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Erumelmo
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Post OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 01, 2007 06:00
I have just joined the role-playing world, and in a matter of days I have realized that I quite like it! I prefer to keep my characters as close to Tolkien’s world as possible – I guess, the right word would be “canon”. I have been writing in a dramatic thread that deals with the first kinslaying at Alqualondë, and since I joined in a bit late there, a few of my main characters have been left alone at Araman.

You see, only one of them Fanuiamarth has progressed with Fëanor to Middle-Earth, while Erumelmo, Elerossë and Elnaira are stranded with the host of Fingolfin at Araman. As mentioned in the Silmarillion, the host is led by Fingolfin, Galadriel and Finrod across the shifting ice, Helcaraxë onto the plains of Lammoth. This journey takes three years in all, essentially.

The timeline during the Years of the Trees, the First Age, gathered with great gratitude from wikipedia:
• 4995 - Fëanor and his sons swear an oath to regain the Silmarils and the majority of the Noldor depart from Valinor; Noldor kill many Teleri and seize their ships in the First Kinslaying.
• 4996 - Prophecy of Mandos: the Noldor are banished from Valinor and face great doom; the Valar hide Valinor behind the Magic Isles and raise the Pelóri mountains.
• 4997 - Melkor returns to Angband, and tries to take Beleriand: First Battle of Beleriand is fought; Denethor of the Laiquendi slain and the Havens of the Falas are besieged. The Noldor arrive at Helcaraxë; Fëanor and his host betray the sons of Indis and sail across, then burn the ships. Return of the Noldor to Middle-earth. Morgoth's army attacks Fëanor. Dagor-nuin-Giliath ("the Battle under Stars") is fought. Fëanor is slain by Balrogs in sight of Angband.
• The Valar begin devising the Moon and Sun
• 5000 - The remainder of the Noldor arrives in Middle-earth; the Moon arises.

I know the idea of writing about characters crossing over mountains of ice seems pointless, but I wish to differ. In creating the very scope of Helcaraxë, Tolkien has mentioned very little, so the capacity for description increases by bounds. Moreover, the elves suffered great hardships and tragedy over the ice and that is a base from where stories can be created. I also feel it gives ample opportunity to interact with the great High-Elves, Fingolfin, his sons, Galadriel and her brothers! There were hundreds of elves crossing over Helcaraxë – and that would entail hundreds of stories.

That makes me wonder if such an idea has been attempted before, if it has I am slightly glad that I have not seen the corresponding thread, because I do not want to be “influenced” by the ideas there; and if it has not been attempted, then I guess we really have a fresh scope to imagination for a start.

Two important factors need to be mentioned: firstly, do remember that the Elves who left Valinor were known to each other by their Quenyan names, I would request those who are accepted to write in the thread to please use those names as opposed to the Sindarin ones that the Elves received after they settled in Middle-Earth. Secondly, when taking on the speech of an epic character, like Fingolfin, for instance, please try and attribute dignity and weight to his or her dialogue and write what you think he or she would have said in the situation (in keeping with character) – instead of what you feel he or she ought to have said.

I would be grateful if all those who wish to join in would read the rules BerethEdhellen has compiled here. Though it is meant for the Totally Tolkien threads, I would like for them to be observed in my thread as well as a matter of discernment and integrity.

I shall begin the thread in the Tolkien-Related forum. If anyone wishes to join, please PM me, though I do wish to keep the writing as close to canon material as possible. Needless it would be to point out, that only Elves need apply to the thread.

Please do so here or message me privately.


[Edited on 9/3/2010 by BerethEdhellen]
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 02, 2007 08:38
With the permission of ElfMaidofLorien, our communication gets posted here.

That's a lovely character. The only thing is where Fingolfin's host was left: Araman or Helcaraxë. I went through the Sil and this is what is written:

"The Noldor came at last far into the north of Arda; and they saw the first teeth of the ice that floated in the sea,
and knew that they were drawing nigh to the Helcaraxë. For between the land of Aman that in the north curved
eastward, and the east-shores of Endor (which is Middle-earth) that bore westward, there was a narrow strait, through
which the chill waters of the Encircling Sea and the waves of Belegaer flowed together, and there were vast fogs and
mists of deathly cold, and the sea-streams were filled with clashing hills of ice and the grinding of ice deep-sunken.
Such was the Helcaraxë, and there none yet had dared to tread save the Valar only and Ungoliant
Therefore Fëanor halted and the Noldor debated what course they should now take. But they began to suffer
anguish from the cold, and the clinging mists through which no gleam of star could pierce; and many repented of the
road and began to murmur, especially those that followed Fingolfin, cursing Fëanor, and naming him as the cause of all
the woes of the Eldar. But Fëanor, knowing all that was said, took counsel with his sons; and two courses only they saw
to escape from Araman and come into Endor: by the straits or by ship. But the Helcaraxë they deemed impassable,
whereas the ships were too few. Many had been lost upon their long journey, and there remained now not enough to
bear across all the great host together; yet none were willing to abide upon the western coast while others were ferried
first: already the fear of treachery was awake among the Noldor. Therefore it came into the hearts of Fëanor and his
sons to seize all the ships and depart suddenly; for they had retained the mastery of the fleet since the battle of the Haven, and it was manned only by those who had fought there and were bound to Fëanor. And as though it came at his
call, there sprang up a wind from the north-west, and Fëanor slipped away secretly with all whom he deemed true to
him, and went aboard, and put out to sea, and left Fingolfin in Araman. And since the sea was there narrow, steering
east and somewhat south he passed over without loss, and first of all the Noldor set foot once more upon the shores of
Middle-earth; and the landing of Fëanor was at the mouth of the firth which was called Drengist and ran into Dorlómin.
But when they were landed, Maedhros the eldest of his sons, and on a time the friend of Fingon ere Morgoth's
lies came between, spoke to Fëanor, saying: 'Now what ships and rowers will you spare to return, and whom shall they
bear hither first? Fingon the valiant?'
Then Fëanor laughed as one fey, and he cried: 'None and none! What I have left behind I count now no loss;
needless baggage on the road it has proved. Let those that cursed my name, curse me still, and whine their way back to
the cages of the Valar! Let the ships burn!' Then Maedhros alone stood aside, but Fëanor caused fire to be set to the
white ships of the Teleri. So in that place which was called Losgar at the outlet of the Firth of Drengist ended the fairest
vessels that ever sailed the sea, in a great burning, bright and terrible. And Fingolfin and his people saw the light afar
off, red beneath the clouds; and they knew that they were betrayed. This was the firstfruits of the Kinslaying and the
Doom of the Noldor.
Then Fingolfin seeing that Fëanor had left him to perish in Araman or return in shame to Valinor was filled with
bitterness; but he desired now as never before to come by some way to Middle-earth, and meet Fëanor again. And he
and his host wandered long in misery, but their valour and endurance grew with hardship; for they were a mighty
people, the elder children undying of Elu Ilúvatar, but new-come from the Blessed Realm, and not yet weary with the
weariness of Earth. The fire of their hearts was young, and led by Fingolfin and his sons, and by Finrod and Galadriel,
they dared to pass into the bitterest North; and finding no other way they endured at last the terror of the Helcaraxë and
the cruel hills of ice. Few of the deeds of the Noldor thereafter surpassed that desperate crossing in hardihood or woe.
There Elenwë the wife of Turgon was lost, and many others perished also; and it was with a lessened host that Fingolfin
set foot at last upon the Outer Lands. Small love for Fëanor or his sons had those that marched at last behind him, and
blew their trumpets in Middle-earth at the first rising of the Moon."


