Welcome Guest 

Register

Forum Home » Roleplaying » Out of Character Discussion » OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
1234567
Author Topic:
ElfmaidenofLorien
Council Member
Posts: 2701
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: August 06, 2007 09:58
that sounds great to me Erumelmo. That can be where Rauron would be wounded then, and I'm guessing some people would come to see what he become of them and find him. Sounds good.

I think the council should dicuss, as has already been said, food rations and the length of their walks. I don't know if they would discuss anything about the death of the elf that Arquen watched, but I thought I pop it in for thought.

I'm thinking Mithwen will probably die after Elerosse because she'll be so worried about Rauron, maybe she'll die before they return with him, I'm still not really sure.
'Not even the gods above can separate the two of us, no nothing can come between you and I.'
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: August 29, 2007 02:09
Hello, everyone.


I have been out of town for the past two weeks or so, therefore couldn't catch up with anything new here. I see that Turin posted a while back.

Has anyone heard from Iri? Will wait to hear from her before I put in my post. She did say that she was caught up, but that was a while ago.

Hope everyone's well.
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
ElfmaidenofLorien
Council Member
Posts: 2701
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: September 01, 2007 02:27
I haven't seen Iri about either.

I'm good, thanks, Erumelmo. I hope you had a nice trip.
'Not even the gods above can separate the two of us, no nothing can come between you and I.'
TurinTurimbar
Council Member
Posts: 69
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: September 11, 2007 01:38
I was reading through the posts in the OOC and found a note in Iri's last reply saying to go one without her.
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: September 14, 2007 04:06
Yep, I know. I have been a bit busy with work as well, so I have not had a chance to write in. Will do so soon.
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
TurinTurimbar
Council Member
Posts: 69
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: September 14, 2007 02:05
Ok, that's fine because I won't ever know how much time I'll have with having three extremely tough classes this semester.
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: September 16, 2007 03:24
I understand perfectly... but I shall be posting soon...and Elfmaiden and I will carry on. Hopefully Iri shall return soon.
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
ElfmaidenofLorien
Council Member
Posts: 2701
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: September 22, 2007 02:23
I'll definately be around to post...I'm not going anywhere...and though life is busy I usually can get on the computer at least once a day.
'Not even the gods above can separate the two of us, no nothing can come between you and I.'
TurinTurimbar
Council Member
Posts: 69
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: October 21, 2007 08:37
School is taking up less time than I had originally thought it would and I now have more time to post.
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: October 21, 2007 01:59
ARgh!
It has been a long time indeed!

Turin, I am glad to see you are around. I hope Elfmaiden is still around as well.
We have waited for Iri a while now - and I don't think we should wait any longer. I'll begin posting again. But if one of you would like to start off after this long-drawn out sabbatical, then please feel free to set the dice rolling, so to speak!
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Maralyn_Imladiel
Council Member
Posts: 86
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 06, 2007 07:08
Salutations!

After chancing upon Erumelmo' ad in the Middle Earth Advertiser, I thought I'd drop in and offer my writing skills--limited as they are. I'm intrigued by the idea behind Conquering Helcaraxë, and would be honored to take part in it. I'm not asking for a major role--just something that fits in with the storyline. None of my current characters are quite right for this RP, so naturally I shall have to create a new one if I am allowed to join. I'm open to pretty much anything, so if a certain type of character is needed, then just let me know. I have a few ideas up my sleeve, but shall keep them to myself for the present.

One thing you guys should probably know about me is that I've never taken part in an RPG set during the Silmarillion; I'm horrible with history, and even worse with remembering names. Bearing that in mind, please excuse any historical/geographical errors on my part. This is all quite new to me--I've only ever played Sindarin characters--but I'm always willing to learn and am looking forward to this RP, if I indeed end up joining.

Thanks for reading.
TurinTurimbar
Council Member
Posts: 69
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 07, 2007 02:34
Welcome and thanks for joining! As far as the history and geography thing goes, all you have to do is ask and we can help with that. As for your character, I don't think it would really matter what type of character because there were elves of all kinds on the trip across helcaraxe. Just as long as your character is Noldorian.
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 07, 2007 11:29
Hello, Maralyn,

Thanks for taking the time to go through the threads and for writing in. We would love to have you on board, and Turin has already replied to a couple of your questions.

I must reiterate though that the posts have to be canon and yes, a bit of research does go into the writing of the posts here. But as Turin has already mentioned, you can always feel free to just ask away in the OOC thread and one of us - or all of us - will have opinions/suggestions!

