

3) Adh is probably derived from ar, but I don't understand its use over here.

I'm admittedly somewhat drunk at the moment (alas!) but I'll further comment on the morrow.
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Naruvir
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on: May 25, 2012 05:14
OK! I have returned with more comments, which aren't meant to discourage, but rather trigger a discussion how we might translate these sentences. Suffice to say, they aren't trivial.

She is awakening
I believe that we might translate this sentence using verb at present tense or the emphatic pronoun for she with the verb stem:

Echuia
She is awakening

E echuia
She is awakening

The latter is obviously more emphatic, but that's exactly it's function!

Good, I will inform the queen
I believe this translation to be much better, but based on le linnathon and several other examples in the corpus, I believe that an is redundant / Anglicism.

Ma, pedithon i [vereth/rîn/rîs]
Good! I will speak to the queen

One should wonder what is to be done with her
This is one of those very, very English sentences, where it is particularly important that you do not translate word-for-word but rather look at the context. There are unfortunately crucial mood lost in the sentence: is the Elf positively curious, or would he/she rather not know at all, dreading what might yet happen to whomever that just awoke?

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Galadivren
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Post Re: Translations Thread
on: May 25, 2012 05:58
'adh' to mean 'by/with' as well as 'and before a vowel' was championed by Dreamingfifi actually. (Incidentally I don't use 'ar').

I'm well aware min is the number for one, but short of using pen for someone, you're a tad limited.

Echuia is 'she awakens', I made the -ing, the gerund, a lot more blatant. Yes you can argue they're interchangeable, 'she awakens, she is awakening', but if there's a) a way to say 'she is' and b) a way to say 'awakening' I don't really see why you couldn't say it. And aye I could have used the emphatic, at the main site I do translations I do tend to give a lot of options for those sort of things for people to choose from, I was just rather busy at the time!

I'll admit I had a slight special moment with 'an i' as obviously they should actually be the combined 'anin' pronoun if anything.

Going back to the 'strangely mutated pronoun'. Dreamingfifi uses nominative pronouns before a vowel as T' or S' etc, using 'Mae G'ovannen' as the basis, I tend to agree with her.

*shrug*
Naruvir
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Post Re: Translations Thread
on: May 25, 2012 07:19
'adh' to mean 'by/with' as well as 'and before a vowel' was championed by Dreamingfifi actually. (Incidentally I don't use 'ar').

The etymology of ar was also something that Tolkien revised many times due to printing discrepancies in the way the people of Gondor cried out to Samwise and Frodo: Daur a Berhael, Conin en Annûn, eglerio!

I am not sure how she translates adh to with though.

Echuia is 'she awakens', I made the -ing, the gerund, a lot more blatant. Yes you can argue they're interchangeable, 'she awakens, she is awakening', but if there's a) a way to say 'she is' and b) a way to say 'awakening' I don't really see why you couldn't say it. And aye I could have used the emphatic, at the main site I do translations I do tend to give a lot of options for those sort of things for people to choose from, I was just rather busy at the time!

Based on the corpus, however, the gerund form is used where you'd usually have the infinitive and sometimes as a noun.

Going back to the 'strangely mutated pronoun'. Dreamingfifi uses nominative pronouns before a vowel as T' or S' etc, using 'Mae G'ovannen' as the basis, I tend to agree with her.

The etymological issue with mae govannen is that G doesn't undergo lenition. The word is govad (< go-men) and as Tolkien was pleased with the greeting and wanted to keep it that way, he experimented with several alternatives to motivate this phrase.

In one of the revisions, he even glossed covad- as meet, but soon scrapped it in favour of mae ci-govannen, thus enabling him to retain govad- without loosing the G to lenition.

Dreamingfifi reduced from the way this compound is formed a general rule that she applies to every pronoun, and takes lenition even to loosely related word formations (SVO). All of this is highly speculative, especially as ci-govannen > covannen is a compound.

Sindarin is a very phonetical language in that phonetics quite often takes precedence over grammar (which by extension is not very well known.) Looking at **t'echuiad, or other similar constructions, it ought to become plain that you risk impeding the way the word is pronounced, moving in the worst of scenarios the intonation. Moreover, from a listener's point of view, it can't possibly be clear what you are trying to say. Mae govannen doesn't suffer from this, as even if the presence of ci is unknown (unobserved) the sense of what the speaker is trying to say is plain anyways, as govannen is the perfect participle of govad-.

If there is anything I can say about this language, is that it's an entertaining diversion from structure and facts. By translating something into Neo-Sindarin, you step into the shoes of a researcher and historian!
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Galadivren
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Post Re: Translations Thread
on: May 25, 2012 10:22
Actually I'd pronounce it with a glottal stop so it wouldn't affect the pronunciation at all, but I will leave this conversation (and probably this forum). I am well aware of most of what you just wrote, so I don't particularly appreciate being spoken to as if I'm either a novice, or an idiot.

Edit - meh that was a toys out of the pram moment (I blame it on the heat and hormones).

I've spent a lot of time with languages, and I adore Sindarin particularly - I've spent a lot of effort to get to the point where I do a lot of translations and can say many things in it without having to sit down and think about it (obviously I'll never have the fluency in it I do with some of my other languages, even Old English due to vocabulary [which is something else I have spent a lot of time on incidentally, increasing the vocabulary, though if you're not a fan of non-attested material then meh] but I can get it as far as possible).
Naruvir
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Post Re: Translations Thread
on: May 25, 2012 10:55
Quote from Galadivren on May 26, 2012, 08:22
Actually I'd pronounce it with a glottal stop so it wouldn't affect the pronunciation at all, but I will leave this conversation (and probably this forum). I am well aware of most of what you just wrote, so I don't particularly appreciate being spoken to as if I'm either a novice, or an idiot.

I certainly didn't mean to offend you and you have to remember that this is a forum dedicated to the translation as well as the study of Sindarin. That's why I'm explaining these concepts in detail.

Besides, if you weren't aware of these things, I would at least give you constructive criticism as to why I believe your translations might be improved.

[...] though if you're not a fan of non-attested material then meh] but I can get it as far as possible).

I am a fan of both Neo-Sindarin and Quenya, else I wouldn't be here at all, but I believe in the research and the consideration of all attested material, before I would pick up on something constructed by someone else.
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