So let's just say that the Elves were left on the borders of Araman and the beginning of Helcaraxë.

And, no, ElfmaidenofLorien, please don't apologise, you haven't messed anything up. I like Rilnen. Though I'll post my thoughts regarding your post in a reply to this thread and forward it to you as a pm as well.

Shall post this onto the OOC thread.

Rish.


ElfmaidenofLorien wrote on May 02, 2007 - 06:39 PM:
not at all. I haven't been in the TT for a long time but I am willing to meet the requirments. I just posted so I hope that won't mess things up, sorry. My character's name is Rilnen, she is now in the db. Thanks, Elfmaiden


Rish wrote on May 02, 2007 - 01:03 PM:
Hey, ElfMaiden,

thanks for writing in. And yes, I think crossing the Helcaraxë will be interesting to create and read as well. BerethEdhellen has come to like the way I write and she asked me if I wanted to take the thread into the TT canon thread, I agreed since I truly like to write as per the requirements of the TT threads. Subsequently, she has asked me to take in writers who will write and will be able to manage canon material and the language required therein.

So if you don't mind writing as per the rules of the thread, you are welcome to join. It would be nice to write with you again. Do let me see the RP character that you create.

Would you mind if I put these messages up in the OOC of the Conquering Helcaraxë thread?


Rish.


ElfmaidenofLorien wrote on May 02, 2007 - 06:09 PM:
hey Rish, what an interesting thread! I have been lately very much into the Silmarillion and therefore would like to join this. I will be creating a character specially for this one, since I don't have one yet. I will let you know when my character is finished so you can take a look.

By the way, I am currently reviewing my knowledge on the Helcaraxë crossing and things in the Sil so that I can keep up but if I do mess up feel free to let me know.
Thanks, Elfmaiden....I will post as soon as I get the charrie made.



"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 02, 2007 08:44
In your post, Elfmaiden, you haven't used the older Quenya names given to the High-Elves. For eg, Fëanor is Fëanáro. To make things simpler, I have already a small note made on names, here it is:

Fëanor = Fëanáro "Spirit of fire"/ Curufinwë/Kurufinwë, Finwion

Maedhros = Nelyafinwë/ Maitimo/ Russandol

Maglor = Makalaurë "Gold-cleaver"/ Kano/ Kanafinwë/

Celegorm = Tyelkormo "Hasty-Riser"/ Turkafinwë

Caranthir = Morifinwë "The dark finwe"/ Carnistir "red face"

Curufin = Curufinwë - after his father because he looked like his father/ Atarinkë "little father"

Amrod = Pityafinwë "little finwe"/ Ambarussa

Amras = Telufinwë "last finwe"/ Ambarussa/ Ambarto = However "Umbarto" proved to be a prophetic name, for Amras was accidentally killed in the swan ships of the Teleri, when his father ordered them to be burnt at Losgar.

Fingolfin= Nolofinwë

Fingon = Findekáno

Turgon = Turukáno

Aredhel = Ar-Feiniel, the white lady

Argon = Arakáno ("High Commander")

Finarfin = Arafinwë

Earwen = Earwen

Finrod = Findaráto Artafinde Ingoldo, Nóm, Felagund

Angrod = Angarato, "Iron Champion".

Eðellos = Eldalôtë

Aegnor = Aikanár or Aikanáro, meaning "Sharp-flame"

Galadriel = Alatáriel/ Altáriel/ Artanis/ Nerwen.

And, ElfMaiden, Finarfin = Arafinwë has already left the host to return back to Valinor. You mention that "Rauron" goes to speak to Arafinwë, that is wrong. The Prophecy has already been spoken by Mandos, and on hearing it, Arafinwë returns. It is after that that the Noldor begin to move North.

Another thing regarding character, red hair:

Nerdanel's (Fëanáro's wife) family members are the only attested examples of Elves with red hair. Nerdanel's father Mahtan and three of her sons (Maedhros, Amrod, and Amras) are described by Tolkien as having reddish-brown hair, and this is described as a trait "of Nerdanel's kin" — not through Nerdanel herself, who had brown hair and a rosy complexion.