Have you gone through the posts on 'Conquering Helcaraxë' to get a general idea of the writing and characters already involved? If so, then all you have to do is create your character[s] and set them in the story line. Since a whole host of Elves followed Nolofinwë (Fingolfin) out on the sheets of ice, we can have a lot of families come into the main story line at different points in time.

If you need any help, pm me or just write in with your queries here! All the best!
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Maralyn_Imladiel
Council Member
Posts: 86
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 08, 2007 11:04
Thanks for the warm welcome, both of you! I've created two characters: Eärlindë and Ondotano. I hope they meet up to standards--they are my first Noldorin characters.

I've gone through the posts on Conquering Helcaraxë and have several ideas on how to introduce my characters. Please excuse the amount of time it may (and probably will) take me to post; I'm a perfectionist and tend to delete everything I've written until I am satisfied with its outcome.
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 09, 2007 01:58
The characters have begun to take form. They are lovely.

To break the sabbatical that the thread has fallen into, should I be the first one to post? If anyone else is ready with a post please go ahead and put it up.
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
TurinTurimbar
Council Member
Posts: 69
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 09, 2007 04:37
You should probably post because I was the last one to post; however, I have edited my last post a bit.
Maralyn_Imladiel
Council Member
Posts: 86
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 11, 2007 10:00
Before I write my post, I have two questions: firstly, how long has the company of Nolofinwë been travelling thus far? And secondly, did night exist in Valinor before the Two Trees were destroyed?
Thanks.
TurinTurimbar
Council Member
Posts: 69
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 11, 2007 10:39
Erumelmo will correct me if I'm wrong, but the company has just set out onto the Helcaraxe proper and is still far from the end. To answer your second question, the only light there is right now is the light from the stars and the occasional aurora borealis as the company is no longer in Valinor.
Maralyn_Imladiel
Council Member
Posts: 86
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 12, 2007 07:53
What I meant was, did day and night cycles exist in Valinor before the Two Trees were destroyed? I'm aware that there's only starlight now.

[Edited on 11/12/2007 by Maralyn_Imladiel]
TurinTurimbar
Council Member
Posts: 69
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 12, 2007 10:39
It wasn't exactly what one would call day and night, one tree waxed while the other waned.
Maralyn_Imladiel
Council Member
Posts: 86
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 12, 2007 02:16
Got it. Thanks for your help.
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 13, 2007 04:07

The first sources of light for all of Arda were two enormous Lamps, Illuin, the silver one to the north and Ormal, the golden one to the south. These were cast down and destroyed by Melkor. Afterward, the Valar went to Valinor and Yavanna sang into existence the Two Trees, silver Telperion and golden Laurelin. Telperion was referred to as male and Laurelin female. The Trees sat on the hill Ezellohar located outside Valimar. They grew in the presence of all of the Valar, watered by the tears of Nienna.

Each tree was a source of light: Telperion's silver and Laurelin's gold. Telperion had dark leaves (silver on one side) and his silvery dew was collected as a source of water and of light. Laurelin had pale green leaves trimmed with gold, and her dew was likewise collected by Varda.

One "day" lasted twelve hours. Each Tree, in turn, would give off light for seven hours (waxing to full brightness and then slowly waning again), so that at one hour each of "dawn" and "dusk" soft gold and silver light would be given off together.

Jealous Melkor enlisted the help of the giant spider-creature Ungoliant (the first great spider and ancestor of Shelob) to destroy the Two Trees. Concealed in a cloud of darkness, Melkor struck each Tree and the insatiable Ungoliant devoured whatever life and light remained in them.

Again Yavanna sang and Nienna wept, but they succeeded only in reviving Telperion's last flower (to become the Moon) and Laurelin's last fruit (to become the Sun). These were assigned to lesser spirits, male Tilion and female Arien, after the 'genders' of the Trees themselves. This is why, in The Lord of the Rings, the Sun is usually referred to as "she" and the moon as "he".

However the true light of the Trees, before their poisoning by Ungoliant, was said to now reside only in the three Silmarils.

Because the Elves that first came to Valinor especially loved Telperion, Yavanna made a second tree like it to stand in the city of Tirion where the Vanyar and Noldor dwelt together at first. This tree, named Galathilion, was identical to Telperion except that it gave no light of its own. It had many seedlings, one of which was named Celeborn, and planted on the isle of Tol Eressëa.

===============
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Maralyn_Imladiel
Council Member
Posts: 86
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 13, 2007 04:27
Thanks for the wealth of information, Erumelmo! :love: I shall try to bear it all in mind as I write.

Speaking of which, I'm terribly sorry it's taking me so long to post; it's just so hard to write that dratted opening sentence...
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 14, 2007 02:18
Most welcome. And take your time.