So, please think up of an explanation for your characters having red hair. Make it as plausible as possible.

I am sorry if I am being exacting in what I want from my writers but I want the thread to speak the truth that Tolkien invented. Hope you understand.

[Edited on 2/5/2007 by Rish]
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
ElfmaidenofLorien
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 02, 2007 02:26
hey Rish just so you know I finally found a good enough picture of Rilnen. I thought you might want to know what she looks like.
'Not even the gods above can separate the two of us, no nothing can come between you and I.'
Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 02, 2007 02:34
Very pretty, I must say. That is very good fan-art.
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 03, 2007 06:26
A question regarding the food that Elves eat before they pass onto Middle-Earth.

Anybody choose to elaborate or help?

I was writing a draft for my next post and I got stuck here:

They had their meager possessions tucked into two large cloaks. Elnaira had managed to find some sea weed drifted across the rocky shore, which she knew was edible. She made sure that word spread around regarding it. Within no time, the coast of Northern Araman was picked clean of each strand of weed. Supply of food would not be a problem...


It was here that I stopped. Now I don't really know whether Elves were vegetarian or non-vegetarian. So I did a little research:

"All Elves are hunter/gatherers and, therefore, they eat whatever their environment provides, but they are also very concerned about the local natural balance. Elves always hunt those animals whose numbers are great, and the hunters always seek out old, injured or sick animals, culling the weak from the heard; thus preserving and protecting their environment.

Elves love tasting new kinds of food, and experiment with old. Their knowledge of herbs can be handy in those regards. It is said that an Elf never cooks the same meal twice. Some Men have fast metabolisms while some have slow, but it seems that all Elves have fast metabolisms (as opposed to Dwarves who all have slow metabolisms). But despite the fact that an Elf could eat a lot of food and still remain slim, their meals are usually only half the size of a Human meal if even that, and they eat only once or twice a day."

This helped a bit - so if the Elves are on Helcaraxe (please don't hold me not writing accents against me - it's morning and I spent the whole night writing. ) are non vegetarians, then will they be able to find fish or sea living mammals to satiate their appetites? THey certainly cannot go hungry for all three years - so the question of food definitely arises!!

And no, lembas is not an option. Melian, the queen of Doriath, originally held this recipe. Later it was passed to Galadriel and other Elves. And Galadriel has not even reached Middle-Earth as yet.

So I really would like some opinions here. As of now, my writing gets stuck and I am too drained to think further.

Please think on it - all those who enter here!

[Edited on 4/5/2007 by Rish]
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 03, 2007 08:07
Rish,

Living as I do beside the sea, I would suggest some of the following:

Oysters, clams, scallops, mussels
Fish, caught by poles or nets
Perhaps some seals
The further south they get, the warmer the climate...snow rabbits, deer, small game.

I agree with the use of seaweed as there are many edible varieties so a pot boiling with seafood, seaweed and spices would keep them alive.

And lembas I think might be doable. Melian learned her skills in Valinor so I would think that it would not be unknown to the travelers. I think they would have left prepared with whatever was necessary to catch/provide their own food for a long trip. They've already traveled from Arda to Valinor once so they have a sense of the time it took to make the first trip. They're just reversing their travels.

Hope this helps some.
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
ElfmaidenofLorien
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 04, 2007 01:34
Amazing research Rish! I think that what Bereth suggested would definately be our best option for our characters, and they did bring some food with them, so they might have different kinds of meats and things.
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Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 05, 2007 02:34
Thanks so much, Bereth. Yes, I think Lembas would be available then. Never thought of it as it being learnt at Valinor. I could work with that.

Yes, the journey was made to the west once before, but I assume that was over the sea. That is why Feanor manages to do so successfully. Over a subcontinent of ice though, this was the first time. Naturally, things will not be able to grow there - but what I shall do is research on what mountaineers use when they scale mountains like Everest and see what they carry, since they would be travelling in lands filled with ice and snow as well. Maybe I could pick up some useful tips.

For Iri, a timeline taken from wikipedia. I am sending the timeline from the Years of the Trees to the end of the First Age with the war of wrath.
======================================


Years of the Trees

For consistency, dates below will continue to be given in Valian Years. In some cases, after V.Y. 4580, exact chronological order cannot be determined and the placement of undated entries is estimated.

* 3501 - A new tally of years is begun with Year of the Trees 1.
* Aulë the Smith makes the Dwarves but is not allowed to awaken them; Yavanna thinks of the Ents in response
* 4500 - The Valar hold council to discuss the concerns of Oromë and Yavanna regarding Middle-earth and the impending arrival of the Eruhíni, or Children of Illúvatar.
* Varda begins gathering light from the Trees of the Valar for the Great Stars.
* Varda sets the Menelmacar and other constellations in the sky.
* 4550 - Varda finishes her work on the Great Stars, setting the Sickle of the Valar in the north as a challenge to Melkor.

First Age

During the Years of the Trees the First Age of the Children of Ilúvatar begins, at the Awakening of the Elves.

* 4550 - Eru awakens the Elves.
* Melian the Maia departs for Middle-earth.
* 4580 - Melkor discovers and begins capturing Elves in secret.
* Melkor begins breeding the Orcs from captured Elves, and the Trolls; Khazad-dûm founded by Durin the Deathless
* 4585 - Oromë first learns of the Elves
* 4586 - Oromë returns to Valinor, informs the other Valar of the dangers faced by the Elves, and then returns immediately to Cuiviénen.
* 4590 - The Valar march to war against Melkor on behalf of the Elves.
* 4592 - The Valar lay siege to Utumno.
* Melian begins dwelling in Nan Elmoth and caring for the living things that have been awakened in Beleriand.
* 4599 - Melkor is captured and Utumno destroyed. Sauron escapes capture and remains in Angband, breeding Orcs and Trolls for Melkor.
* 4600 - Melkor is taken to Valinor in chains and sentenced to serve a term in the Halls of Mandos for three Ages.
* 4601 - The Valar decide to summon the Elves to dwell with them in Aman.
* 4602 - Oromë brings three ambassadors of the Elves to Aman: Ingwë of the Vanyar, Finwë of the Noldor, and Elwë of the Teleri
* 4604 - The three ambassadors return and work to convince the Elves to accept the summons of the Valar. They accumulate many followers.
* 4605 - Great Journey of the Elves: The Elves depart for Aman (not all answer the summon—see Sundering of the Elves)
* 4615 - The Elves reach the great river which would later be called Anduin.
* A group of Teleri under Lenwë (or Dan) abandon the March at Anduin and become the Nandor
* Fathers of the Dwarves and first Ents awakened by Eru; Elves discover the Ents and begin teaching them language.
* 4625 - The Vanyar and Noldor arrive in Beleriand.
* 4628 - The Teleri arrive in Beleriand after tarrying in the great forests of Eriador.
* 4630 - Elwë meets Melian and is entranced.
* 4632 - Ulmo is unwilling to wait until Elwë is found, and the Vanyar and Noldor are ferried across on the island of Tol Eressëa, while the Teleri stay behind, looking for their lord.
* 4633 - The Vanyar and Noldor settle in Tirion near Valimar
* 4640 - Ingwë and many of the Vanyar leave Tirion to dwell with Manwë in Valinor.
* 4642 - Yavanna gives the White Tree, Galathilion, to the Noldor.
* 4649 - Ulmo finally returns for the Teleri, but many stay behind because Elwë is not yet found, and become the Sindar. Another group remains behind at the request of Ossë, they become the Elves of the Falas under Círdan.
* 4651 - The majority of the Teleri are ferried across on Tol Eressëa, which is anchored in the bay of Eldamar. They take Elwë's brother, Olwë, as lord.
* 4652 - Elwë awakes from slumber and reunites with the Sindar. He becomes known as Thingol, settling in Doriath.
* Finwë marries Míriel
* 4661 - The Teleri of Tol Eressëa learn the art of shipbuilding, and ferry across the bay of Eldamar to Aman, where they found the city of Alqualondë. Tol Eressëa is abandoned.
* 4665 - The last Vanyar abandon Tirion and settle in Aman proper. The Noldor remain in Tirion under their lord, Finwë.
* 4679 - Birth of Fëanor and death of Míriel. Rúmil invents writing.
* Nogrod and Belegost founded by Dwarves
* 4685 - Finwë marries Indis; Findis born sometime around here.
* 4690 - Fingolfin born
* 4700 - Lúthien born
* c.4690-4730 - Irimë born
* The Elves of the Falas join with the Sindar in an alliance
* 4730 - Finarfin born
* 4750 - Dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost enter Beleriand, establishing trade. Fëanor develops the Tengwar.
* 4780 - Wedding of Finarfin and Eärwen
* 4850 - The Nandor, under Denethor, arrive in Beleriand, becoming known as the Laiquendi of Ossiriand.
* 4862 - Galadriel born
* 4900 - Melkor, freed from his sentence, begins corrupting some of the Noldor.
* 4950 - Fëanor completes the forging of the Silmarils.
* 4990 - Fëanor, deceived by Melkor, draws arms against his brother and is banished from Tirion: his father, Finwë, and many of the Noldor follow him in exile to Formenos.
* 4992 - Fëanor argues with Melkor at Formenos. Melkor hides from capture by the Valar and joins forces with Ungoliant.
* 4995 - Manwë tries to heal the feud of the Noldor, and summons Fëanor to a festival in Valimar. Melkor and Ungoliant destroy the Two Trees, kill Finwë and steal the Silmarils; Fëanor first names Melkor, Morgoth. Fëanor and his sons swear an oath to regain the Silmarils and the majority of the Noldor depart from Valinor; Noldor kill many Teleri and seize their ships in the First Kinslaying.
* 4996 - Prophecy of Mandos: the Noldor are banished from Valinor and face great doom; the Valar hide Valinor behind the Magic Isles and raise the Pelóri mountains.
* 4997 - Melkor returns to Angband, and tries to take Beleriand: First Battle of Beleriand is fought; Denethor of the Laiquendi slain and the Havens of the Falas are besieged. The Noldor arrive at Helcaraxë; Fëanor and his host betray the sons of Indis and sail across, then burn the ships. Return of the Noldor to Middle-earth. Morgoth's army attacks Fëanor. Dagor-nuin-Giliath ("the Battle under Stars") is fought. Fëanor is slain by Balrogs in sight of Angband.
* The Valar begin devising the Moon and Sun
* 5000 - The remainder of the Noldor arrives in Middle-earth; the Moon arises.

Years of the Sun in the First Age

From this time on years are of normal length. Events from Valinor during the Years of the Sun cannot be accurately dated. All entries are derived from Grey Annals (see references) unless otherwise noted. The dating begins anew at 1, although these years are still held to be part of the First Age.