Elfmaiden, Turin have also to post. I am sure they are working on their posts as well. You can put in your post now or later. Though I am anxious to get the thread moving - the poor thing has been neglected of late.

[Edited on 15/11/2007 by Erumelmo]
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Maralyn_Imladiel
Council Member
Posts: 86
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 16, 2007 06:00
My muse has returned! I have written a very rough first draft, which I am in the process of modifying. It should be ready to post sometime early next week, at the latest.
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 16, 2007 02:30
Cool. Can't wait to read it.

Elfmaiden? Turin? Do you guys have your posts ready?
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
TurinTurimbar
Council Member
Posts: 69
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 17, 2007 04:07
I do not have a post ready as I was the last one to post; however, I have edited my last post a bit.
Maralyn_Imladiel
Council Member
Posts: 86
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 19, 2007 05:58
Nearly finished with my post; just popping in with another question (surprised?)

Am I correct in assuming that the elves crossing Helcaraxë built small campfires along the way? If so, then what would they use for fuel? Judging by their location, I’m guessing that any supplies of wood they had to begin with wouldn’t last very long, and using dung as fuel was ruled out in another OOC post, as the elves didn’t have animals with them. Therefore, making campfires as sources of warmth would prove difficult after awhile. Of course, they have their furs to keep warm...

Sorry if that was confusing, and thanks for reading. My week has been full of deadlines, but I’m trying my best to finish the post and get it up.
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 19, 2007 07:51
As far as I know there were no chances of a fire, because Helcaraxe was a wasteland, and ferocious winds would blow over the open spaces. So I am assuming it would just be the furs and body warmth that would keep the host going.

I am also working on maps from the Atlas of Middle-Earth, and a theory. Will put up shortly - regarding the time span the host spent traversing the ice.

[Edited on 19/11/2007 by Erumelmo]
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 19, 2007 12:20
I have already spoken of this in a message posted on 23/6/2007 at 04:25 AM - and I do so again:

According to the Map detailing the flight of the Noldor, in the Atlas of Middle-Earth, I have made a few summations. And in the beginning of this thread, I believe I have made a few errors. I am attaching the map again.

Image

Before I begin let me just explain that I took a trek the other day and to cover a space of 13 miles, it took me 4 hours at a brisk walk.

13 miles = 4 hours of walking.

Now according to the Scale given within the Atlas it would take a person the following time limits to walk an expanse of the said number of miles:

from Alqualonde - Finarfin return (the Prophecy):
1600 miles = 492 hours - 20 days and 19 nights.

from the Prophecy Point - Helcaraxe boundary:
1050 miles = 323 hours - 13 days and 12 nights.

But the journey from Alqualonde to the western borders of Helcaraxe must have taken them (if the maps are to be believed) just over a month to complete.

from Helcaraxe West to East:
100 miles = 31 hours to walk. (2 days and one night)

from Helcaraxe to Losgar:
300 miles = 92 hours - 4 days and 3 nights.

So the ENTIRE journey from Alqualonde to the Firth comes upto the summation of 39 - 40 days!!!

The journey over Helcaraxe actually is just about 2 days' walk.

===================================

Of course, that wouldn't be possible for we are taking into consideration the barrenness of the place and the weather conditions.

Not to mention the enormous nature of the host that crossed the terrain, we can easily attribute a larger time span for each of the above given durations.

If we calculate it as TEN times more than what I have deduced it would stand so:

from Alqualonde - Finarfin return (the Prophecy):
1600 miles = 200 days of travel estimate (approx 7 months).

from the Prophecy Point - Helcaraxe boundary:
1050 miles = 323 hours - 130 days of travel estimate (approximately 4 months).

from Helcaraxe West to East:
100 miles = 31 hours to walk - ONE FORTNIGHT estimate!

from Helcaraxe to Losgar:
300 miles = 92 hours - 38 days estimate.

===================================

The Timelines mention this:
FIRST AGE [Years of the Trees]

# 4997 - Melkor returns to Angband, and tries to take Beleriand: First Battle of Beleriand is fought; Denethor of the Green-elves slain and the Havens of the Falas are besieged. The Noldor arrive at Helcaraxë; Fëanor and his host betray the sons of Indis and sail across, then burn the ships. Return of the Noldor to Middle-earth. Morgoth's army attacks Fëanor. Dagor-nuin-Giliath ("the Battle under Stars") is fought. Fëanor is slain by Balrogs in sight of Angband. Maedhros taken captive.
# The Valar hide Valinor behind the Enchanted Isles and raise the Pelóri mountains to greater heights; they begin devising the Moon and Sun.
# 5000 - The remainder of the Noldor arrives in Middle-earth; the Moon arises.