* Year 1 - The Sun first sets sail, start of reckoning by 'Years of the Sun', Awakening of Men in Hildórien.
* 50 - Turgon and Finrod are told by Ulmo to establish a refuge
* 65 - Finrod builds the tower of Barad Nimras ("White Horn Tower") on a cape of the Falas between Brithombar and Eglarest.
* 75 - Dagor Aglareb: the Noldor, ruled by Fingolfin, start the Siege of Angband
* 75–c. 200 - Melkor is absent from Angband, after discovering Men. Persuaded by Melkor, Men stop worshipping Eru and turn to evil, but some revolt: the Atanatári. These travel to the West in search for the Valar, aided by Avari Elves and Dwarves. According to legend, Men now become mortal as the result of divine punishment.[1]
* c. 100 - Foundation of Nargothrond: Fingon's folk depart from Hithlum.
* 126 - Completion of Gondolin. Turgon's people begin the migration from Nevrast in secret.
* 265 - Glaurung ravages Beleriand, but is driven back to Angband.
* 305 - Bëor leads The First House of the Edain into Beleriand: Men discovered by Finrod
* 341 - Haldar and Haleth born
* 345 - Return of Aredhel and Maeglin to Gondolin; later, Eöl and Aredhel die.
* 389 - Birth of Hador, later Lord of Dor-lómin
* 443 - Birth of Beren Erchamion
* 445 - Birth of Rodnor, son of Orodreth, later called Gil-galad
* 455 - Melkor breaks the Siege of Angband in Dagor Bragollach, ("Battle of Sudden Flame"); kills Fingolfin in duel; Húrin and Huor are brought to Gondolin by Thorondor
* 456 - Húrin and Huor return out of Gondolin to Dor-lómin.
* 457 - Capture of Finrod's fortress of Minas Tirith by the forces of Sauron. Its warden, Orodreth, flees for Nargothrond. Minas Tirith is renamed Tol-in-Gaurhoth, "Isle of Werewolves".
* 461 - Barahir and companions are killed; Beren becomes an out-law.
* 462 - Beren departs for Doriath
* 463 - Birth of Túrin Turambar in Dor-lómin. Beren first comes upon Lúthien.
* 465 - Celegorm and Curufin are exiled from Nargothrond and journey to Himring.
* 468 - Finrod and Beren are imprisoned in Tol-in-Gaurhoth. Finrod is slain by a werewolf, but Beren is rescued by Lúthien.
* 469 - Beren and Lúthien achieve the Quest of the Silmaril. Beren dies, and Lúthien abandons life: Lúthien pleads with Mandos and Beren and Lúthien are restored to life; Beren and Lúthien take up bodies again in Ossiriand on the isle of Tol Galen.
* 471 - Nirnaeth Arnoediad, "The Battle of Unnumbered Tears"; Huor is slain in the Fens of Serech, Húrin is captured by Morgoth. Birth of Tuor, son of Huor. Fingon slain
* 472 - Siege and capture of the Havens of the Falas: Brithombar and Eglarest.
* c. 473 - Birth of Nienor and death of Rían.
* 475 - Birth of Dior Eluchíl on Tol Galen
* 494 - Gurthang is reforged for Túrin, who becomes known as the Black Sword of Nargothrond.
* 495 - Sack of Nargothrond. The coming of Tuor to Gondolin.
* 497 - Dior weds Nimloth.
* 498 - Slaying of Glaurung, and deaths of Túrin Turambar and Nienor Níniel in Brethil
* 500 - Birth of Eluréd and Elurín, twin sons of Dior.
* 501 - Húrin released from captivity. Travels to Nargothrond and takes the treasure from there to Thingol.
* 502 - Forging of the Nauglamír and quarrel of Thingol and the Dwarves. Marriage of Tuor and Idril.
* c. 502 - Deaths of Morwen and Húrin.
* 503 - Thingol is slain and Doriath sacked by Dwarves of Belegost and Nogrod; Beren, Laiquendi, and Ents destroy the Dwarves; Melian returns to Valinor in grief; Lúthien wears the Silmaril; Birth of Eärendil in spring. Birth of Elwing. Final deaths of Beren and Lúthien; Dior receives the Silmaril in autumn.
* 504 - Dior travels to Doriath and restores it.
* 505 - Sons of Fëanor learn of Silmaril in Doriath. Maedhros restrains his brothers, but they send a demand for the Silmaril to Dior, who ignores it.
* 506 - Sons of Fëanor attack Doriath in Winter at Celegorm's urging.
* 507 - Doriath is destroyed in the Second Kinslaying; Dior and Nimloth killed; Celegorm's servants send Eluréd and Elurín to die in the forest, but Maedhros searches for them with no avail. Celegorm, Curufin, and Caranthir are all slain. Elwing escapes for the Mouths of Sirion with the Silmaril, and Maeglin captured by Melkor's spies.
* 510 - Gondolin is betrayed by Maeglin and sacked; Glorfindel slays a Balrog in the Echoriath, Ecthelion slays Gothmog, Lord of Balrogs, both of them killed as well. Death of Turgon.
* 511 - Tuor and Idril bring Eärendil and refugees of Gondolin to the Mouths of Sirion which prospers as 'New Havens'.
* 512 - The remaining Sons of Fëanor learn of the New Havens and the Silmaril there, but Maedhros wishes no more bloodshed and forswears his oath.
* 524 - Eärendil begins his great voyages
* 525 - Eärendil marries Elwing. Tuor feels 'Unquiet of Ulmo' and sails into the West in the ship Eärrámë with Idril.
* 527 - The Sons of Fëanor are tormented by their unfulfilled oath and make plans to recover the Silmaril.
* 532 - Elrond and Elros are born to Eärendil and Elwing.
* 538 - Third Kinslaying: while Eärendil is away the remaining Sons of Fëanor attack the people of the Mouths of Sirion trying to claim the Silmaril; Amrod is slain; Elwing casts herself in the sea but is brought to Eärendil by Ulmo; Elrond and Elros are fostered by Maglor and/or Maedhros.
* 542 - Eärendil arrives in Valinor.
* 545 - The War of Wrath begins
* 587 - The War of Wrath ends; Morgoth is defeated; the remaining two Silmarils are stolen by Maedhros and Maglor, but are lost in the earth and in the sea; most of Beleriand is sunk; the Sea of Helcar is drained through the Great Gulf; the plateaus of Mordor, Khand, and Rhûn rise from the former seabed.
* 590 - Morgoth is cast into the Void; the Elves are summoned to Valinor and settle on Tol Eressëa; Galadriel refuses the summons and is still banned; a small part of the Noldor remain in Lindon; Thranduil and other Sindar depart east and establish realms.
========================================


And a lovely article that I found for Iri's characters (since she is getting a child along):

"What Tolkien said..." :
It is about Elven marriages and conjugal relationships, pregnancy and adolescence regarding elves - taken from L.A.C.E., an essay written on these matters by Tolkien.

"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
TurinTurimbar
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 06, 2007 08:11
As far as food goes, Bereth has a good point, seafood and maybe a few seals or a walrus, but to get the food one would have to go to the edg of Helcaraxe or cut a hole into it. Also, eventually all of the provisions the elves took with them would run out thus limiting the use of lembas to the duration of maybe the first three to six months of travel. All other food would need to be hunted.

As far as ice climbing equipment goes, ice picks heavy parkas made of seal or walrus skin(if the elf happened to have it, a winter suit from other animal hide), ladders are also a big help to cross over chasms in the ice. Since we are dealing with elves, a tight rope would be acceptable.
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 06, 2007 12:26
Thanks, Turin. I have taken your advice actually, and written a bit more into my post on the main thread. I gave it some thought and technically speaking, Helcaraxe would be a region like the Arctic.

So I gather I could do a little researching and see what people who live in such extreme climes do for food. I shall look up lifestyles of the Eskimo - but for now, I have mentioned a bit about Walruses - because logically, as Bereth mentioned, there might be fish in the sea, but just for a bit of respite for those who set out from Valinor, I've had them carry Lembas.
===================================

RESEARCH on the Northern Reaches of our world:

Plants

The tundra vegetation of the Arctic is composed of plants such as dwarf shrubs, graminoids, herbs, lichens and mosses, which grow close to the ground. It is so far north that it is too cold for trees to grow. As one moves northward, the amount of warmth available for plant growth decreases considerably. In the northernmost areas plants are at their metabolic limits, and small differences in the total amount of summer warmth make large differences in the amount of energy available for maintenance, growth and reproduction. Colder summer temperatures cause the size, abundance, productivity and variety of plants to decrease. In the warmest parts of the Arctic, shrubs are common and can reach 2 m in height; sedges, mosses and lichens can form thick layers. In the coldest parts of the Arctic much of the ground is bare, nonvascular plants such as lichens and mosses predominate, along with a few scattered grasses and forbs (like the arctic poppy).

out of which we can use lichens: All lichens are believed to be edible (or at least not poisonous) except for Wolf Moss, shown below. Rock-tripe Lichens (not shown) are even considered a delicacy by the Japanese.


Animals

* Polar bears have white fur so they can camouflage in the snow. This helps them to sneak up on seals when they’re hungry.
* The wolverine is part of the weasel family, and lives in holes in the ground. Though it is a small animal, it is very powerful.
* Arctic foxes are hard to spot in the snow because of their thick white fur. In the summer, their fur turns a brownish-grey colour.
* The Ptarmigan is a type of bird which nests in the snowy mountains, where they raise their young.
* Beluga means “white one” in Russian. Adults are white and the young are grey. This is so that the young can’t be seen easily by their predators. (Type of whale)
* Some other animals include the Arctic Wolf, Ringed Seal, Lemmings, and the Arctic Hare.


Out of which I think - we can use the Ptarmigans and Hares before the "deeps" of Helcaraxe - and in the deeps, we can use the Walruses, whales and seals.

[Edited on 7/5/2007 by Rish]
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Iri
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 07, 2007 07:36
I have a quick question and really don't remember where I got the idea from, but. . .Do elves feel the cold?

I tried to look up some research, an was unable to find anything, so if anyone else could find that answer for me that would be great. And with the answer if needed I can change my post.
Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 07, 2007 03:16
First to answer Iri's questions, I did a bit of research on your question, and I would say that the Elves would feel the cold. Elves are immortal, but they do die from wounds or grief. Their lives have cycles and Cirdan who is said to be the oldest elf on Middle-earth goes through his third cycle of life and grows a beard and looks older with slight wrinkles and gray hair.

From this one can deduce, that the Elves do feel the power of the elements, but decidedly not as much as, say, a mortal would. Crossing the Helcaraxe did kill many of them - so the cold would be severe there! A valar was not affected, elves were affected and mortal men I believe would not have been able to survive at all! So I would say, that furs and heavy clothes would be essential. I also noticed furs in a fan art drawing right here in one of the galleries.

Hope this answers your question, Iri, and now onto my bit of input for names:

Naming conventions:

Elves were typically given one name (essë) at birth, a name that had little to do with who they were or their personality. This name was given by the father, therefore called the father name, and reflected either the name of the father or mother. As the Elf grew older, they received a second name, given by the mother (amilessë). This name was extremely important and reflected personality, skills, or fate. This name was not used by those who did not know the Elf well; it would be considered rude to do so. In those cases, the Father-name would be used.

The epessë or the "after-name" is the third type. The after-name is given later in life, but not necessarily by their kin, as a title of admiration and honour. In some circumstances, the epessë is chosen by the Elf himself or herself. An Elf could be referred to by any of the three, but the epessë typically took preference.

A fourth type was the patronymic — the father's name with the suffix "-ion" added. Thus, Gildor Inglorion is "Gildor, son of Inglor".

Several examples include:

* Maedhros, the oldest son of Fëanor, was called Russandol (copper-top) by his brothers: He had earned this epessë because of his ruddy hair. Maedhros itself was an epessë as well: his father-name had been Nelyafinwë (Finwë the third: Fëanor's own father-name had been (Curu) finwë), and his mother-name Maitimo (well-shaped one).