The time line mentions this as a span of 3 years by the Years of the Trees:

and it gets better:

1 year of the trees = 9.582 years of the sun.

1 yt = 3500 days of the sun

3 yt - 10,500 days of the sun respectively.

===================================

This timeline irks me - therefore, I keep coming back to it. The timeline of the Atlas, makes the most sense actually, because I cannot imagine someone crossing a place like the Arctic region for a period of years on end - then again we are speaking of the Elves - but even for Elves it would have been suicide - and hardly any would have managed to survive, due to the cold and the harshness of the winds, not to forget the paucity of food and the unpredictable nature of the Grinding Ice!

Moreover, they have ALREADY been travelling over Araman, for nearly a year before they even reach the borders of Helcaraxe! Also this will give us reason to believe that since they have spent so much time in travel, they have gathered what they would be needing to cross Helcaraxe. A good amount of furs, a certain amount of wood to kindle necessary, but small, fires, food that can be dried and carried with them.

Therefore, I think the duration of the journey over Helcaraxe should be around 15 days - and the journey over Lammoth should be around 40 days.

Please let me know if all the writers on this thread are okay with this idea. Accordingly, I shall have to explain that my character, Elerosse, had a wound which has become septic over time because of the piece of arrow still embedded in his flesh... Ah well, but that is for another spate of re-thinking. Please let me know what you people think - and also, if anyone reading this thread has any input whatsoever, please feel free to write in with suggestions or viewpoints.

"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
TurinTurimbar
Council Member
Posts: 69
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 20, 2007 02:31
Wow, coming from the perspective of a hiker your idea makes a lot of sense altough, you should add a few more days to account for any wagons and the fact that they would be slowed down a bit by packs. I have no problem accepting this theory.
Maralyn_Imladiel
Council Member
Posts: 86
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 20, 2007 04:35
Woah, looks like you've dug up quite a bit of research, Erumelmo! The new amount of time it would take for the elves to cross Helcaraxë makes sense; however, I am inclined to agree with Turin about adding a few extra days. Moving such a multitude across such difficult terrain would be no easy task, obviously.

Thanks for answering my question, by the way.
Erumelmo
Council Member
Posts: 293
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 20, 2007 01:17
Yes, I do agree with you both. I have organised treks, which have taken us via deep foliage as well as amateur mountain climbing - and the groups I have been in have amounted to about a 100 people. But I know how difficult it is to manage all of them simultaneously. Therefore, I have broken up the multitude of Elves
under three leaderships.

Moreover, I have taken into consideration the fact that they will have travelled at a lesser pace than I. Naturally! since their excursions are through Araman, and after a battle with the Teleri! But, you have to remember throughout the trip, through the wastelands of Araman, Feanor (pardon me for not using the accents, but I am writing the message here directly) was sailing beside the host, close to the coastline - for about 2,400 miles! And they are Elves! Not mere mortals like me.

I would assume since there was a maddening haste on the part of Feanor - which ultimately took over and he abandoned Fingolfin and the rest - he would urge the people to move faster!

Yet I have taken everything into consideration and have multiplied the normal amount of time it would take for a trek by TEN. And came up with the figures that I have put forth. Remember, Helcaraxe is just a space of a 100 miles, and in normal accounting, it would take four days of walking with plenty of time to rest in between.

But if you wish, we can extend the time for the crossing JUST over Helcaraxe from 15 days to 30 days.

The Moon shall rise the moment the host sets foot onto Beleriand, and I would also like to continue onwards until the rising of the Sun seven days later within this thread.

I would surely wish to continue with my characters onward - and you guys are more than willing to join me - but that would happen in another thread which I am already planning.
"Why? Because I'm afraid and he gives me courage."
TurinTurimbar
Council Member
Posts: 69
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 20, 2007 03:03
Of course, I would love to continue my character in another thread.
ElfmaidenofLorien
Council Member
Posts: 2701
Send Message
Avatar
Post RE: OOC for Conquering Helcaraxë (KEEP)
on: November 21, 2007 07:01
hey Erumelmo...I just came in to say that I really don't think I can continue with this thread. I'm very sad about it, but I just don't have time right now and I don't want to hinder you at all. Maybe we'll be in another RP at an easier time for me, but I've got to leave for now.

If you want I could make some sort of exit post, or else my characters can just disappear into the crowd.

Anyway, thank you for letting me have a great time in this RP for the time I was involved. Again, I'm very sorry. :sob:
'Not even the gods above can separate the two of us, no nothing can come between you and I.'
1234567
Members Online
Print Friendly, PDF & Email