* Gil-galad (Star of Radiance) is the mother-name of Rodnor, son of Orodreth. He is given the epessë Ereinion because of his heritage: the name literally means "Son of Kings".

* Círdan (Shipwright) is the epessë of a Telerin Elf who remained in Beleriand, and later Lindon, until the end of the Third Age. His original name had been forgotten, and he was referred to always as Círdan, a title which had been given to him as Lord of the Falas.

* Finrod is usually referred to as Felagund (hewer of caves), a name the Dwarves had given to him (originally Felakgundu) because of his dwellings at Nargothrond. Finrod adopted the name, and made it a title of honour.

* Galadriel is the Sindarin translation of Alatáriel, the latter being the Telerin epessë originally given to her by Celeborn. Galadriel means "Maiden Crowned by a Radiant Garland". The name itself is an epessë: her father-name is Artanis (noble woman) and her mother-name is Nerwen (man-maiden).
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
ElfmaidenofLorien
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 08, 2007 03:06
wow, thats really interesting Rish. I never really thought about all the names.

Btw you said you needed the people to have different occupations beside healing I had an idea that Mithwen could have been a jewel crafter, since that was what the Noldor loved.

I think Rauron was just a skilled warrior, like his father had been before him.

Do you like this? Or are you looking for something specific?
'Not even the gods above can separate the two of us, no nothing can come between you and I.'
Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 08, 2007 03:44
A jewel crafter? Sounds interesting. As for Rauron, how about making him a good tracker? Just thinking aloud.
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
ElfmaidenofLorien
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 08, 2007 10:36
I like that idea. Do you like the idea of Mithwen being a jewel crafter? I thought since many of the Noldor loved making jewels she could be one of them.

Rauron could definately be a tracker/hunter.
'Not even the gods above can separate the two of us, no nothing can come between you and I.'
TurinTurimbar
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 09, 2007 01:31
As for Taurohtar, I don't really think anything but a warrior fits him except maybe teaching swordsmanship. Although he did design his own armor, it wasn't his profession.
Iri
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 10, 2007 11:31
I'll keep Lian as a healer then, if it isn't a problem. It fits her personality an it was the only real thing I could find out that the elleth's did an practiced during that time.

The Elves, particularly the Noldor, preoccupy themselves with various things, such as smithwork, sculpture, music and other arts, and of course, what to eat. Males and females can do almost everything equally; however, the females often specialize in the arts of healing while the men go to war. This is because they believe that taking life interferes with the ability to preserve life. However, Elves are not stuck in rigid roles; females can defend themselves at need as well as males, and many males are skilled healers as well, such as Elrond.[

Found Here

Despited the "However," part, Lian seemed most likely to be a healer than anything else.

A jewel crafter is very creative Elfmaiden, good on ya
Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 10, 2007 04:46
Yes, Elfmaiden, I do like the idea of a jewel crafter.

Turin, now that you mention it, Taurohtar can be a worthy master-at-arms.

And, Iri, yes, Lian can be a healer. We shall be needing a lot of them.

[Edited on 11/5/2007 by Erumelmo]
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
BerethEdhellen
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 10, 2007 06:48
It might be helpful to let folks know that Erumelmo was 'formerly known as Rish', in case any one is puzzled by what happened to him. *smiles*
Life is good! Live it to the fullest. Love well those near and dear. "You cannot step into the same river twice, for the waters are ever flowing on ....." Heraclitus I Aear cân ven na mar
Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 11, 2007 12:35
Thanks, Bereth.
And yes, I have, it's mentioned in my siggie.
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 13, 2007 08:31
Another matter of decision.
Lord Celeborn or Teleporno?

Well, I am taking a bit of time for writing in my post on Helcaraxe because I am trying to figure out if I want to include Celeborn in the story or not. My initial decision was to not keep him as a Telerin prince. I do not know why but it doesn't feel right.

Celeborn's ancestry is not exactly certain. Celeborn first appeared in The Lord of the Rings, and he did not appear at all in Tolkien's (at the time unpublished) existing legends of the First Age, The Silmarillion. Tolkien felt that for an Elf of Celeborn's importance he had to have a good ancestry, and spent several years trying to resolve Celeborn's origins.

Most existing writings portray Celeborn as a Sindarin Elf from Doriath, the kingdom of Thingol. Celeborn is described as a "kinsman" of Thingol. That Celeborn and Thingol are remotely related is further alluded to by the fact they both had silver hair, a haircolour which is never mentioned outside of the royal house of the Sindar. This origin was adopted by Christopher Tolkien and Guy Kay for the Silmarillion when it was decided to publish this book after Tolkien's death, and a new paragraph about Celeborn's marriage to Galadriel was inserted. Exactly how Celeborn could have been a kinsman of Thingol was not mentioned.

According to one speculative text written by Tolkien, published as part of the Unfinished Tales, Celeborn was the grandson of Thingol's younger brother Elmo (who never appears elsewhere). Elmo was also linked to Círdan, making Círdan another member of the Sindarin royal house.

This simple origin Celeborn was however changed: in Tolkien's last writings Celeborn was a Telerin Elf from Valinor, then named Teleporno in Telerin Quenya. He met Galadriel when she was living in the Telerin city Alqualondë, before the rebellion of the Ñoldor. They decided to travel together to Middle-earth, without asking permission from the Valar to do so. While not involved with the rebellion of the Ñoldor at all, because they left at the same time and without permission (which would certainly not have been granted at that time), Celeborn and Galadriel were caught under the same Ban that prevented them from returning. The name Teleporno was "Sindarized" as Celeborn: Telerin telep ("silver") (Ñoldorin Quenya tyelep) was translated to Sindarin keleb. In order to be counted as a kinsman of the Sindarin king Thingol, Celeborn must have been part of the family of the Telerin king Olwë, likely one of his sons or grandsons.

This altered origin was not adopted into the published Silmarillion, primarily because it would have necessitated a major rewrite of the earlier parts to account for a separate departure of Galadriel. A further problem was that this descent would have made Celeborn Galadriel's first or second cousin, and Elves never married close kin.

It is unfortunately not known what Tolkien's "final word" on Celeborn's origin was, as he never returned to the question. While it is likely the Aman origin of Teleporno was the final intent, it is equally likely Celeborn would have been portrayed in the eventual "author's Silmarillion" as related more distantly to Thingol—the relationship could have been through other family members not mentioned.


I just feel that it is best that I take what the Sil has mentioned and just keep Celeborn out of the journey over Helcaraxe.

===================================

Also this is the break-up of the Leaders of the Noldor as they lead their people over Helcaraxe.

The leaders of the 3 HOSTS:

1. The Beginning:

Nolofinwe
Findarato
Arakano
Artaresto



2. The Middle:

Artanis
Aikanaro
Angarato

(my characters fit in here)


3. The End:

Findekano
Turukano and Elenwe
Ar-Feiniel

[Edited on 13/5/2007 by Erumelmo]
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
ElfmaidenofLorien
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 15, 2007 07:25
sounds good to me Erumelmo. My characters are with Artanis, so they would be in the middle also.
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 15, 2007 10:35
I am planning on introducing a bad guy soon. Probably in the next post or the one after that. I will be putting up his character in the database soon.
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Iri
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 15, 2007 06:21
ooh a bad guy ^.^

anyways, I will post soon, once Erumelmo is able to look over Turin's last post, an changes are made if any.

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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 16, 2007 10:13
When I was making Altaha's [the bad guy's ] character, Elnaira's future husband decided to get included into the plot. So I made up the character history of these two new Elf Men, who would be joining in. They are:

Túrë

Altaha

Now, Túrë's character is a follower of Turgon, so he shall be following at the end.
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 17, 2007 01:34
Heh, it sounds as though Taurohtar and Altaha will not get along together at all. Maybe they will have to fight in the future, who knows?
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 17, 2007 05:51
Altaha gets along with no one. He is a selfish guy. And yes, one never knows, Turin, Taurohtar just may have to fight with him.
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
ElfmaidenofLorien
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: May 17, 2007 09:16
nice new charries Erumelmo. Sounds like they will add interest to the plot.
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Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: June 15, 2007 05:10
Hello, my fellow writers.

I have just finished with writing for another post - since it has been about 10 days since I posted last . . . but I cannot post again until one of you writes in so what I shall do is edit my last post and put the new paragraphs in there.

This post here is basically to tell you once again how things are going to get divided in the host:

the middle segment of the elves is lead by Artanis and her younger brothers, on the western boundary will be Elnaira and Taurohtar (if that is okay with you, Turin) and on the Eastern side toward the sea will be Erumelmo and Elerosse.

Now, Iri and Elfmaiden, you can either divide the families you are with, or one of you can take the west with Elnaira and Taurohtar and one of you can be on the Eastern border with Erumelmo and Elerosse.

Do let me know here.
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Iri
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: June 16, 2007 10:05
Arquen,Lian, and Tulonka will travel the Eastern border, towards the sea, with Erumelmo and Elerosse
Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: June 16, 2007 02:32
Thanks for letting me know, Iri.
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Erumelmo
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: June 19, 2007 01:08
Turin, as far as I know there weren’t any wagons or livestock, such as horses, that accompanied Fingolfin’s host out of Valinor. They were alone. But I shall still put it out as a question here and see if I missed out something.

So if anyone who is reading this has a thought or a fact that they can contribute, please do so. Thank you in advance.

Also, elves did not sink into the snow, because the elements of nature did not affect them in the same manner as they did mortals. I have tried to rectify it by a conversation with Elnaira - if that is okay with you, Turin. If you want to rectify your post and change it, I'll change mine accordingly, but you don't have to - let me know if Elnaira's interaction with Taurohtar works for you.

Elfmaiden, Erumelmo’s brother’s name is Elerossë.

And his wound is about to be infected. There is a piece of an arrow imbedded in his flesh and it would have to be cut out. So that would entail a surgical procedure of some finesse. I thought that Rilnen would bandage the wound but not tell Elerossë about it and then confer with Liantassë and at the next halt of the march, they both would do a minor surgery and get it removed.

Iri, there was a problem with your post as I was using it as a reference for writing Elerossë’s part – please correct the typo “redound”. I cannot understand what that means.

Elmaiden & Iri, Elerossë will need medical treatment for the better part of the journey. As you know from his character's history in the database, he won't survive the trip, but I have yet to decide whether the infection will be the cause of his death. (I have thought of him falling into a crevasse - or the sea - but I am unsure. Will think about it as the time comes, but I have grown fond of him Alas!)
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Iri
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: June 19, 2007 01:27
Erumelmo, "redound" means to contribute to../advance

Having read Elerossë's profile I figured he was dying by the wound, but whatever you decide. I would like to keep him around lol

I have edited my post in line to your recent post and added a bit more to go indepth with the situation. Re-read through it and see if it is to your liking.

[Edited on 19/6/2007 by Iri]
TurinTurimbar
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Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: June 19, 2007 01:49
I included the wagons and wains thing because it would only make sense for such a host to have them with them to carry those supplies that the elves couldn't carry on their backs. i.e. large tents and wooden poles along with things such as crafting tools for blacksmiths and the like. However, I am willing to edit it if you wish. As for the conversation, it works just fine for me.

[Edited on 20/6/2007 by TurinTurimbar]
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